You mean more negative camber, correct? Like -1.4. That seems to be a consensus number around here..........

yes, i mean more neg. camber at the front. Just start with that first, and see how the car drives for you. Because different track, alignment can be different too. You just have to try different setting, and see how you like it.

tnx.

Had mine done last Friday before taking the car down to MidOhio. Hadn't had an alignment since I bought it in 2006 and it already had 19k on it when I got it. Hard to tell how much help the alignment was from my last time down there since I also had new tires, new brakes, sways, etc. but the car felt incredible and was flying around the track.

I basically went with SilverEIGHT's setup as the starting point but the shop wasn't able to get anymore than -1 camber on the fronts. I'm putting on new shocks/springs over the Winter and having it aligned again in the Spring so we'll see if they can get me even more.

Here's the alignment sheet. You can see how effed up it was before and what it ended up at.

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1223385219

Getting max front camber
 

I dont think I saw this really discussed in this thread....

This weekend I adjusted the LF to see how much negative camber I could get (without directly adjusting caster). First I loosened the camber adjustment and turned the cam to push the lower arm out as far as possible. This gave about 0.9 deg more (neg) camber. Next I left this lower cam loose and also loosened the two inner mount bolts of the upper A-arm as well. I used a jack under the brake disk and tapped away with a hammer top and bottom to take up any play towards my goal of max neg camber. After tightening it all up again, this got me about another -0.6 deg. Kinda basic but I expect that many/most alignment shops just dial the cam around and thats it. Is this the simple difference btwn cars reported to get only <1 deg, and cars that get over 1.5 with stock caster?

BTW it then took two turns (2.5mm) more tie rod length to get the toe to about zero.
Also these are just quickie measurements from toe boards and a camber gauge, but give an idea. I wanted to see for myself how much camber I can expect and know whats going on up there before bringing it to a rack to get everything else matched up and just so. I plan to set the rear camber equal to the front as a starting point.

BTW2 boy the 8's suspension is SO much slicker than all the Mk1-4 VW's I played with over the years!! Sweet!

My latest settings 10/22/08
- Front L Camber: -1.8º
- Front R Camber: -1.8º
- Cross Camber: -0.1º
- Front L Caster: 6.5º
- Front R Caster: 6.6º
- Cross Caster: -0.1º
- Front Toe L: 0.03"
- Front Toe R: 0.03"
- Total Toe: 0.06"
- Rear Camber L: -2.0º
- Rear Camber R: -2.0º
- Rear Toe L: 0.08"
- Rear Toe R: 0.08"
- Total Toe: 0.16"
- Thrust Angle: -0.00º

we are almost alike.
-1.7 F
total toe 0.10 F
-1.9 R
total toe 0.18R
caster+ 6.6 both sides
it turns in GOOD.
cant wait to try out my monster track tires.
OD

Very interesting! I recently acquired a 2007 RX8 and I when I took it in for an aggressive alignment all I could get up front was -1.1 camber. The tech who is supportive and has done my other Acura said it was all he could get. Are there other ways, or aftermarket parts, that one needs to achieve more camber or is what Wishboneracing did the secret? I would like to get about -1.6 or-1.8 up front. Maybe I'll try his method.

You'll need to get lower springs to get more camber. I was only able to get about -0.9 in the front on the OEM springs and with my new Swift springs I am at -1.68 in the front.

BTW good info. guys. Here are my recent settings for HPDE days. This is very streetable so far and I have to find out how this feels on the track.

LF Camber: -1.64deg.
LF Caster: 7.34deg.
LF toe: -0.5mm

RF Camber: -1.69deg.
RF Caster: 7.38deg.
RF toe: -0.5mm

Total front Toe: -1mm
Steer ahead 0.00deg

LR camber: -1.72deg
LR Toe 0.4mm
RR camber: -1.73deg
RR toe: 0.4mm
total toe: 0.8mm
Thrust angle: 0.00deg

No, they just need to take out some of the caster, most of these guys are giving up -.2 or more by running so much caster.

I did my RF and it gave similar results... just over ~1 deg after only turning the cam, then about 1.5 deg after ensuring the top arm was as far in as possible, and bottom as far out. Let me know if this works for you. By my math an extra mm on both top and bottom arms equates to an extra half a degree of camber.

Also some people may not realize how much the camber varies with ride height (wheel travel). According to the specs, just a 10mm drop in ride height adds about 0.3 deg neg camber (front or rear). This is why everyone emphasizes doing your final alignment setting with driver (and other loads) in place.
http://www.myrotarycar.com/portal/fo...3le/index.html

Front Camber -0.47 Left, -0.43 Right
Front Caster 6.99 Left, 7.10 Right
Front Toe 0.04 Left, 0.04 Right
Front Cross Camber -0.04
Front Cross Caster -0.11
Front Total Toe 0.08

Rear Camber -1.27 Left, -1.18 Right
Rear Toe -0.01 Left, -0.00 Right
Rear Total Toe -0.02
Thrust angle 0.00

Tire size: 245/40/18
Please give input as this will be my first time on the track and decided to get it aligned before I go out.

I have racingbeat lowering springs so I had more to work with as far as negative camber is concerned.

My settings from my huge amount of research on the forum is:
-1.7 front camber
0 Toe
6 Caster

-1.5 rear camber
0 Toe

Car is insanely neutral and easy to drive. I have no idea about tire wear yet as I only have 3,000 miles on the tires so far. These are my autocross settings, but I'm sure it would work very well on the track as well.

This set up with new Dunlup Direzza Z1 Star Specs has knocked 3-5 seconds off my time on a 40-50 second course.


Edit: I even made a thread about it: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/koni-sports-racingbeat-springs-impressions-159409/

Also I can't remember how much castor I have, not important anyways.

Double Edit: I have yet to start a collection of trophies, but from the looks of it I'm not far off. So take my advice with a grain of salt.

I've only had my RX8 a couple of months and haven't spent much time under the car other than to swithc track pads. Are there any aftermarket bolts, cams, bushings, etc. that will give additional camber adjustment beyond the limit of the OEM adjustment? I'm currently at -1.1 front with OEM springs and I don't want to lower the car to get more camber. I would like to have about -1.4 to -1.6.

Add my little bit.... I'm just starting to play with alignment, starting from stock. Here's comments after 50 miles of hard dry paved mountain driving last night (mostly 7-8 tenths only, occasionally more (gotchas). From the rack:

Front Camber -1.2
Rear Camber -2.1
Total Toe-in 0.30 deg F&R (about 3mm)

This feels very safe and secure, nice n safe for hard road use, but kinda dull too. Rear is quite planted. Clear if mild understeer at limit. Hard to rotate.

(Front camber max'd at left. Caster down a little to 5.3. Feels like I need more rear roll stiffness, or find that extra front camber?? Meantime will try reducing rear toe-in a tad at a time.)

BTW my own camber settings using camber gauge were staggered, according to the rack (front -1.2 left, -1.8 right). I didn't believe it at first - my gauge indicated 1.5 each side - but later realized that my readings are based on the car's level (not road). But the car doesn't sit level - the left side sits 10 mm lower than right (even without driver). So my gauge readings were -1.5 each side relative to the car, but the car itself sits at a tilt of 0.3 degrees, so -1.2/-1.8 vs the road. Just 10 mm level difference across the width of the car equals 0.3 degrees.

Didn't wishboneracing's advice help you get more?

You can get springs that barely lower the car but improve performance by stiffening up the car. MS springs are less than an inch. Tein H-Tech is even less and evens out the drop. Lots of spring options if you don't want a drop and of course you could just get coilovers.

I haven't actually attempted Wishbones method yet, as I haven't had the time and it would require another $90 alignment. At any rate, my current setting of -1.1 is about what he has, now that he had it checked at the shop. I think you may have missed my point in that I was wondering if there are other aftermarket options for increasing camber OTHER than lowering the car. I am aware of the many options for lowering, and know that with the unequal length wishbone suspension I would gain negative camber by lowering.

In my previous car, an Acura RSX-S, I had installed a pair of eccentric camber bolts on either front Macpherson strut as the OEM strut had no camber adjustment, and was able to get -1.8. The Mazda has an eccentric camber bolt up front, but it seems to be maxed out at -1.1. Just trying to figure out my future options on a car I'm still getting familiar with.

My latest alignment is eerily close to what you have, except I had to go down to 4.5 degrees of caster inorder to get -1.8º in the front. Most people use a 0.2º increase in rear camber (over the front), as you went with. My co-driver and I wanted the car a bit looser (for concrete), so the difference is smaller. :)

One thing Eric Meyer suggested to me to figure out what camber works best is to get a probe style tire temp gauge and measure 3 places across your tires (outside, middle, inside) right after you get off the track and adjust your camber to try and make the temperatures as even as possible. You won't get it perfect but once you get it as close as you can you'll be getting the most out of your tires.

Sounds good in theory... but is difficult depending on the track and how you can get off in the pits. Works best on a skid pad :)

Agreed. A skid pad or a slalom course is the best way to get repeatable results. Tracks are different and you'd be dialing in for a specific track.

Having read thru this thread several times the consensus appears to be to have more negative rear camber. I always thought more neg camber (compared to the rear) was needed up front to assist with corner entry/turn-in. Can someone shed a little light on why more is needed in the rear?

And are Silver8s settings (below) considered fairly conservative as I'm not looking to go real aggressive in my setup for the track? My primary goal is stability in long high speed (80+MPH) sweepers.

Originally Posted by SilverEIGHT View Post
My latest settings 10/22/08
- Front L Camber: -1.8º
- Front R Camber: -1.8º
- Cross Camber: -0.1º
- Front L Caster: 6.5º
- Front R Caster: 6.6º
- Cross Caster: -0.1º
- Front Toe L: 0.03"
- Front Toe R: 0.03"
- Total Toe: 0.06"
- Rear Camber L: -2.0º
- Rear Camber R: -2.0º
- Rear Toe L: 0.08"
- Rear Toe R: 0.08"
- Total Toe: 0.16"
- Thrust Angle: -0.00º

camber -2 all around.

Senna, I use a company called GTE (Gran Turismo East): http://www.granturismoeast.com/

They are our local tuner shop for alignment. They're the location of choice for those that track, drift and race. You describe to the technician how aggressive you are, what level of driving skill, and talk about the wear on your tires. He ask questions about how the car handles in turns and if you are good at describing the over/under steer and how it handles then he looks at your present settings and makes adjustments based on all the info.

Mine is a moderate set-up and is for street and track. It is probably more for track because I'm getting some wear on the inside of the tires on my daily drivers. However, I'm willing to accept that for the benefit of driving on track. I don't think I will go any more aggressive than what it is right now.

My driving skill: 24 or so HPDE type events, I'm going to take the instructor clinic next month with NASA, so I'm driving pretty aggressively in DE 3/4 groups. Will probably go to Time Trials in March.

I was driving Toyo RA1's on track and now have a new set of Toyo R888's. It's my understanding that they don't require as much camber but I really don't know that by experience yet as they have not been tracked yet.

If you have any questions, you may want to give Kieran a call at GTE and ask him if he can let you talk to the guy that does the actual set-ups. don't know how much time they can give because they are really busy.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

hey Silver--just for the hell of it i am going to te track with my street settins of 1.2 up front and 1.4 in the rear--zero toe.
i bet it will not make that much difference.
course i am kinda slow anyway.
OD

OD, you taking that set-up to Roebling Road or Road Atlanta, or is that just your standard set-up?

If you are so slow, how come I can't catch up to you?

Slow is a relative thing... :)

Slow is fast :lol:

Cool, thanks for elaborating on your setup Silver. I'm looking to make the jump to TT sometime this year too.
I don't think I have any kind of a performance alignment shop close by but as a moderate setup I may just use what you have as a starting point and go from there.

Please get back and let us know how it works for you and what adjustments you make to it.

taking it to little tal--just tired of getting aligmnets plus bought set of nice yokohama s drives(great tires by the way--quiet but grippy) and didnt want to wear them out in 20K.
I rpobably need to invest in some kind of alignment tool and do it at the track If you can find a level patch of ground.
OD

hmm. help me understand why a stiff swaybar would hinder performance in any way?

stiffer bar=Less weight transfer to outside wheels=less traction in sweepers but faster transition in slalom.

ahhh.... so less ultimate grip, but faster change in direction. thanks

That's how I understand it.

I ran RB sways originally, front and back. My car was very prone to abrupt oversteer. After taking the rear sway off and going back to the OEM lighter weight sway, he car handles much more predictably. I left it there for the past 2 years. I also installed Tein Flex Coilovers. The combination works really well for me.

Well, got the Megans on and plan to give it a few days before I align it.

I need some input on my ride height before I align it. Is it too low?

Here are a few pics:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2119...37742059QCjopu

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2164...37742059ekYEpj

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2343...37742059nzRSSZ

No, check out my facebook track images, I think mine is about the same or lower than yours. Earlier pics with the nose bra, I think are before Tein Coilovers. Somewhere, I have mesurements from the ground to the mid point of the fender. If I can find that, I'll post for you.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...&id=1623564466

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1235782205

why dont we just mark the bolts--then at the track wrench them all the way to get as much we can then when its over just move them back?
cant be that simple.
olddragger

You don't want the fender lip lower than 25.5" ...I found it's better closer to 26"

That's where I am (following in Team RX8's footsteps) although with 25" diameter tires rather than 25.3" that Mark was running... that's only a nit (.15" ride height) and hardly more than a measurement error. That said, I like to contrast measurements from the center of the hub to the fender lip rather than the ground or wheel lip, due to tire/wheel variances.

Cheers,

Me too...but that was the only # I remembered without pulling out my book in the garage :)

Understand, the only reason I drug myself to the garage was to pack for a track day on Sunday and the tape measure was in the trunk... guess I should take your lead and write this stuff down somewhere... :eyetwitch :)


Barry

the koni challenge rx8s are running what would be 26" fender height, accounting for tire size.

and had a big note from one that dont drop the rear to low.. :)

beers :beer:

I think my rears are a tad higher than the front. I will measure and record too with both my 18" street tires and my 17" track tires.

Swoop, did you talk to Erick Meyer? I'm going to touch base with him. I'll get back.

the rx8 chassis --from what little i understand---likes a front rake--that is one reason i went with the konis and tein H springs.
Has anyone simply unbolted their rear sway for track time?
I have been reading and thinking a lot about suspension/tires/final drive etc and this coming w/e i believe i may play with this a little.
i may want to go with a softer shock setting on the front and more air pressure with a neg 1.2 camber(i do have nice caster!) so i can transfer more of a load to the tire that needs it.
I really have not played with airpressures or suspensions settings much--but i think i have reached a point to where now i can do so.
Look out Silver yall are going to see an OD that you have not seen before---God willing.
OD

Unbolting the rear sway would make for an understeering pig :)

Especially with an upgrades front bar...

My preference is to oversteer...way more fun :)

a little,

but he is a busy guy.. hope to chat with him in miami the middle of march.. i have something to show him..

btw, as denny said.. front rake!!! that info came from roar.

beers :beer:

Well, I'm not so sure about that. I have spoken to Rob Whitner of ROAR Racing and also just got off the phone with with Eric Meyer of Meyer Motorsports and taking the rear sway off is pretty common in Grand Am Koni series. Before you say no way, you may want to experiment with it. I just may try it next saturday at TGPR. OD, look forward to seeing ya dude.

EDIT:
I don't have any answer, but playing around with it Saturday could be fun. If I do take it off, I'll report back how bad she responds. Should be a good experiment. :) I'll also have video to show how it responds. Should be interesting. OD will have some as well.

Yeah, I think you're a tad lower. I think I should be ok then. From the ground to the midpoint fender lip I'm 26.25 in the front and 25.75 in the rear.