Alignment settings for street/track use
Registered
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,866
Likes: 4
From: Buford, GA USA
Spin, I'd try less tire pressure. I start about 34 with a goal of 38. That may give you more contact patch. You are definitely riding on the outside and your tires are going to cord prematurely on the outside. What tires were you running before and did you see that wear then? When I went to the R888 from the RA1, I saw much more tire wear and understand the R888's really need less camber. Mine were trashed after three events. Me not happy! The RA1's were awesome and laster many events.
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,036
Likes: 5
From: Colorado
I had RT-615s before on stock wheels before and now these are 255/40-17s on 17"x9" wheels. I saw no such wear before, but then I wasn't leaning on them anyway as hard as I do now. This is what they look like just sitting...
... you can see they are riding on the inside edge and not even touching on the outside edge. SilverEIGHT, wouldn't less pressure cause even more wear to the outside?
... you can see they are riding on the inside edge and not even touching on the outside edge. SilverEIGHT, wouldn't less pressure cause even more wear to the outside?
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,866
Likes: 4
From: Buford, GA USA
Ha... I see you toasted your exhaust shrouds as well! 
I'm not sure what to tell ya spin. I just know that when I went to 17's and got more aggressive, mine have done the same thing.
I'm not sure what to tell ya spin. I just know that when I went to 17's and got more aggressive, mine have done the same thing.
Last edited by SilverEIGHT; Jun 21, 2009 at 06:09 PM.
...but as you can see (I rotate them often) the wear is even, but at an even slant going towards the outside, then accelerates at the edges. From what I been reading here, more camber than what I run means uneven wear, but it looks to me like more is needed to get the inside wear rate up!
So it's time for an alignment and I wanted some input before taking the 8 in. Here's some background info:
Ride Height is 25.5 in. all around on 8K(front)/5K(rear) coilovers. Stock sway bars (I might add an MS front bar). 18x8.5 +30 rims with 245/40s.
The car is daily driven, but sees back road twisties, some autocross, and a few road course events.
I've come up with these specs:
Camber: -1.3 F / -1.5 R
Caster: -6.5
Toe: 0 all around
How does this sound? What should the cross camber and all those other settings be with these settings?
Ride Height is 25.5 in. all around on 8K(front)/5K(rear) coilovers. Stock sway bars (I might add an MS front bar). 18x8.5 +30 rims with 245/40s.
The car is daily driven, but sees back road twisties, some autocross, and a few road course events.
I've come up with these specs:
Camber: -1.3 F / -1.5 R
Caster: -6.5
Toe: 0 all around
How does this sound? What should the cross camber and all those other settings be with these settings?
Hot Pit
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
From: Castro Valley, CA
I had RT-615s before on stock wheels before and now these are 255/40-17s on 17"x9" wheels. I saw no such wear before, but then I wasn't leaning on them anyway as hard as I do now. This is what they look like just sitting...
... you can see they are riding on the inside edge and not even touching on the outside edge. SilverEIGHT, wouldn't less pressure cause even more wear to the outside?
... you can see they are riding on the inside edge and not even touching on the outside edge. SilverEIGHT, wouldn't less pressure cause even more wear to the outside?
when you go to track, follow a pro driver race car at turn, you will see when they turn the out side wheel is 90 degree to the ground, this is what you want on your car.
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,036
Likes: 5
From: Colorado
Well I had the car race shop aligned again and got it set -2deg all the way around. Seems to work great, haven't done enough damage to the BFG R1s (only about 6 hrs on them) to know what the wear pattern is yet. But as far as handling....amazing with no complaints!
Registered
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
My settings on a 09 R3 with the factory suspension (has 500 miles on it right now). Car is a daily driver and I'll be doing an HPDE or autox every couple of months.
front camber: -1.5 degrees
front caster: 6 degrees
front toe: 0
rear camber: -1.5 degrees
rear toe: 1/16 inch toe in
The settings from the factory were inconsistent and set very conservatively; I'd recommend an alignment to all new owners.
Edit: for those of you in the SF Bay Area, the alignment was done at Roger Kraus Racing.
front camber: -1.5 degrees
front caster: 6 degrees
front toe: 0
rear camber: -1.5 degrees
rear toe: 1/16 inch toe in
The settings from the factory were inconsistent and set very conservatively; I'd recommend an alignment to all new owners.
Edit: for those of you in the SF Bay Area, the alignment was done at Roger Kraus Racing.
Last edited by kster; Oct 12, 2009 at 03:48 PM.
My alignment results (I have a problem!!):
FL: camber = -1.6, caster = 9.0, toe = 0.02
FR: camber = -1.7, caster = 8.8, toe = -0.03
RL: camber = -1.9, toe = 0.06
RR: camber = -2.0, toe = 0.02
Ride height is sitting at 25 7/8" up front and 26" in the rear.
For some reason the tech couldnt get the front caster an less than that no matter how much he tried. It would just go up and up. He looked and said he saw nothing bent nor any indication that the car had ever scraped. Anyone have any idea why my caster is stuck so high??
FL: camber = -1.6, caster = 9.0, toe = 0.02
FR: camber = -1.7, caster = 8.8, toe = -0.03
RL: camber = -1.9, toe = 0.06
RR: camber = -2.0, toe = 0.02
Ride height is sitting at 25 7/8" up front and 26" in the rear.
For some reason the tech couldnt get the front caster an less than that no matter how much he tried. It would just go up and up. He looked and said he saw nothing bent nor any indication that the car had ever scraped. Anyone have any idea why my caster is stuck so high??
Rotor User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
From: Sweden
Yo Alignment buffs! I've read this thread and others here and can see there are lots of good suggestions and discussion about the best alignments, etc. for different situations.
I want to stop the uneven wear on my tires as shown by these NT-01 R-Comps. Any of you that have been there / seen this... then changed things for the better... please tell me how to adjust alignment to change this wear pattern, assuming it's not just inevitable because of track use?
OK, here's my alignment/corner balance w/my weight in the seat.
[IMG]PIC1[/IMG]
Here's what my NT-01s I look like right now. This is a bit over a year old set used for I'd say 38 1/2 hr track sessions, plus ~2500 miles street driving getting to and from. They're still track worthy, but are getting ready for replacement.
Now admitedly I work at wearing them down as often as possible...
[IMG]PIC2[/IMG]
[IMG]PIC3[/IMG]
[IMG]PIC4[/IMG]
...but as you can see (I rotate them often) the wear is even, but at an even slant going towards the outside, then accelerates at the edges. From what I been reading here, more camber than what I run means uneven wear, but it looks to me like more is needed to get the inside wear rate up!
Other setup... Whitline sways at medium front and rear...no overriding under/oversteer, and as far as I can tell cornering stays flat. I run 36-38 cold, 40-46 hot for tire pressure, depending on ambient temps.
Before buying new tires, that might be softer and so wear much faster .....I'd like to get this under control. What do you think i might change?
I want to stop the uneven wear on my tires as shown by these NT-01 R-Comps. Any of you that have been there / seen this... then changed things for the better... please tell me how to adjust alignment to change this wear pattern, assuming it's not just inevitable because of track use?
OK, here's my alignment/corner balance w/my weight in the seat.
[IMG]PIC1[/IMG]
Here's what my NT-01s I look like right now. This is a bit over a year old set used for I'd say 38 1/2 hr track sessions, plus ~2500 miles street driving getting to and from. They're still track worthy, but are getting ready for replacement.
Now admitedly I work at wearing them down as often as possible...
[IMG]PIC2[/IMG]
[IMG]PIC3[/IMG]
[IMG]PIC4[/IMG]
...but as you can see (I rotate them often) the wear is even, but at an even slant going towards the outside, then accelerates at the edges. From what I been reading here, more camber than what I run means uneven wear, but it looks to me like more is needed to get the inside wear rate up!
Other setup... Whitline sways at medium front and rear...no overriding under/oversteer, and as far as I can tell cornering stays flat. I run 36-38 cold, 40-46 hot for tire pressure, depending on ambient temps.
Before buying new tires, that might be softer and so wear much faster .....I'd like to get this under control. What do you think i might change?
Life begins @ 30 psi
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MD
I've been monkeying around with my suspension settings a bit recently and it definitely needs some serious work, so I figured I would post here and ask for suggestions.
I'm running on OEM shocks with Tein S-Techs (# Avg Lower: F(1.4"), R(0.7")
# Spring Rate: F(207 lbs), R(145 lbs) ) with 18x9.5 wheels with 265/35/18 tires.
I was doing a fair amount of canyon carving as I'm still in the tuning process for the car so I haven't hit the track yet. I went to 1.5% camber on the front with a bit of toe out and OEM caster and kept an equal camber rate on the rear, but I've found that I'm not getting enough contact patch with the rear tires. I'm turbocharged and the rear tires break traction through the first 3 gears. The rear swings out nicely around corners, but then just spins when I hit boost.
I'm still very much a noob when it comes to suspension tuning, but I'm trying to get enough contact on the rear tires to get consistent power without sliding like a bad drift movie when I accelerate. The current front camber settings don't feel too bad although maybe too much toe out as I'm getting accelerated wear on the front tires.
Thoughts/suggestions?
I'm running on OEM shocks with Tein S-Techs (# Avg Lower: F(1.4"), R(0.7")
# Spring Rate: F(207 lbs), R(145 lbs) ) with 18x9.5 wheels with 265/35/18 tires.
I was doing a fair amount of canyon carving as I'm still in the tuning process for the car so I haven't hit the track yet. I went to 1.5% camber on the front with a bit of toe out and OEM caster and kept an equal camber rate on the rear, but I've found that I'm not getting enough contact patch with the rear tires. I'm turbocharged and the rear tires break traction through the first 3 gears. The rear swings out nicely around corners, but then just spins when I hit boost.
I'm still very much a noob when it comes to suspension tuning, but I'm trying to get enough contact on the rear tires to get consistent power without sliding like a bad drift movie when I accelerate. The current front camber settings don't feel too bad although maybe too much toe out as I'm getting accelerated wear on the front tires.
Thoughts/suggestions?
^Is it possible that your tires just can't take the abuse of the power? Adding more negative camber in the rear might not help if the current tires you are using do not have the amount of grip needed...Which tires are you running?
Power!!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 3
From: Sunny See attle
You really neeed to check your tire temps across the surface to determine if you need more camber or not. They should be roughly uniform across if you're optimizing your alignment for the track you're driving. You should get a tire temp probe, run a couple hot laps and then immediately after your last corner pull over and check the temp on the inside, outside, and middle of the tire. If there's a significant difference in temp (more than say 10 degrees) between the inside and outside you should adjust your camber. more negative if the inside is too cold and more positive if the outside is too cold.
Most of us run less negative camber in the rear than the front - about 1/2 degree less. Typically, removing negative camber from the rear will help the car put the power down better, but it all depends on driving style, etc. As an experiment, you might try -1.0 in the rear, or even -0.5. You never know until you try, and there's nothing wrong with experimenting.
Life begins @ 30 psi
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MD
This mostly haha.
Yeah, I'm trying a few different things, it seems power exiting the corner isn't as bad as straight line acceleration. I just kick traction control on unless I feather the clutch or partial throttle. I think its a combination of a tad more negative camber than I need and the huge drop in temps with my summer tires (Federal 595s) getting very little traction now.
I have noticed that the car is getting a bit squirrely under heavy braking now, which it didn't used to do with the previous suspension setup. The rear end is skittering around a bit. I have OEM sways (mostly a street car atm) so no crazy stiffness on the rear suspension.
Once I start tracking the car, depending on how often I'm doing that, I might invest in some more extensive suspension mods like full coilovers.
I have noticed that the car is getting a bit squirrely under heavy braking now, which it didn't used to do with the previous suspension setup. The rear end is skittering around a bit. I have OEM sways (mostly a street car atm) so no crazy stiffness on the rear suspension.
Once I start tracking the car, depending on how often I'm doing that, I might invest in some more extensive suspension mods like full coilovers.
Registered
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
My settings on a 09 R3 with the factory suspension (has 500 miles on it right now). Car is a daily driver and I'll be doing an HPDE or autox every couple of months.
front camber: -1.5 degrees
front caster: 6 degrees
front toe: 0
rear camber: -1.5 degrees
rear toe: 1/16 inch toe in
The settings from the factory were inconsistent and set very conservatively; I'd recommend an alignment to all new owners.
Edit: for those of you in the SF Bay Area, the alignment was done at Roger Kraus Racing.
front camber: -1.5 degrees
front caster: 6 degrees
front toe: 0
rear camber: -1.5 degrees
rear toe: 1/16 inch toe in
The settings from the factory were inconsistent and set very conservatively; I'd recommend an alignment to all new owners.
Edit: for those of you in the SF Bay Area, the alignment was done at Roger Kraus Racing.
front camber: -2 degrees
front caster: 6 degrees
front toe: -0.02" (toe out)
rear camber: -2 degrees
rear toe: 0.04" (toe in)
Registered User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Hi!!!
I will do my first solo/autocross next month.
My suspension mods are RB swaybars and Goodwin links with stock shocks and springs. Will use the Enkei RPF1's with 9.5 width in BF Goodrich Racing DOT tires.
I will make the alignment soon but don't want to go before and after every event to align the car. What camber/toe setups haved you used that could help with the racing setup and will not damage my daily driven OEM tires.
Thanks
I will do my first solo/autocross next month.
My suspension mods are RB swaybars and Goodwin links with stock shocks and springs. Will use the Enkei RPF1's with 9.5 width in BF Goodrich Racing DOT tires.
I will make the alignment soon but don't want to go before and after every event to align the car. What camber/toe setups haved you used that could help with the racing setup and will not damage my daily driven OEM tires.
Thanks
Hot Pit
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 658
Likes: 0
From: Castro Valley, CA
Hi!!!
I will do my first solo/autocross next month.
My suspension mods are RB swaybars and Goodwin links with stock shocks and springs. Will use the Enkei RPF1's with 9.5 width in BF Goodrich Racing DOT tires.
I will make the alignment soon but don't want to go before and after every event to align the car. What camber/toe setups haved you used that could help with the racing setup and will not damage my daily driven OEM tires.
Thanks
I will do my first solo/autocross next month.
My suspension mods are RB swaybars and Goodwin links with stock shocks and springs. Will use the Enkei RPF1's with 9.5 width in BF Goodrich Racing DOT tires.
I will make the alignment soon but don't want to go before and after every event to align the car. What camber/toe setups haved you used that could help with the racing setup and will not damage my daily driven OEM tires.
Thanks
1/32 toe out
-1.5 degree rear
1/16 toe in
and get yourself a DD beater.
I'll snap his neck.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,233
Likes: 2
From: EVOLV-Chicago
Getting an alignment done this week. My car is a daily driver/track day car. It has RB sways, Tein H-tech springs, and Tokiko D-spec shocks.
I'm thinking of going pretty conservative because the car is driven in the winter in the snow, and my wife doesn't have much RWD experience in the snow.
I'm thinking of going with settings like these:
1.5 negative camber rear (stock)
1.0 negative camber front (a little more aggressive than stock)
stock toe and caster
Thoughts?
I'm thinking of going pretty conservative because the car is driven in the winter in the snow, and my wife doesn't have much RWD experience in the snow.
I'm thinking of going with settings like these:
1.5 negative camber rear (stock)
1.0 negative camber front (a little more aggressive than stock)
stock toe and caster
Thoughts?
Registered
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 12,255
Likes: 8
From: Buddhist Monastery, High Himalaya Mtns. of Tibet
If your car is going to be driven in rain, snow & ice; you need the oem settings to get the best tire footprint. Performance alignments are only good for dry pavement conditions.
The camber settings must work with the stickiness of the tire. Too much camber with a hard tire will cause the car to slide around, because you aren't using the full footprint of the tire. Just as too little camber with a sticky tire isn't optimum.
The camber settings must work with the stickiness of the tire. Too much camber with a hard tire will cause the car to slide around, because you aren't using the full footprint of the tire. Just as too little camber with a sticky tire isn't optimum.
Hi i will be getting allingment this week . this are my only mods: bilstein b12 suspension=eibach springs + bilstein b8 shocks , everything else is stock. i will be DD the car with occasional track days at the nurburgring in germany . suggestions?