SouthFL

It's been 10 months of daily driving and 6 track days logged since purchasing the RX-8 in December. The tracks have been Moroso, Homestead and Sebring.

Car setup (stock '06)--------------Frequency-----------------------------Planned Adjust.

Alignment (-1.2f, -1.4r, 0 toe)----realigned @ 6month mark-----------maintain these settings, good performance and treadwear even enough.
Brake Pads (Hawk HP Plus)-------3 track days/ 5 mo. DD per set-----Try Carbotech Panther Plus on DBA 4000 rotors next year.
Brake Fluid (ATE Super Blue)------Flush before every event------------maintain use, very pleased.
Tires (OEM Dunlop 8090)----------2 events still left on them-----------Replace with S-03's sitting in garage.

Handling characteristics with above setup: Car turns in fine. No understeer unless tires get greasy (or if you’re running on Sebring’s concrete surface). Car rotates plenty with trail braking. Lately, with tire wear, car rotates too much too quickly.

Track observations:

A) The most significant limiting factor are the stock Dunlops. They wear really nicely, don't chunk, heat cycle fine, but the limits of their grip leaves much to be desired. Grip has waned as tread depth has become shallower (unlike a shaved Max or R compund tire). I don't expect the S-03's to be all that much better, but any improvement is welcome. I don't want to step up to R compound for another year to master the handling characteristics of this car, as I'm still driving point and shoot style (due to coming from a WRX), while this is a momentum car. I've found consitently that 35 psi all around is a great pressure to work with at all 3 tracks I've visited.

B) On my first couple events, coming from a WRX, the RX-8 felt very balanced, very predictable, and compared to the pitch and lateral transitional movements of a WRX, the 8 felt very taught in lateral transition. Change in car being relative has run it’s course and now I feel the dampers need to be upgraded over stock, so I have a set of Koni’s sitting in the garage, waiting to go on. I’ll pair them with a set of H-Techs since I don’t want to lose too much clearance or comfort. From reading and asking around, 50% firm in front and 25% in the rear is what I’ll try out at first.

C) The HP Plus hold up really well at the track and I just keep ‘em on for daily driving. I’m curious as to how Carbotech Panther Plus compare in terms of dust and rotor wear. The pads do fine for 3 track days and 5 months of daily driving per set, and could probably do a 4th track day if need be (but I’m conservative about swapping them out).


In general, in a stock 8, I can’t keep pace with Spec Miatas on race compound tires through turn sequences- but I'm not too far off their pace (of course I can reel them in on straights). The closest match I’ve found to drive with has been a suspension modded, well driven, sticky tired Mini Cooper S. We virtually drove neck a neck and would yield track position back and forth to each other over the course of several laps- again, I could slowly reel him on straights, but performance was close through turn sequences. What's really cool is that I can pretty much brake as well as anyone out there in a street car- that's where I can catch some pretty impressive cars- in the brake zones.

All in all, this car has been everything I’ve expected it to be- a low maintenance trackable car that’s very rewarding in stock form. I’m ready to step up to a few basic mods to enhance the performance. The rate of replacement of wear items if few and far between. Very pleased, yet car needs another 75 horsepower

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

very nice writeup, results similar to what I have experienced with my mostly stock 8 on the track as well

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

a few hints if i may:
1- the konis will definitely change the braking behavior of the car--no more swishy tail on 9/10 braking. the car will like the konis---and good choice on the springs.
2- you didnt mention bars--but i highly recommend RB's WITH the end links
agency racing now makes upgraded end links for the rear--if you want to do the back bar --increased the camber in the rear--i run a 1.8 or a 1.9 --cant remember
3- ditch the carbo tech panter plus for the front--they are great on the rear and you dont have to swap them out for street/track but since the 8 makes up a lot of ground in the braking zones--get a better pad--like a carbo tech xp-8. You will have to swap these out for the track--but you can run them on the street for a little while so getting ready for the track is not a right now type of job. Those pads and r compound tires and you will be VERY impressed lap after lap. Seriously --NO street car will out break you--large majority will be shaking their heads. I run about 4-6 w/e events a year and one set last me all year. I run some hard braking tracks also.
3- 17" wheels with a 40 sidewall tire will really give you some grunt out of the corner and the wheels and tires are cheaper!!
4- midpipe--give a little power but it also allows you to hear the engine and do downshifts better
5- watch your cooling and your oil--plenty of info on this site--search!
6- get real gauges--if you track especially. I know plenty of guys who track and dont have gauges---but....
7- back seats out
8- change the trans and diff to synthetic--and change at least once a year
9- the axial flow short shifter helps on the track a lot. once you try it you will never go back.
10---have a *** load of fun!!!
olddragger

SouthFL

^
Thanks ZoomZoom, and great pointers olddragger.

Sways would be the next mod further in the future, as I like to layer the suspension mods one at a time to see exactly how each component affects the handling. I'm in agreement that at the end of the year, tranny and diff. fluids should be replaced.

Back seats out and swapping front pads for events however are beyond my laziness threshold Hehehe.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

I agree that pads should be changed. I don't agree with the backseats. We are not professionally racing. XP8s are fantastic.

SouthFL

It's true that a lesser compound in back will allow me to better modulate trail braking, with less back end stepping out on rotation at 9/10, so I should give it a try.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

exactly--it is a striking difference and trail braking can be invaluable for our car.
removal of the back seat --for our group --is for a few resasons---
1- takes 2 mins!
2- a little extra room for our track tires and wheels
3- then you can let the front seat all the way back and it makes a great single bed to spent the night in at the track.
4- easier camera mounts
5- saves a "little" wgt, but mainly you can hear your car better
on the issue of changing pads for the track---i ended up liking that-- it doesnt take long--about 30 mins once the car is jacked and wheels off and it is a good time to inspect everything.
this pre track inspection has saved my butt a couple of times---once i had a VERY small crack in a brake rotor and the other was i had a VERY small leak in a brake line.!!!!! Needless to say i was glad i looked.
also give you another hint--in hot weather tracking--take an extra fan belt with you and remove the a/c belt before you go out---it's only 2 bolts -takes maybe 3 mins. the alternator and the alternator pully will get a good bit over 200 degrees on a hot track day and we have had failures---not total ---but 2 ribs came off the belt on 2 cars..
get more camber in that rear end.
olddragger

costello

+1 on the XP8s for the front pads. They worked well enough at Roebling Road, even though it's not a brake heavy track. Once you go to a good race pad I don't think you'll want to go back to something less. I was able to drive to the event on these and they seemed to work ok even when cold.

I would also recommend the Toyo Proxies RA1s. Good tire for the track. They're have tread, so they howl like a street tire and give audible warning on what they're doing.

takahashi

Corner balancing!

I just have it done and testing it on Philip Island this weekend. Just driving on the road with Yokohama A048, it feels pretty good.

Aligned today as well. I think the 8 need more than 2 degree camber for the front.
I run toe out front (-1m total) and toe in rear (+3m total), pretty much what set up like for low powered car.

Tyres and pads are personal choice, but stiffen the car with bars and get sways, and coilovers are must.

RX8 JET

[QUOTE=olddragger;2039295]a few hints if i may:
3- 17" wheels with a 40 sidewall tire will really give you some grunt out of the corner and the wheels and tires are cheaper!!

I am intrigued by this. I am running w stock 18s on track because of $. What do you have to do to make the 17s fit?
To be honest, I saw another 8 at the track running 17s and didn't understand why?
Do you run 235 or 245 40 17s?

devildog1679

I run XP-8's in the front for track days and I love them. For the rear I run Carbotech Bobcats for both track and street, they work great as well.

Rosko350z

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think you wouldn't have to do anything to make the 17's fit. If you have a 18x8 with a 50 offset, then a 17x8 with a 50 offset would fit fine. Although, I'd guess you'd want greater width and an advantageous offset if you're tracking ... if the rules allow.

Why run 17's?
1. Cheaper tires
2. Cheaper to replace bent wheel
3. They weigh less
4. With a smaller diameter of wheel/tire, the FD ratio changes with slightly more acceleration and slightly less top speed. In other words, first gear might change from 32mph to 30mph. I don't know the exact numbers, but you get the idea.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

You don't need to do anything to make 17's fit. Lots of ppl use 17's for winter wheels, track wheels, etc. 16" rims will not fit over the brakes.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for making this thread SouthFL. I've had my car through 5 days of track this summer so this thread is very helpful as I'll have to start replacing parts soon. Lots of good stuff in here.

I agree, the stock dunlops take the beating very well. Too bad they aren't stickier. I was at a lapping day yesterday and I think I was almost the only person making the kind of noise stock tires do.

SouthFL

^
What's funny is that I get comments all the time as to how well the car does on track, then when people see that the car is still wearing 8090's they're extra impressed, knowing full well the tire's limitations.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

about the 17"s
advantages--17 inch tires are much easier to get. they are used a lot for qualifing etc in spec classes and people will sell you their qualifying tires very reasonably. how about a SET (4) of R 5 Hoosiers 225/45-17(remember hoosiers run wide) for $250 --dang things only had about 10 laps on them. Set of 235/40-17's for $300 etc,etc
weight savings--one of my track wheels --wheel tire and lugnuts is 40lb that saves 10 lbs a corner over oem!
just get a 17x8 or 8.5 and choose your tire --you really dont need anything over a 245 for hpde stuff.
olddragger

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

oh and by the way a 235/40 -17 toyo ra 1 makes the final gear equal to a 4:71!! HEHEHE
OD

mac11

iTrader: (1)

now you are arguing personal preference as fact.

TrackAddict

I don't know about that... The brake system is nicely balanced between front and rear from the factory. If you have different brake pads on the front and rear (XP8s and Bobcats) you have effectively biased the brakes more to the front. Race cars with a proportioning valve for changing the brake bias typically mess with it based on track conditions dialing in more rear bias on wet or slick surfaces so the front wheels don't lock as quickly under heavy braking and the rear can help slow the car more.
I also don't see how less friction in the back can help modulate trail braking. Now the Carbotech pads may help modulate braking better than the HP+ since all reviews I have read claim less initial bite but more progressive braking on the carbotechs.

SouthFL

On my 944 race car, I use HT-10 in front, Blue in back.
Lots of Miata guys run Blue front, Black rear.


This staggered setup avoids rear lock-up upon threshold braking (straight).

I would use XP8 front, Panther Plus rear.

As for how it would help modulate trail braking to keep the rear end from stepping out, although brake bias moves forward, there's less bite back there, thus allowing greater modulation. Too much bite back there and the back end is stepping out.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

Don't we have this Electronic Brake Force Distribution thing? Isn't that like an electronic proportioning valve?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Even if we do, it has no idea about the type of pad compounds are on the car.

TrackAddict

The majority of my driving experience on track is in the RX8. What has worked for me is the same compound f/r. Your expereinces may vary of course.

SouthFL

For what it's worth, I've had the staggered compound discussion directly with Hawk technical and many racers use a staggered setup. It's not uncommon at all. Also, for what it's worth, the 944 weight distribution is similar to the 8's.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

the 235/40-17 tire mentioned was meant to be the Toyo RA 1's. Several specs classes use those so they are more easily obtained for a reasonable price. Very correct--no hoosier in that size. but there are comparable tires in the height range mentioned.
olddragger