RacerBill

I really like the E36 series M3's and now that they are affordeable I was wondering how they would do against the RX8 in autocross. I believe they are classed in B Stock but I never seem to see anybody autocross them in the stock class.

Can anybody compare and contrast the 2 cars?

Imp

The M3 is slower than the RX8.

--kC

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Back in the day Tunnell could put away Kozlak in the 968..... None of the current E36 M3s have found that speed. Not sure if the 968 is faster now or if the M3 guys just don't have the setup and driving skill of Bob. The M3 is a nice car but for not much more money you will get an RX8 with a warranty and we know it can win.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

back then the stock class M3 benefited from the camber-compensating BFG tire, it went away and so did the M3's stock class potential

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

i know E36 M3 had valve tapping issues when hard cornering. look it up on the bimmer forums.

CosmosMpower

M3, the reason that it doesn't race in B stock is because it's camber limited from the factory and the car understeers badly without at least 3 degrees of negative front camber. I believe with both cars in STU form the M3 is running faster times.

True, for a few more dollars you could have the RX8, but the E36 M3 is 10 years old. They are still holding value at 14000-20000 for a decent mileage S52 car, the RX8 is going to be worth less than 14,000 before 2010. I want to cry everytime I think about going from the sports car with the best residual to one of the worst.

Also I find it ironic that I sold my 9 year M3 for fear of maintenance or a breakdown to buy a new 05 car with a 4 year warranty. In the first 3 months of ownership I've already had to use it 3 times and have had a blinking CEL for no reason autocrossing it while I never had a problem with the M3 flogging the crap out of it at the track with 10X the mileage of my current RX8.

CosmosMpower

Almost all E36 6 cylinder cars have that issue, it's actually just the lifters ticking and it's harmless. Most cars that do that are usually a bit low on oil and a half quart overfill takes care of the problem. Besides how can you argue with 215 rwhp, 210 rwtq stock with an intake/crank pulley/exhaust getting you to the 220-225 mark.

I will say the 5 speed transmission in that car is completely crap though, it's like rowing a boat and 2nd to 3rd is horribly vague and badly spaced.

RacerBill

Wonder why it is that the RX8 does not hold its value well? I know the gas mileage sucks, but that can't be the only reason. I rencently saw a resale value survey and the Honda S2000 was at the top of the list followed by the MINI and some BMW's. What gives?

John V

iTrader: (1)

The E36 M3 is still a great sedan for the street and correctly set up (even stock-legal) it is a boatload of fun. There are things that make me really miss my M3 sometimes.

But the RX-8 is significantly lighter, has a far better suspension and can fit a wider tire. It's a better car for stock class and, in my opinion, STU.

CosmosMpower

I think sheer volume has something to do with it paired with dealers dumping their cars for up to 10K off MSRP. The S2000 and M3 have far less production numbers so the resale is better. I've had the pleasure of owning all 3 cars though and they're great in their own right.

MazdaRich

I think this forum isn't helping the resale value of the car either. I see more M3s driving around than RX-8s, generally. I don't think resale value is that big of a deal considering you can get a new one for about $20k.

But yeah the RX-8 is probably the best of the two, mainly because it's younger and a little bit lighter. The rotary has obvious center of gravity benefits. Otherwise the M3 gets better torque and it's easier to make camber adjustments on it.

CosmosMpower

Actually the M3 has ZERO camber adjustment up front (only toe), and minimal adjustment in the rear.

MazdaRich

Okay I meant STU trim, not stock.

clyde

And in STU form, the RX-8 can get more camber than it needs.

As for resale, the M3 has that Roundel on the hood, an ///M badge and it's a 3 Series. All three of those things are going to strengthen its resale value no matter how good or bad the car actually is. The RX-8 has none of those things going for it.

That said, from the prices people are asking for used RX-8s and what they're apparently going for, there's nothing to be sad about. It's doing pretty well compared to other cars in its class. In fact, it's doing a lot better than I expected when I bought mine in 2003, so I'm pretty happy. Compared to the E36 M3, the value of an RX-8 is going to drop faster because it's newer. A two year old car is going to depreciate faster than a 10 year old car. Period.

takahashi

I beat my mate's 997 Carrera in autocross by 1 sec, M3 will then be no match. The same mate in the same car is 8 sec faster on a proper long track.

Cito

In general, the internet has fugged up resale value on cars. It gives one an unrealistic sense of supply versus demand when you are able to see all of the available cars for sale in the entire country from the comfort of your living room.

Sellers who then panic when they see all the cars for sale undervalue their cars. This is great for used buyers and bad for the rest of us as well as Mazda who has leased many of these cars.

We should band together and refuse to sell our cars for under a certain value, but I am pretty sure that is against the law

PedalFaster

A well-driven 997 will beat both the RX-8 and the E36 M3 like a red-headed stepchild in both autocross and on the big track. Your mate's just not driving hard enough.

Specific to Jason's comments a few days ago: people were running the 968 stock or very close to stock in the late 90's, but my car's responded very well to suspension changes; I'd say the 968's gotten faster since Tunnell was chasing them in an M3. I don't think anyone near Tunnell's ability (driving or setup) have shown up in a Stock class E36 M3 in years, though.

takahashi

Haha I will print what you said out and show him

In fact, he is a pretty good driver. I have driven the 997, the brake is no where near us good as ours. Mine is red with 4 pot even,,,, .

Will be interested to see how much difference would I make if I can at the wheel of the 997

Having said that I like to see my mate at my home track. I am the 2nd fastest RX-8 for the whole state there (1/10th off the fastest ever time - even faster than Motor magazine's time), and plenty of RX-8 race there.

John V

iTrader: (1)

What PedalFaster said. Either you're running WAY better rubber than your friend, or your friend can't drive.

takahashi

I will print that too.

He is running the same tyre - Michellin Pilot Sports 2 that is all stock on Porsches

clyde

What kind of trophies do they have for the Austrailian HPDE Championship? I can put you in touch with a guy named "Jed" if you want to compare to what's available for the Mid-Atlantic American HPDE CHampionship.

takahashi

HPDE?
You mean production car champ?
... that is all road cage interior rip off full slick stuff?