With what for spring rates though:) And what front bar?

Koni cars run crazy stiff spring rates compared to stock...and different front to rear bias

I ran with the Progress front and no rear...with KW's...and it understeered like crazy.

It is very important that all of the variables are used here....

Springs, Damping rates, sway's, tire pressure, camber all are in the mix

Have to compare apples and apples...or at least Macintosh to Spartans ;)

Yea, you are sooooo right. I have the RB front and OEM rear now. So all I will do is play with tire pressure and the coilover height adjustments if I take the bar off. I think it will be fun if I have time to play. This is going to be a very loose atmosphere with non-competitive sessions. 3 cars on track at one time. I can afford to make some adjustments and not worry about getting eaten up by a silly vette! :D

We did this event last year in some serious rain and I left my RA1's on the first half of the day just for the experience of driving in really slippery conditions. It was a great experience and one that taught me a lot about car control and smooth input. Wasn't very fast but it paid off in the long run. I think this could be similar. I might not hone in on the perfect setting but at least I will know at the end of the day if this direction is worth pursuing with my set-up. May just try it for one session. I suspect we might get 5 or 6 sessions so we should have plenty of time to play with it.

So did you have to throw your car into the turn like Grand Marque? :)
Did you change it out promptly or try to adjust into the set-up?

DBL post alert... sorry!

My car feels neutral right now, I should probably have my head examined for even thinking about making any changes, however, if you don't experiment, I guess you never know if something might be better. Or at least you find out you shouldn't have messed with it and that's good too. Olddragger is always wrenching his car, that boy never quits. :)

i know and I am tired!
dan--you are right dude--it all influences each other. Plus the drivers style of driving has to be taken into consideration.
the s.c has really changed the car and getting more grip in the rear is something I need. But not at the expense of big understeer. If i can get enough load on the outside front WHILE i am trying to accelerate pretty hard then i will be where i want. oversteer is too much fun at little T--NOT at road atlanta!
anyway we are just playing!
OD

Hi guys, I need some help from you.

Soon I will install my new setup:

KW Inox V3 Coilover
GTspec strutbar Front & Rear
Greddy rear trunk bar
AP Sways Front & Rear
AP End-links

Is this a good alignment to start working with for me?

- Front L Camber: -1.8º
- Front R Camber: -1.8º
- Cross Camber: -0.1º
- Front L Caster: 6.5º
- Front R Caster: 6.6º
- Cross Caster: -0.1º
- Front Toe L: 0.03"
- Front Toe R: 0.03"
- Total Toe: 0.06"
- Rear Camber L: -2.0º
- Rear Camber R: -2.0º
- Rear Toe L: 0.08"
- Rear Toe R: 0.08"
- Total Toe: 0.16"
- Thrust Angle: -0.00º

Dropping the rear sway was not going to happen at TGPR. I had a new set of R888's that had not been shaved and they were a hand full to handle. The tread squiggle was too much to deal with to add anymore elements. Latter part of the day she started to handle much better. Had to keep the "variables" in check.

So is it a good start or should I start with different alignment?

I would start with less camber in the back than in front or close to the same. More rear camber will cause the car to understeer.

Thanks.. I pass it on to the racing company that will set up my car.

Its just for a starting point, we will make the shake down test and do adjustments soon.

I just had mine done today, I told the guy what I want (some track day)

and I forgot what exactly it was (I dont have the paper right now), but I remember the front left camber is something like -1.3, and right is -1.8

he said the settings I have now is something between full racing and street. Is it right ?

I dunno much about alignment settings ...

ok well get this. I ran Little taladaga on a 1.2 on the front and a 1.4 on the rear.
when i had my front tires flipped the guy said the wear on them was as uniform as it could get.
running a 275/35/18 on an enkei 9.5x18 well. yall know my suspension. i ran 32 lbs cold on a 78F day--hot pressures--best i could get them---was 40.
a 1.8 up front and a 2.0 in the rear will cause increased wear on the street.
olddragger

Which tires are you running? That seems high to me. I usually try to keep my hot pressure closer to 35 which depending on the day means I start around 28 or lower cold. I'm running 245/40/18 Hoosier R3S04s most of the time tho I keep my 275/35/18 Cooper 2XS's at the same pressures if it's raining out or I'm only doing a half day and don't want to eff with tire changes.

Going in for another alignment on Sunday. Expect to get a little more front camber now that I'm lower. Hopefully can run up to 1.5/1.7.

my point is that increased camber sometimes is not needed.
olddragger

It finally came time for me to get my first alignment done. I've combed over this and many other threads for ideal alignments for track, autocross, and daily driving, and tried to formulate a middle ground between them that would work for me (basically overall improved handling that won't drastically chew up my new RE-01R 245 tires). I plan on doing a full season of autocross and at least one HPDE event this year.

I settled on some numbers to have set: -1.5 front L&R camber, max caster, -1.7 rear L&R camber, slight toe out in the front, and slight toe in on the back. After some more thought, I decided to let these numbers sit in the back of my head for the time being and just determine what I should do based on what the car was currently set to.

I got the alignment done last week and as far as I can tell for daily driving, things are good. I am looking forward to the first autocross event of the season next weekend.

The original alignment was stock specification (approximate because we forgot to record the values before making changes, yet I have a fuzzy memory about what they were). I had the alignment done with me sitting in the car.

___orig. (stock)________new________
________(approx.)_____(actual)_____

camber:
FL: . . . -5/8 . . . . -1 1/4 . . .
FR: . . . -7/8 . . . . -1 1/4 . . .
RL: . . . -1 5/8 . . . -2 . . . . .
RR: . . . -2 1/4 . . . -2 . . . . .

caster:
FL: . . . 6 5/8 . . . . 7 1/2 . . .
FR: . . . 6 1/2 . . . . 7 5/8 . . .

toe (in):
FL: . . . 1/16 . . . . . 0 . . . . .
FR: . . . 1/16 . . . . . 0 . . . . .
RL: . . . 1/16 . . . . 1/16 . . . .
RR: . . . 1/16 . . . . 1/16 . . . .

Opinions on this setup? This is all running on stock suspension (will get Koni yellows in the semi-near future). Based on my original planned numbers, I felt the front camber numbers to be a bit low. I figure it's probably better to take smaller increments of adjustment and see how they work first, then adjust again later if necessary.

Depends a lot on suspension setup in my experience at least. With TEIN Flex, I had to remove the rear sway bar to get the car back to neutral with the rest of my setup, running on RT-615s. The rear spring rates are high enough on the Flex coilovers that the rsb adds too much wheel rate. Playing with alignment couldn't dial out the oversteer, and I was getting oversteer mid-corner as well as every time I got on the power. Disconnecting the rsb quieted down the rear for me in both mid-corner and exit.

My setup for a while now has been -1.8 front camber, -2 rear; ~0 toe front, -3 mm rear; TEIN Flex set with ride height such that the front sits a tad lower than the rear (don't recall exact ride height measurements off hand); Whiteline adjustable front sway bar set on soft, no rear sway bar; sticky street tires (usually RT-615s, about to run some RE-01Rs for this spring) in 245/45-17.

Pretty neutral this way on track now on street tires. On r-comps (RA-1s), it was close to neutral with the stock rear bar attached and everything else the same, FWIW.

That is me.... now.

I have -2.5 camber front and -2.25 rear. Toe out front and toe in rear (1.5mm and 3mm respectively). Caster I have it on 6, because I like the car to be more reponsive and I found the turn it is pretty shit when I had it on 7.

I also professionally corner balanced. They told me I had the car very low, and it is just a touch lower than stock (I think about 20mm), set by another race tuner. This suspension expert explained to me that the A arm is bending in lower height. That reduces the forces in the suspension.

So I think if you have done everything right, you might have to experiment the ride height. And don't be afraid to increase the height.

yes, in the rear

I still can't fathom why anyone runs higher camber in the rear than the front :squint: :lol2:

i like hard grippy braking from 140+mph:)-- but that is a good point.
David at speedsource told me I needed some dynamic shocks/600 lb spring in the front and 400 in the rear--adjustable bar in the front and a modified oem bar in the back. I think i need some money.
olddragger

My new setup is

Front:
Camber -2.6
Caster 6.8
Toe 0

Rear:
Camber -2.4
Toe .1

I'm on TEIN FLEX
ride height is 25.5" from front fender to ground, and 25.9" in the rear.

pics?

Wrong thread for pics.

Thats a pretty aggressive alignment. Is that just for track duty or combined duty? Would be very curious to see how evenly tires wear and to hear how it drives on normal streets.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/...fde38653_o.jpg

It's my daily driver, tires don't really last long, but that's more my driving than anything else.

thread kinda died down a bit, but i thought id refresh it with my noob self!!!

im still have alot to learn about alignments and suspension settings but can any of you guys recommend an alignment for me (track)? just need a starting point. my 8 is also my DD.

im lowered on Tanabe GF210's (1.4 front 1.2 rear, 179lbs front 146lbs rear). and ill be getting wheels 18x9.5 on z1 star specs 275/35.

TIA

Dear all

Would appreciate all on my suspension settings....
Currently going for the occasional track day and used as a daily driver
Suspension (Front: 11kg Rear: 4kg)
Camber (Front: 1.5 Rear: 2.5)
Toe (Front: slight toe out Rear:slight toe in)
Castor (Front: 6 deg)
Tyres: 225/45/18 AD07




Thanks in advance for your input
Alan

Those are some unusual spring rates. Are you running stock swaybars?

factory setting is a good setting to start with, the factory put endless hours and engineer behind their alignment to give you the best result on the road and on the track. if you lower your car you could go and do a toe set to 0 toe in front and 1/8 total toe in on the rear to start with, and keep the caster and camber as it is. just balance out the camber and caster if it came out uneven.

My guess is that your car will understeer. I'm not sure what impact the much softer rear springs will have though. If it understeers I would bring the camber closer together and set the rear camber slightly less than the front.

i am going to make a simple statement here.

the #s in the first post are a great place to start.. and when you get good enough to move on you will know what to do.. i am talking about track settings, with real sized tires and offset.

if you are running 275s staggared with a 2.5 camber. you have missed the point of this thread..


beers :beer:

To add on, I am autoexe front and rear sway.....
The spring rates are very unusual but it provides easy traction when you power out early in the corner as the rear squats much easier according to my friend.....

THanks for the advise, I have currently lowered the car to about 2 fingers clearance between tyre and fender......
sorry, can you clarify what do you mean by balancing the camber and caster if it came out uneven??

Thanks for the advise, from the textbook suspension settings, I believe the car understeers too.......but maybe my friend's recommendation is so that it is safer settings for a noob on the track....

Hi Swoope
Have run thru some of the settings ran by you guys...it appears to me those running auto-x are having a more oversteery kinda setups...
let me add on to my suspension setup
Suspension (Front: 11kg Rear: 4kg)
Camber (Front: 1.5 Rear: 2.5)
Toe (Front: slight toe out Rear:slight toe in)
Castor (Front: 6 deg)
Tyres: 225/45/18 AD07 (all round)
Sway bars (autoexe front and rear)
Strut bars (RE front and rear)

The track that I am running is relatively high speed in my view (or maybe I am not accustomed to these kinda speed:sweatdrop) with 2 corner with lowest speed of 65kph, abt 3 corners with kinks of 100kph and 2 high speed left right of about 130-140kph.....

Once again, thank you all for the input

the first post was about a track street setting. and it works very well on the track for many..

you are so far away from it..

the spring settings are odd. you should be asking local track only cars for help. where are you?

you are way outside what this thread is about..

beers :beer:

Oic, thanks for highlighting
The spring settings are standard from the coilover that I bought, so can only adjust a bit of damping rates
The local track guys are generally running more camber in front for FWD
For AWD, slightly more camber in front
For RWD, more camber at the back
Will try to ask more when I meet them next time.

By the way, I am in Singapore and the track some of the local guys go to is Sepang Circuit

Cheers

check your pm

beers :beer:

I'll just post it up: dude, you're sources for information are fubar

If you're going to run that much spring rate differential you'll need to swap those camber settings

ok,

you know what i pmed ?

i am confused now. odd with you!

beers :beer:

I'm referring to the other dude, not you dude :lol2: and you caught me before the edit

:squint::banghead:

wow,

odd that i am ahead of the game! :)

simple is good.

beers :beer:

Here is what i'm running for daily plus track and mountain

Suspension (Front: 8kg Rear: 6kg Megan Coilover)
Camber (Front: -3.0 Rear: -2.5)
Toe (Front: slight toe out Rear:slight toe in)
Castor (Front: 6 deg)
Tires: 255/40/17 NT01

Thanks for the advice.

Are you suggesting that I should run more camber in the front vs the rear for more oversteery characteristics??

I generally worry about opening too big a camber in front cause I understand it will affect my braking....alternatively do you all adjust the castor to add camber during conering?

Cheers
Alan

but you're worried about the rear hooking up off the turn, yet want to run all that rear camber :squint:

you have a Renesis, not a fire breathing V8 LS1 engine, hooking up on corner exit due to power isn't an issue for an RX-8 unless you've swapped on a FI system, the rear also gains camber under compression

I'm not big on front caster, I would place emphasis on setting optimal front camber first, then run whatever caster you can at that setting if it matters to you

IMO the only reason to run a higher rear camber setting is if you have soft front bar/spring rates (read:weight transfer) because then the resulting net body roll has to be compensated

I think he got a 20B, twin turbo running 16psi with 600whp.:lol2::lol2:
I seen FD rx7 with LS1 engine run more spring rate then that on the rear.

That's a lot more front camber than I've seen. That doesn't mean it's bad. Just new data. I'd be interested to hear what your inside to outside tire temp differentials are. get yourself a probe type tire temp gauge and check your inside to outside tire temp. differences are. After a couple of hard laps you want a car that is using as much of the tire as possible meaning that there is as little differential across the tire as possible. So I would say 10% temp difference or less is a good range to shoot for. If your inside is too hot you want less camber. If your outside of the tire is too hot you want more camber. If your car is understeering try a bigger split in camber from front to back. If you have oversteer try more camber in the rear relative to the front.

Thanks for the advice
Will try running less rear camber and more front camber during my next track day

Cheers
Alan

haha.............definitely wish my 8 has more grunt.........a 20b swop would be so sweet.........:)

If you need it as a daily driven, I will not go over -1.8 degree camber front, -1.5 on the back.
anything more is an over kill, and wear out the tire faster.
toe out in front also wear the inside tire faster, so I keep it at 0, and 0.08 toe in each side on the back.

Thanks for the advise
Will keep that in mind for my suspension settings

Cheers
Alan

Yo Alignment buffs! I've read this thread and others here and can see there are lots of good suggestions and discussion about the best alignments, etc. for different situations.

I want to stop the uneven wear on my tires as shown by these NT-01 R-Comps. Any of you that have been there / seen this... then changed things for the better... please tell me how to adjust alignment to change this wear pattern, assuming it's not just inevitable because of track use?

OK, here's my alignment/corner balance w/my weight in the seat.

Attachment 280228

Here's what my NT-01s I look like right now. This is a bit over a year old set used for I'd say 38 1/2 hr track sessions, plus ~2500 miles street driving getting to and from. They're still track worthy, but are getting ready for replacement.

Now admitedly I work at wearing them down as often as possible...

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f.../tirewear1.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f.../tirewear2.jpg
Attachment 280229

...but as you can see (I rotate them often) the wear is even, but at an even slant going towards the outside, then accelerates at the edges. From what I been reading here, more camber than what I run means uneven wear, but it looks to me like more is needed to get the inside wear rate up!

Other setup... Whitline sways at medium front and rear...no overriding under/oversteer, and as far as I can tell cornering stays flat. I run 36-38 cold, 40-46 hot for tire pressure, depending on ambient temps.

Before buying new tires, that might be softer and so wear much faster .....I'd like to get this under control. What do you think i might change?

It's crazy how fast the 8 would turn in with a good alignment. I had the luck of getting mine aligned by a guru here in Austin. I think I still have the alignement printout here somewhere.

I miss it. That ass end would load up and break away pretty easy if you didn't know the way it wanted to be driven.