idriverx8

Has anyone tried any after market shocks that would still keep you in B Stock? If so what kind of shocks and what were your impressions or results?

rumatt

Where's clyde?

tpryor

To the best of my knowledge, Clyde is the only one who has tried them - he prototyped a set for Koni. No one else makes any (yet), so the only other alternative would be the custom set of Konis, Penskes, Motons, etc, and that would be $4K - $5K per set.

Tokico is looking for a spring release of an adjustable replacement shock (they make the OEM shock), but I haven't seen any others...

idriverx8

Thanks Tim. I guess thats why I cant find any.

om-nc

Maybe I misread the rules, but I thought shocks were open and you could use mazdaspeed for example. They may not be damped for use w/o the shocks, but they make work well. I too, would like to know. Also, what about the RB shock? It too may be engineered with the short springs and not perform well with the stock springs.
Paul

edit I meant to say "may work well"... rusty at this stuff too, the last time I autox'd, before the 8, was with a prepped '71 240, koni's and Far performance adjustment hardware. I am still curious about the other setups out there. I am tired of being trounced by S2k...the 350 had better watch out though..
Paul

clyde

It's hard to compare since I didn't do any autocrosses with it before the Konis went in. Adjsuting rebound is a slight pain in the front of the car since the stut bar blocks access to the adjustment tabs with the Koni ****. I should soon have a tool that will allow adjustment without removing the bar. Adjusting rebound in the back is a pain. The tops of the rear shocks are in closed off chambers which prevent easy access, so the shock/spring assembly needs to be dropped to make adjustments. Because of that, Koni was planning on making the rear shocks the remove-compress-turn type. What I've found, though, is that with just unbolting the shock/spring assembly it can be lowered far enough to access the adjustment tab. Not having to totally remove it makes things better, but it's still a PITA. The last time I talked to Koni NA and explained it, they said they would try to get the production spec changed to make the rears externally adjustable. Cross your fingers.

Compression adjustments are pretty easy, but I've burned myself on the exhaust adjusting the rears between runs.

I'm pretty happy with the valving and range of adjustability, but take that with a grain of salt. I'm far from an expert and I'm certainly not such a great driver that I can take full advantage. :D

The production run will probably take place around the end of the year with availability soon after that.

idriverx8

Thanks for the info. Hopefully they will be available soon. Keep us updated.

Banannie

Clyde, I thought I saw in one of your older posts that the shocks lowered the car by ~11mm. Is that true, or did I misread?

clyde

Forgot to mention that, but yes, that's correct.

FWIW, I can also get about -1.4 degrees camber up front which seems to be a few tenths more than most people are able to get with the OEM shocks.

Banannie

A ha. That's why I got confused, then. Based on the current rules, replacement shocks need to retain the stock ride height, and I thought you were running BS. Hmmm... local events that would probably go unnoticed, but in the event I do sometime take the car to Nats I wouldn't want to be protest bait.

Do you know if Koni is planning to release shocks that meet the current rules requirements? Could that consideration be what's holding them up on releasing them?

clyde

The shocks are allowed to change ride height as long as the perch locations, etc are all the same as OEM...which they are. The ride height change is due different pressurization within the shock which is specifically allowed in the SIIR (I'd point to the section but I don't have the book at work).

tpryor

Clyde - it's in the clarifications for Stock category. Here is the text of the point in question:
=================================================
COIL SPRING PERCHES
The intent of the Stock Category allowance for alternate shock absorbers is that the dimensional characteristics of the shock absorber and spring location must remain consistent with those of the original units, as per 13.5.F. In the case of coil spring perches on aftermarket shocks, the vertical distance of the spring position above the lower shock mounting point must be no less than the distance found on the original equipment unit. If the characteristics of the shock (e.g. gas pressure) are such that this positioning results in a change in the car’s ride height, that change is permitted.
=================================================

I have the CD at work......

Banannie

Yes, my husband is on the SEB, I understand the rules. For everyone's sanity, it would be good to clarify that it's the shock valving/gas pressure that lowers your car rather than the shock itself that's lowering the car :p

clyde

You're probably right. But that would assume that I'm bright enough to make the distinction on my own without being asked. My wife would be the first to say that just ain't the case, though.

Banannie

Anyway, thanks for being Koni's guinea pig on the shocks - please keep everyone here posted on what the developments are!!!

We've had similar setup shocks (rears need to be removed to adjust) and it was an absolute nightmare. I think Koni would lose at least some sales if they go into production with that setup - I doubt Ron & I would buy that type again! But we *would* buy externally adjustable... :D

tpryor

Sorry, I am aware of who your husband is...........no offense was meant. I was just pointing out that I could get to the rule quickly and thought it would help Clyde explain the question that was being asked about running BS because of the ride height change.

I'll know better next time.

Banannie

Gosh Tim, no offense taken whatsoever - you've been awful helpful to us.

I was concerned over the legality as I was mistakenly under the impression that the shocks were lowering the car, which was not the case. I totally agree that the gas level & valving can legally change the height - although I'm a bit concerned that it would end up that low - does it compromise handling by having the valving that way? Just thinking out loud - I'm far from a shock guru!!! :p

ronbauer

"Clyde",

My concern with the car being lowered by the different gas pressure is that the compression may still be too soft.

The car needs as much help as it can from shocks to stiffen up the car. What are your thoughts on this?

I know you said you didn't run the car before putting the Konis on, so you may not be able to answer this, but just wanted your input.

Ron

clyde

I really can't say, exactly. In addition to not running the car before the Konis, my autocross experience is rather limited compared to a few of you and adjustable shocks were brand new to me this year. I really didn't start experimenting with compression until the last few events, but bumping it up seemed to have more of an effect than I had been led to expect (and I wanted to kick myself for not trying it sooner).

My experiences with the car has been a little different than some others have reported. I'm not sure if I'm getting down onto the bump stops or not like some people are describing. If I am, it's controlled and smooth enough that I don't really feel the transition. I also don't seem to have the understeer issues that a lot of people mention although I'm still using the stock front ARB.

I can tell you that on the shock dyno at full stiff compression, the fronts are about 50% stiffer and the rears are about 300% stiffer in high speed valving. Low speed, the fronts are pretty much identical up to a point and the rears are are slightly stiffer.

That may not be particularly helpful, but it's the best I can do.

ronbauer

That sounds pretty decent as far as the percentage stiffer. Since the RX8 springs are pretty soft, we really need to have a lot more compression on the shocks.

Honestly, I'm quite surprised that there are no shocks available yet for this car since it's been out for over a year now....

Ron

1975yellowBSPz

I am assuming that due to the fact that the mazdaspeed shocks are matched to the mazdaspeed springs which lower the car an inch that the ms shocks are too short to be BS legal? or is it that the valving is not complient with the stock springs. I hope this isn't covered in the forum some where i didn't find it - don't wanna be reposter guy. Also is there a preferred fsb for working with the current bs setups, ie the ms or rb etc?

Thanks!

ronbauer

I'm not sure of the shaft length on the Mazdaspeed shocks, but they should theoretically be legal. I think the big issue is that most people, myself included, don't think that the shocks are probably that much different in compression and rebound. The other option is to buy one of the high end coilover sets and use those shocks. I'm not sure how easy it'd be to make them stock class legal though. Basically, we just need to get Koni to finish their shocks up.

As far as front swaybars, I think the Racing Beat one is the only way to go right now. All of the other bars that I've seen aren't much bigger than stock. The RB one is quite a bit bigger. It's also reasonably priced, and the red looks way cool! ;-)

Ron

AlexCisneros

I own the Tanabe front/rear bars... I've also driven cars with the RB bars. I personally think the Tanabe bar is the way to go. They are made from chromoly, and while I can't speak as to the specs of the RB bar... There are factors other than bar diameter that can affect stiffness (wall gauge, material, etc). I personally feel that the Tanabe bar is a better piece (though it isn't pretty red ).

VividRacing.com

wow! Looks like alot of future suspension purchase's may be made. Is your stock rx8 suspension not sufficient? To much body roll? Check out our RX8 section over at vivid. We carry alot of suspension parts for your rx-8. Get rid of that body roll and get some Coilovers! Its a night and day difference for anyone that seriously pushes there car in the turns.

Also for anyone looking to purchase sway bars we carry the tanabe all the time! Anyone doing aftermarket sway bars on there car should strongly consider Agency power End links.

Look at the quality difference.

clyde

Coilovers are also a ticket right out of Stock class in Solo II competition which is what this thread has been about.

Listen for what your customers need, not what they might want.