chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

The RX-8's autocross handling in the dry still astounds me to this day. However, after 1 season in the car (20+ events) I just don't feel 'comfortable' with the wet weather handling of this car at all.

I know part of my problem is that my former car (DS WRX) spoiled me in the wet. It just did what I wanted it to and never seemed to "bite back" even when things got out of control. Go through a sweeper sideways? No prob, get back on the gas, the car corrects and you shoot out of the hole like Petter Solberg.

In the RX-8 though, it seems like it goes into on-throttle or lift-throttle snap oversteer at the drop of a hat. While I've been working on modulating the gas pedal more and more (not using it as an on-off switch), no matter how gentle I am it seems like I'm a spinning fool out there. Long sweepers seem to give me the most problems - especially when I need to get on the throttle mid-way during the turn when the steering wheel is still turned.

How do you drive an RX-8 in the wet? Leaving the DSC on (or partially on) is not an option - I've tried it and the "nanny" kicks in far too often. Appreciate any advice/tips people on here can offer.

Imp

I guess driving 'enthusiastically' in the snow up here has its rewards. Take some drifting lessons. Driving a car sideways will take out any of the 'scare' of actually being sideways. Or in the very least some wet skidpad time.

There's at least one run at nationals every year where I just drift an entire corner. '05 at Forbes comes to mind on the North Course going around the showcase turn. It was drying up on the run with some wet spots. Coming into it, and wheee! Also, in '04 in the wet on the North Course in my wagon. (http://www.rallydecals.com/kcpics/drift.mpg)

But you're on the right track, it's all about throttle modulation (or more or less constant traction sampling). You shouldn't be using the pedal as an on-off switch anyways... even in the dry. Just constant feathering of the throttle, just do it more in the rain. Sometine, slow is the only way, and it's fast.

Also, I disabled the DSC/TC in the wet.

--kC

imput1234

iTrader: (6)

My traction control is off, kick it sideways in the rain and have fun. remember you are in a parking lot.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

I can't see the wall cones to know if this is a showcase or not , but was this the turn?





KC, while I'm definitely getting better at throttle modulation, it just surprises me at how easy it is to spin this car like a top - almost as if it were a mid-engined car. I don't think I'm afraid of sideways driving (at least not in the dry), but I'm definitely not comfortable with it yet.

IIRC at every rain event I did this year (at least 25% of my '08 events have had rain) I've spun the car at least once. I guess it's also a 'feel' thing too. My co-driver Shawn has always been better at wet driving than myself - when I ride along with him, I notice he flicks the steering wheel in opposite lock a lot sooner than I do to catch the car. His experience has been in an STS2 miata, while mine was in a pushy, camber-challenged DS WRX.

iaus10

Catching the car is one thing... but don't get it in the position that you have to catch it. Modulating throttle is a good start. Make sure you're not using brakes and steering as on-off switches as well. If you can, add compliance to your tires and suspension for wet conditions.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Ivan. Typically how much do you drop your tire pressures for rain driving?

I should clarify, the type of rain driving I'm talking about is when the course is wet but there's no heavy downpour i.e. running on a wet course with V710/A6 race rubber. Only one event was so wet that I ran my SPT's (Pro Finale) and even then, I still spun once per side!

Silver06

In the wet, you want to look at changing your line through the corner. Try to do more things in a straight line - braking and accelerating. You'll probably want to try to late-apex the corner before the longest straight (you'll lose entry speed, but gain much more exit speed by being able to get power to the ground). Also, try a lower gear through sets of corners to control our 'neck-snapping' torque (lol).

Now, YMMV, because I'm a racing guy who has next to no AutoX experience. But the theories are the same, no?

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

There are definitely some similarities. However, we rarely need to shift gears in autocross (after the initial 1-2 shift). Even if a turn was slow enough to merit a downshift to 1st, I typically try to keep 2nd in the wet so that the back-end would be more controllable under throttle.

Agreed on late-apexing corners as much as possible, and doing most of the braking and accelerating in the straights. I think Strano gave me that very advice when I asked him how he drove the torquey Shelby so well in the wet.

Imp

Yep. That's it.

--KC

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Nice - looks like it didn't cost you too much time.

One more question, how does the torsen diff do in the wet in comparison to other diffs? Is it possible to overload the clutches to the point where it acts like an open diff?

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Not possible to overload something you don't have... No clutch pack in our JDM ripoff of a Torsen.

If you want to go fast in the rain, get the proper tires - and they are not street tires.

Imp

V710s are fine in the rain with very little standing water. Once you have some puddles or heavy downpours, you're SOL.

--kC

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Gotcha. Hopefully the W710 will be offered in a size suitable for an RX-8 soon. I plan on staying in the Kumho camp for at least 1 more season.
This is the situation I'm thinking of - wet course but no standing water. The lot around Fedex stadium has such steep elevation changes I don't think standing water is possible there.

Silver06

I find the biggest help / hindrance to performance at the track is the nut behind the wheel. Wet or Dry especially.

mwood

I think a thorough recalibration of the seat of your pants is called for, chike

JK, good tires will enable you to go quicker in the wet, but the basic car control aspects will be the same. The biggest thing is to soften inputs to lessen shock to the tire/pavement relationship...easier said than done, I've yet to get it right in the wet at a "big" event, overreaching the limits and not staying on the fine line between patience and aggression...but, I have done it at local events, a few times

Zoom4Three

Hey Chike -

I have a couple of additional thoughts, both the Peru and Milwaukee Tour events had this type of wet to drying conditions this year so it's somewhat fresh in my mind. The biggest thing for me was really focusing on the course conditions during each run. Planning ahead for the differences in grip level around the course when it's just partially wet is critical. In some places you can be in full attack mode and in others you just have to pull the reins back and be ultra patient. It's very likely all of the people in your class are going to make driving errors during your run group, so minimizing your BIG errors will payoff versus the high risk approach.

After your first run to feel out the course, really focus on the two or three major trouble spots, places where you know things are dicey or you left a lot on the table because the conditions were drier than you thought. Optimize those spots on the next run and don't make any other major mistakes and your times will drop a ton. Repeat for the third run and you will be in the hunt. If you get over aggressive, choppy with the wheel, big oversteer/understeer etc the time will suffer.

Don't get overly concerned about the car set-up. Sure, soften things up a bit but don't overly focus on it. The big time difference will come from reducing the driving errors on course and taking advantage of the places you can attack the course. Also, don't forget about the start...tons of time to be gained or lost with a good launch in the wet.

Chris H

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Mike. Those softer inputs are what I really need to work on - I've always been a little "abrupt" with mine.
I think it's the lack of "ultra patience" that causes 80% of my spins in the wet. I always try to get back on the gas too soon coming out of the tighter turns. Lots of golden nuggets in what you wrote...especially about getting a good launch in the wet.

Thanks Harv!