jerzeydevil

Just drove my first AutoX event this weekend and I'm hooked....this was probably the last event of the year and I wanted to get a feel for it before I committed to run a full season next year. I did alright for a first timer...little to zealous on the throttle in some turns, but once I calmed down I was able to put together some decent runs. Also let one of the better drivers (won a national solo II) run my car to see what it was capable of and he ran (with stock tires) only 2.2 seconds off the fastest in the BS class (2 laps, fast course, 2001 S2000 ran 65.230). From what I'm told a decent set of tires would've gained him 2 seconds. After reading the other threads and seeing (and feeling) first hand what this car can do, I am sure a properly setup 8 can run with the S2000 and the Boxsters in this class.

That being said, I am really looking forward to next year but would like some advice from some of the more experienced racers out there on car setup and driving techniques. During the event I got my share of advice, most of which made a lot of sense...but I still have a lot of questions...hopefully you all can help:

1. The DSC....I started with it partially off but was told to learn with it fully off even if I spin out a bit much in the beginning...thoughts on this? (BTW, I didn't notice until it was pointed out to me that when the DSC is fully off the "card sliding" light stays on)

2. What should/can be done to a stock class car to be run effectively with the rest of the class...i.e, tire recommendations, front anti-roll bar. shock/spring replacement (this latest one puzzles me, I can't make sense from the rules whether you can put coil-overs on or not)...and any other suggestions?


Thanks in advance....

mp5

I'm pretty sure the DSC is fully disabled after one press of the button. I also ran my car at AutoX last weekend for the first time and just hit the button once. I was able to get my back end out and keep it out for awhile with no DSC interference.

I believe when the "car sliding" light stays on it represents a DSC system error, which is why it can only be reset by restarting the car. I think canzoomer found this with his testing. There most likely isn't any "partially disabled" mode.

mp5

I'd think that changing the stock tires would be the first step. I've heard that Bridgestone S-03 Pole Positions are good street tires and aren't too expensive. Or you could go all out and get some Hoosier autoX-specific tires.

I'm also confused about the suspension rules. I'd like to get some nice coilovers to lower the car a bit and reduce body-roll. I think you could stay in the stock class, but I'm not sure. I just started so I'm looking for help too

Sneakyracer

Auto - X specific tires make a huge difference over any street tire.

Kumho Victoracers are a good, cheaper, alternative than the Hoosiers. I have used 3 sets of Kumhos and love them (on my vw). Get them shaved from tire rack for best performance right away.

tpryor

First - Take ALL of the advice given, and use what suits you, do not blindly try every suggestion that you receive. Adapt it to your "style" of driving.

In back-to-back running, we have found that the car is NOT fully disabled with a single press of the DSC button! We have been able to pick up almost an entire second with it FULLY disabled (holding the button down until the second light comes on), and two additional seconds over it being on normally. Also, this allows you to get a better feel for the throttle control needed to go fast in this car.

Stock rules in a nutshell:

Wheels must remain the stock diameter and width. They can be plus or minus 1/4" offset from stock.

Any DOT approved tire can be used, provided it fits on the standard rim (as defined above). (Note - you would be surprised how big a tire will go on that car - we have 275/35/18 Hoosiers, and at full steering lock, nothing hits. We are considering 285/30/18's - on the stock rims)

Front sway bars are free (we have the Racing Beat for now).

You can change the air filter element, but not the type (CAI, for example).

Shocks CAN be replaced - springs can NOT!! Stock springs only are allowed, and the shock must be plus or minus one inch fully extended length from stock, however must have the same travel, and can have a maximum of two adjustments. On coil-overs, the shock part IS allowed, but you must use the stock spring and the adjustment collar must be "fixed" into the standard spring perch height (typically a spot weld). I have seen people disqualified for 1/8" difference in spring perch height at a National event.

That's pretty much it.

Best bet would be this - order a 2004 rule book from the SCCA web site (typically available around February), and remember the first rule in the car preparation section - If it does not explicitly say you can do it, then you can't do it!

SCCA Website

jerzeydevil

That's what I found to...after the first run with just a single press of the button, I found the car would let me slide a little bit but would keep me relatively under control....after we figured out that holding the DSC button down for a good 10 seconds would bring on the seconds warning light, the car was much less forgiving and that started me on my spinning spree...

PUR NRG

Which autocross sanctioning body are you racing with? The assumption is SCCA, where tpryor's recommendations apply.

My take: given you're a newcomer to autocrossing, stick to street tires. That simplifies logistics and you'll learn more. Street tires don't grip as well as slicks but they are more forgiving that their limit and will let you know when they're on the edge.

Use shoe polish to mark the outer edges of your tires. Useful to tell if you need to add/remove air.

Get a good alignment done at a shop you trust. Factory alignment is all over the place.

The "first stage" DSC disable is temporary. I've been told if you slam on ABS it will re-engage DSC. Not so with the "second stage" deactivation.

Seat time is more important than car upgrades. In SCCA it's legal to spend $5000+ on new shocks (but with stock springs) and remain in stock class. However you'll benefit more from driving time than anything else.

Enjoy and have fun!
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Zoloft sickness

syntrix

No, you need the skid light at the top of the tach to come on. You hold the dsc button down for like 10 seconds and that indicator lights up.

If you just turn dsc off, you will get anti-skid braking action in turns at autox. I played around, and it was surprisingly smooth, but definately hurt times with just dsc off. HOLD THAT DSC BUTTON DOWN FOR A WHILE!

The two best things to you can to a stock RX8.

1. Better tires, and maybe a larger size, like a 245/40/18

2. Alignment - but you must understand what this will do with street driving.


The RX8 rocks out of the box at autox and track days!

jerzeydevil

I am racing in the SCCA SOLO II stock class....

I agree with you about driving time, but I do want to ensure that I will be at least capable of being competative once my driving comes around.

So I gather the tires are number one (still trying to decide on a streetable tire or dedicated wheel/tire package....I think my bank account will determine that)....also plan on getting a bigger front roll bar.

As for the tires, if I go with a streetable pair what do you guys think of the BFGoodrich KD or KDW2's, Michelin Pilot Sort Cup, or the Kunho Ecsta MX? I am going solely on Tirerack numbers but the KD or the KDW2 look promising.

PUR NRG

Assuming average skill, "once my driving comes around" can take years. I've done two track schools, three autocross schools and over 50 autocross events and I still consider myself a newbie. Meaning there's still lots I can learn as a driver that will result in better times than adding any equipment.

Use street tires--any max or ultra performance will do, get a good alignment and just practice.
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HERBALAIRE INSTRUCTIONS

syntrix

A bigger/stiffer fron roll bar (if you mean sway bar), will increase understeer. The stock rx8 setup does have a bit of understeer out of the box

If you mean upper strut brace, I'd save your money until you can actually feel the chassis flex in the car, and actually feel it making a difference in the car. I can barely predict it in the RX8, but then again, I've only had the car for a little more than 2 months.

tpryor

For autocross, we found that the Racing Beat bar actually decreased the understeer in steady state corners! This goes against "conventional" wisdom, but we took a hint from all the VW drivers out there who went to a larger front bar to DECREASE understeer.

The RX-8 will "sit down" on the bump stops in a steady state corner (again, at an autocross, you would never get to this point on the street), causing the spring rate to go to infinity and creating a MASSIVE push. You can fell the moment the car goes to full stiff, and all you can do is wait for it to unwind.

With the bigger bar (the RB bar is 230% stiffer than the stock bar, if the stock bar is 100%), the car will not sit down onto the bump stops so quickly, allowing for a softer "actual" spring rate. It works....

Now we can get the car rotated much quicker, which allows us to get on the throttle sooner, etc.

And, an upper strut brace change is not allowed in SCCA stock class.

jerzeydevil

I meant 'anti-roll' bar...and thanks for the clarification on how it works....I heard that it would help, I just didn't fully understand why.

One thing about the RB bar and the SCCA stock rules I need clarification on...the bar can be ordered with a beefier set of end links...the mounting locations on the bar and the chassis must be drilled though to fit these units....is this allowed?

tpryor

You can't change the WAY it mounts, or the location of the mounting points, but opening of the hole would be allowed to mount the end links. I'll verify this when I get home (that's where the rulebook is) and PM you with the details.

eccles

Got it here. Rule 13.7.A.4:

jerzeydevil

"Non-standard lateral members which connect between the brackets for the bar are not permitted."

Does this mean I can drill the hole bigger but not use the racing beat end links?

tpryor

No, what they are referring to is a brace that would supplement the frame brackets. There are braces that mount to the two frame mount bushing holders to strengthen the mounts.

End links are permitted.

AND, thanks for finding that so quick, eccles.....

jerzeydevil

yeah...thanks eccles and tpryor for the explanation....i have a lot to learn.....

Killerking1964

I also ran autocross last weekend for the first time. With 38 psi all around I ran 53.8. With 36psi fornt, 34 psi rear, I ran 54.3. Next time I am gonna keep the psi up to 38 cold.

PUR NRG

Are you using slicks? On OEM tires I found 34 PSI front and leaving the rears at 32 PSI gave me the most grip.
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DEPAKOTE PROBLEMS

Killerking1964

nope, the OEM Bridgestone Potenzas.

Killerking1964

Well I've ordered my RB front/rear sway bars and endlinks, plus the CP racing tri. strut bar and lower tie bar. So much for stock (BS) class next time!!