jonbro6956

Raced my fist auto cross yesterday and it was a blast. My first run out, I did a 49, which was slower than the average time (being about 48). I was nervous as could be, so that was the biggest factor. But, the next run, I ran a 47.9, then a 47.7. The biggest thing I really noticed was that it was understeering in really tight corners, which was probably my fault because I was entering it too fast, which I couldnt help myself.

In the afternoon runs, I got a tip from the fastest guy running telling me to just run in 2nd gear, so I tried that. Right of the bat, I ran a 47.5 and a 47.2. The last run, I was told to shift in to 2nd right after the first turn instead of right before it, and I ended up with a 46.6 on my last run. What really made my day is that I ran a 46.6 with a completly stock RX8, while all of the STIs and EVOs, modified and with slicks, were running low to mid 45s. So, in my mind, I felt like I gave it my best and I did all that my car could, and I if were a little moddified and running slicks, I could have been running around those guys.

Next race is in about a month, and I am getting a seat to hold me in a little better and to drop the height a bit (my helmet hits the liner) and probably a new set of wheels with tires. I also am thinking about getting strut tower bars and maybe some brake pads.

Skinless

Congratulations on your first autocross. If you haven't done it yet, I'd recommend a performance alignment. It really helped reduce the amount of push I had during my first event. Around here it runs about $100.

Imp

Welcome to the addiction!

Please do not fall into that trap. Yes, it is a trap that novices fall into thinking that it's the car (and mods to it) that make it go faster. That is true only to a point. It's the "loose nut behind the wheel" that needs the greatest amount of tuning. (http://www.autocross.com/evolution)

I would save your $$ for the time being and work on becoming a better driver with what you have and in the class you're in. If you think it's the car that's slow and that it needs modifications, let an instructor take the car out and see how you stack up against them (if your club allws this). You'll be surprised.

It is said that autocross is 10% car, 90% driver.

--kC

jonbro6956

I know it is the driver that wins the race. But if you read my post, I felt like I pushed my car as fast I I could. I know there is improvment, and I was improving on every run. It just surprised me that these guys racing for years with these modified cars, were not running that fast. All I know is that the RX8 really surprised me on what it could do and I know that I could push it harder. I just would like to fix the understeer becuase I felt like that was what was holding me back at my skill level right now.

I am hooked on this sport now and am planning on running every event that I possibly can to improve my skills.

clyde

Where was this and what club was it with? Do you have a link to results? Your location says that you're in NoVA, and the highest level of comeptition that you'll find in the area (and probably the largest courses) is with the DC Region of the SCCA. The region's Solo web site is here. October is our last event of the year and it's SCCA members only.

Almost regardless of where you start from talent/skill wise, there is almost certainly room for a lot of improvement before it's worth modding the car. If you want to get better, leave the car alone. If you just want to have fun, go ahead and mod...but understand that you may have to undo some of the mods if you want to run in a class where the car can be competitive.

jonbro6956

This event was with the Capital Driving Club (http://members.***.net/capitaldrivingclub/) Sadly, they have not posted the results yet. We left before the last hat, so I did not see the other RX8 run and am anxious to see what they ran.

The biggest thing that I want is a new seat. My head hitting the roof sucked. The only reason I want new wheels and tires is so that I dont mess up the good ones I have now (my car has 7K miles on it) I have to take my car in for the brake recall, so the pads will be replaced any ways and I figured if I give them some extra $$$, they may put the mazdaspeed pads on. I know that my RX7s handleing improved a good deal when I did the front/rear strut bars, so I figured it may help the 8. I have access to some free ones so I figured I would try them out. They are easy enough to switch out if I decide that I dont like them on.

mwood

First off, it's great to hear that you came away from your first autocross fired up! I had the same experience when I started last year and haven't looked back

Second, I would agree with not modifying the car, until you figure out where you want to run. If you want to run with the Nation's most competitive autocrossers, you'll gravitate towards SCCA events. The RX8 is THE car for their B Stock class. Does it make sense to modify your way out of a class where the car is competitive, to start? All you need is a good alignment and your understeer issues will go away. Add a set of DOT R tires and you're ready to run with the big boys, where you'll have a chance to really see how fast you are! Who knows, you may be able to immediately run competitive times. If, after a few events, you decide you want to modify the car, at least you'll have a good baseline to determine what you are starting with and an idea as to where you want to take it.

Third, why is it that as soon as someone says they're a "newbie" autocrosser, most experienced autocrossers immediately jump to the conclusion that their driving needs immediate attention? Some have good skills, to begin with, and would benefit more from setting the car up properly and driving it than spending money on an Evolution school. Maybe once they "hit the wall" and are stagnating, it makes more sense to do a school?

Imp

Because a good foundation in the sport is more important over spending money on 'mods'. You have to learn how to use the equipment before you start making changes to it. Or you run into the case of making changes for the sake of making changes and not knowing if they made you better, or worse.

Sure, there are good drivers that show up out of nowhere and excel however experience has shown those are few and far between.

If you know how to do it right (sarcasm) from the beginning, you won't take the school and say 'gee, I wish I knew that last year/couple years ago' (which is one of the top comments that I've heard from people at events after they take the school.)

I didn't take the Evo school for 4-5 years after I started auto-xing... and I'm one of them who did say "why didn't I do this sooner?"

Would you prefer we sit here and say "Hello Mr. New Auto-xer. 1st thing you want to do is spend a couple grand on tires, wheels, and do an alignment." And then point and laugh when they cord a $1000 set of tires after 2-3 events because they're over driving? No. I wouldn't want anyone to do that to me, that's for sure.

Learn the basics. Learn the course. Learn the elements of the course. Learning all that is key to the foundations of going fast. The car is secondary to getting a good time... the driver has to know what to look for (in ANY car) to be able to GET that fast time. (Much like any instrcutor being able to hop into any novices car, run at 80-90% and run a time thats seconds faster than the novice.... it's not the car... which is why many say 'learn to drive better' over 'mod the car'.)

Yes, an alignment is a good thing. No arguing that.

--kC

dknv

To echo Imp, please do not fall into that trap, comparing results with other cars can be deceiving, although after you have more data it can be useful. But for example, sometimes it is the course design that shows off the RX-8's abilities ('against' other cars like the STi, Evo). Sometimes it is the environmental conditions (temperature, rain). Did the guys running race tires have new tires, or old worn race tires? What were the speeds, and were the other turbo cars able to get on their boost?

There are so many combinations of factors that affect your results, but it's really cool that you ran some good times and got better through the day. There's the hook that reels you in and makes you want to do it again, because you know with another try, it can be a little faster yet.

What jumps out at me the most to support the idea of getting seat time vs. modding the car first, is that you mentioned that someone gave you a tip about running the course in 2nd gear; followed by another tip about where to shift, to improve your time. Also you mentioned "that it was understeering in really tight corners, which was probably my fault because I was entering it too fast, which I couldnt help myself.". When I first got my first RX-8, I did this too, and I experienced understeer too, whereas a better driver in my car, entering a turn properly, did not have understeer. (Team will probably say I still do it. ) It is very eye-opening to get a good driver in your car to see its true potential, even without any mods.

Hopefully others will chime in with some ideas for you, to help with the helmet clearance situation. Brake pads might be a good idea if you're going to track the car, but the stock ones work pretty well for most autox situations. Good luck!

jonbro6956

I didnt mean for this post to flame up like this. But thanks for the info so far.

I agree that it is the driver 90%. My friend out there with a new Elise was running high 45s when that car is capable of way quicker times. He just couldn't do it.

All I was trying to state with the "modded STIs and EVOs runnig 45s" statement was that I couldnt believe that the RX8 was that good of a track car. With my skill level, if my car was moddified a bit like theirs, I believe that I wouldve been right with them. Now if I had known my RX8 better, again, this was my first time pushing this car, and had some more time at the track, I may have been able to drop down to a high 45 or so. I went from a high 49 to a high 46. I think that I picked up what I was doing wrong pretty quickly and adjusted. The biggest thing that helped me was just watching the faster guys lines. Then I tried mimicking them, which helped. Same with asking people how they were dong it.

I am planning on taking a class at the beginning of next year, but for now, I am just going for the fun of it since this club really just does it for fun. I also recorded every one of my runs and it has been very useful for me seeing what I did wrong.

Does any one elses helmet rub the liner? I am only 6'. Maybe I just sit up to straight.

Imp

You call this flaming? Oh dear. I haven't seen anything that could be considered flaming in here. You might need a thicker skin if you think these posts are inflammatory.

--KC

jonbro6956

I did not say this was flaming, I said that this topic is starting to flame up.

Thank you all so far for suggesting what I should do from this point. Like mwood, I am fired up and I cannot wait to improve on my driving. I have ridden with one of my friends with a spec-miata and it is amazing how he can race that thing. He also rally crosses and again, amazing at what he can do with his car.

I think that the only thing that I am going to do for the next race is get me another set of stock wheels with tires and try to figure out what I can do about my helmet.

edj

If you have a sunroof, I can believe it.

You can try leaning the seatback back but that does not put you in a very
good seating position.

Or learn to drive with your head tilted to the side...

PS. As everybody else has pointed out, if you have decided you want to take
this sport seriously, don't make any changes to the car until you know what class
you want to end up in. Changing the seat puts you in Street Prepared or one of
the Street Touring classes.

jonbro6956

Sideways, like I was . I would much rather not have to do that from now on.

I do have a sun roof. I was sitting straigter than I normally do, as well as sitting a little closer to the wheel.

I do not care what class I race in since I dont care about winning, I just like racing. Put me up against that fastest cars there are, I dont care. I will still give it my 100% and at the end of the day, I will always think that I can do better, but I did my best.

CosmosMpower

Glad to hear you had a good time, it's pretty good to be within a few seconds of the other cars. But a few seconds is quite a bit on a 45 second course so you still have some time to make up, autocross is a sport of 1/100th's or even 1/1000th's.

In any case, I just got into an 05 RX8 sport myself and I haven't made any modifications to it nor will I until I get a good overall feeling for the car. You won't realize many gains until you have a good baseline and just can't lose anymore time in current form. As far as understeering just try not to overcook the entry, it's very important to go slow in fast out and the RX8 is stable enough to get on the power pretty early without getting sideways compared to some other cars like the S2000.

I'm about 6'0 exactly and my head hit the roof as well. What you need to do is lower your seat all the way and slide it back a little further. I usually like to sit quite close to the wheel but scooting back an inch or so gives you more headroom as does lowering your seat all the way. Also if you're wearing a closed face helemt try and remove your visor or close it to gain a little bit of extra clearance. Also if you still can't fit see if you can trade for a base or sport model. I actually brought my helmet to dealerships to see if I could fit in a sunroof model and I couldn't.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

It is always cool to see new people come out, even if they are old farts like mwood. Even though you say you don't care what class you are in and just want to run for fun you should hold off on mods until you are 100% sure. Lots of people start for fun then get into the competition mode only to find out some silly mod they did puts them in a class where they get killed. Once you have a few events under your belt start looking at what some of the other RX8 guys in various classes have for mods. The RX8 can run in B Stock, Street Touring Ultra, B Street Prepared and Street Mod in a still somewhat street-able condition. So then you figure out where you want to end up and empty your wallet.

clyde

Because it's usually the most accurate and helpful conclusion. I'll be the first to admit getting burned in that assumption before. Who would have thought that a guy in his second full year of autocrossing could make a 330i work in STX? When Basham started talking about doing it, we all told him that he was nuts...but he did it anyway and did great. Of course, he also took about a thousand Evo schools in those two years, at least one event every weekend, and oh...at the time he started on that path, he hadn't bothered telling anyone that he had a pretty extensive (and successful) history in motocross racing.

Yeah, it happens. But it's rare.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

You're still on your first autox, right?

clyde

If you listen to random advice on the internet, what are you gonna get?

:p

willhave8

Does any one elses helmet rub the liner? I am only 6'. Maybe I just sit up to straight.[/QUOTE]

Short Answer -- YES, 5'10". Sunroof causes a poor position on the track. seat bottom all the way down and seat back tilted back balanced by keeping the entire seat 'closer' to the pedals to keep the arm length reasonable -- based on HPDE time but still applies... But I have to say, that since HPDE's are not competitive, after the first grin, I don't really notice it. Every instructor I have had does however...

ChopsMcgraw

6'2" here, helmet rubs with no sunroof, just use it as an extra bracing point

jonbro6956

Me seat is already all the way down. I will try moving the seat back a little more then and see what happens at the next event.

CosmosMpower, I am not trading my car in. It took me a while to find this one.

clyde

Interesting course

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...stAutoXvid.flv

There are better options around than CDC...

GULAMAN

ummm....Looks like the cone budget was pretty tiny. time to go 'borrow' some more from the local DOT yard!!

Imp

Agreed. That looks like Nascar in 1st gear. Auto-x is about turning left & RIGHT. I see one right turn... just one. Find another club to play with.

If that were the only game in town, I think I would have walked away as all the left turns would have eaten through my tires really quick.

I don't know about that.... with a lot that small, more cones would have just made it more visually confusing.

--kC