2k4_8

The biggest thing I could emphasize is don't go too fast on the first pass. I did that and looked like a moron when I kinda got knocked out of the seat a little and ended up bouncing it off the rev limiter for a few seconds. Tips I have been given include... two hands on the wheel! It gives smoother and more controlled inputs (I had a bad habit of keeping one on the shifter all the time). Looking ahead, and last but not least to begin my turn before I enter the gate so that the back tire almost clips the cone. Those were from other 8 drivers at a local auto cross and did indeed prove to be very very useful even though I didn't get to do as many runs as I wish I could have and employ them more

dknv

Not knowing where the course goes is a big noob mistake. Walking the course until you have the layout in memory is a good start to avoiding this. While you may not be able to get the entire layout at the beginning of autox'ing, try to get enough of it in mind so that you will not be surprised around every turn.

If you have traction control -- remember to turn it off. Hold that button 5 seconds or more until both lights are on. Otherwise, you are apt to get on course, feel the car behaving weirdly, and wonder why it feels like it is braking when you are not.

If you have MT, think about where you are going to shift from 1st to 2nd (or downshift if needed), and add that to your plan. (Actually, downshifting may be saved for future events, and in your first run or two, once you shift up keep it in 2nd gear while you are discovering how your car handles through the course.) Keep in mind that manuevers like shifting or hard braking will upset the car, so try to get those done in a straight line, and away from manuevers such as inside a slalom. Add to your plan, where you will apply brakes. This may take multiple runs to figure out where those points may be, and the shift and braking points can change. If you get through one element faster, you will come upon the next one faster, and therefore you may then need to adjust where your braking point is.

"Looking ahead" is a skill that is likely to take work, and time. The best thing I can think of in this regard, is to ride with a skilled driver who has the ability to talk you through where they are looking on the course -- to give you an idea of where you might try to put your vision when you are behind the wheel. That, and seat time.

Something I just shared with my newbie daughter on autox -- I used to hear people say, "if you're not on the gas, you should be on the brakes". What it took me a long time to figure out is that being on the gas doesn't necessarily mean full throttle all the time. For example, if you're going through a slalom, you may need to ease up or breathe the throttle, but that does not mean coasting!

Start to build your support network. You can get a ton of advice at events if you are willing to ask for help, at the right time. (i.e. this depends on the competitor, but some people don't want to be talked to when they have just come off a run, or when they are just getting ready to go out -- though most appreciate a "good luck" now & then.)

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

With out a doubt the number one mistake I see people make is they try to go to fast. The key to speed in autox is making the course as short as possible. This is not road racing, all a late braking wide fast line will get you is a slow time. Most newbies enter a corner to fast and when they feel the front end plow the step on the gas foolishly thinking they will brake the back end loose, most of the time this does not even work in a car with twice the power of an RX-8, only to make the car understeer more. Slow in =s fast out. Brake early and hard and get back on the gas early.

scsi

that reminded me of a mistake i see often is people trying to go too fast in the slow sections, and going too slow in the fast sections.

Cody Red

As stated, grip is the way you wanna go. Idk if you looked at that link, and saw the course I ran, and will be running this weekend, but there is a big hair pin and the best way to do it is to understeer!

I'll be doing some understeer at that corner, as well as going into first gear. I'm all hyped up.

Be open-minded. Try anything you can. Also, turn the DSC off after two runs. Feels a lot better IMO.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I would completely disagree with that. If any end of the car is slipping, understeer or oversteer, you are losing forward motion. The fastest way around any turn is with all four tires working within their limit, go beyond and you are just slowing down.

Also if your car has it turn off the DSC and TC for every run, it will only slow you down.

Derex'8

iTrader: (4)

+1 on making sure the DSC is off every run, heard some funny stories today of guys forgetting to turn it off. Man a wealth of info and advice hear

A reason why I asked about drifting is because while researching I cam across this site http://www.alberni.ca/articles/artic...ues/Page1.html I guess what works for one person doesn't necessrily means it works or applies to all..

As I get more experienced and understand my car better I'm sure I'll find what best suits my style of driving

Cody Red

I didn't say that was the fastest way, did I? I said for that particular corner in the course I'm talking about. Of course the fastest way around any turn is with all four tires working their limit...................................anyone knows that. I never said that wasn't. I just said be open-minded about the course.

Note that I said TRY it with DSC off after two runs and that IMO it feels better? I look at it as a way to appreciate it more when trying one way then the other.

Besides, I've only auto-xed once. I never said that was the way to go.....

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

don't believe everything you read on teh intrawebs

as always, consider the source, there's no skill required to blab on about things not understood as well as some people would believe ...

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Then why would you do it.

Oh yeah, then you should give advice.

Cody Red

Because when I DID do it, I improved my time by >1 second, which happened to be my last run.

I won't say a thing anymore since you have way more experience to talk over me. And even though when I say 'understeer for that particular pin', you probably assume I mean understeer like ****. Though, it was spoken about by all the locals that it was weird that slightly understeering gives the advantage on 'that particular pin'

And you're right, my advice isn't better than yours, he didn't say he wanted advice from frequent auto-xers only. I thought it'd be fine seeing that I'm still pretty new at auto-x, that I could share the knowledge I've gathered.

Nope, right?

Derex'8

iTrader: (4)

Oh I don't, my momma always told me to take everything with a grain of salt

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

So that was the only thing you did different on that run? You could not have picked up your time at some other places on the course? If you have done it one time you will find time even if you overdrive because you are making mistakes in a lot of places.
It is not a matter of how much or how little you push, it is a matter of how much time you lose which with any amount of understeer or oversteer you will do.
No he did not say who he wanted to respond. However to think after one event you can tell someone how to drive the course is crazy. I will also note you did not bother to tell anyone that you had only done one event when you gave your advice.

Cody Red

I wasn't saying 'how to drive the course' I just said be open-minded.

I have already figured out one other way to eliminate time, and the other ways will be figured there.

Derex'8

iTrader: (4)

Well didn't mean to start a argument, pretty noobish question I asked anyway, I mean look @ F1, nascar, GT, etc... It's all about grip. In certain situations though I would think oversteer would come in hand when car needs to be pivoted, but not to much...

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

This covers a lot of it:
http://www.dmvrscca.org/topten.htm

ANDY'S TOP TEN AUTOX DRIVING TIPS
By Andy Hollis
(Andy is a multiple National Solo Champion and an instructor for the Evolution Solo School)

Originally posted on Miata.Net

[Just got back from a weekend of teaching Evolution schools and thought I'd share some stuff that I must have said a thousand times.]

1] Position first, then speed. Positioning the car perfectly is more important than trying to attain the highest potential speed. For example, you will drop more time by correctly positioning the car nearer to slalom cones than you will by adding 1 or 2 MPH in speed. Same with sweepers (tight line). Same with 90-degree turns (use all of the track). Also, position is a prerequisite for speed. If you are not in the correct place, you will not be able go faster. Or at least not for very long!

2] Turn earlier...and less. To go faster, the arc you are running must be bigger. A bigger arc requires less steering. To make a bigger arc that is centered in the same place, the arc must start sooner (turn earlier).

3] Brake earlier...and less. Waiting until the last possible second approaching a turn and then dropping anchor at precisely the correct place so that the desired entry speed is reached exactly as you come to the turn-in point is quite difficult to execute consistently. Especially when you consider that you get no practice runs on the course, and the surface changes on every run, and you aren't likely to be in exactly the same position with the same approach speed on every run, etc. Better to start braking a little earlier to give some margin of error. And by braking less you can either add or subtract braking effort as you close in on the turn-in point. This will make you consistent and smooth.

4] Lift early instead of braking later. Continuing with the philosophy of #3, when you need to reduce speed only a moderate amount, try an early lift of the throttle instead of a later push of the brake. This is less upsetting to the car, is easier to do and thus more consistent, and allows for more precise placement entering the maneuver (remember #1 above).

5] Easier to add speed in a turn than to get rid of it. If you are under the limit, a slight push of the right foot will get you more speed with no additional side effects. On the other hand, if you are too fast and the tires have begun slipping, you can only reduce throttle and wait until the tires turn enough of that excess energy into smoke and heat. Don't use your tires as brakes!

6] Use your right foot to modulate car position in constant radius turns, not the steering wheel. In a steady state turn, once you have established the correct steering input to maintain that arc, lifting the throttle slightly will let the car tuck in closer to the inside cones. Conversely, slightly increasing the throttle will push the car out a bit farther to avoid inside cones. It is much easier to make small corrections in position with slight variations in the tires' slip angle (that's what you are doing with the throttle) than with the steering wheel.

7] Unwind the wheel, then add power. If the car is using all of the tire's tractive capacity to corner, there is none left for additional acceleration. At corner exit, as you unwind the wheel, you make some available. If you do not unwind the wheel, the tire will start to slide and the car will push out (see #6 above).

8] Attack the back. For slaloms (also applicable to most offsets), getting close to the cones is critical for quick times (see #1). To get close, we must move the car less, which means bigger arcs. Bigger arcs come from less steering and require earlier turning (see #2). Now for the fun part... When you go by a slalom cone and start turning the steering wheel back the other way, when does the car start to actually change direction? Answer: When the wheel crosses the center point (Not when you first start turning back!) How long does that take? If you are smooth, it takes .25 - .5 seconds. Now, how long is a typical person's reaction time? Answer: about .5 seconds. Finally, how long does it take to go between slalom cones? Answer: Typically on the order of 1 second. Given all of that, your brain must make the decision to begin turning the steering wheel back the other way just *before* you go by the previous cone!!

Since this is a mental issue, a good visualization technique to get used to this is to think about trying to run over the back side of each slalom cone with the inside rear tire of the car. To hit it with the rear tire (and not the front), the car must be arcing well before the cone and the arc must be shallow. Attack the back!

9] Hands follow the eyes, car follows the hands. 'Nuf said.

10] Scan ahead, don't stare. Keep the eyes moving. Looking ahead does not mean staring ahead. Your eyes must be constantly moving forward and back, and sometimes left and right. Glance forward, glance back. Your brain can only operate on the information you give it.

Bonus Tip: Don't forget the stuff in between the marked maneuvers! Too often we think of a course as series of discrete maneuvers. There is typically more to be gained or lost in the areas that are in between. Pay special attention to the places where there are no cones.




Permission to Publish below:

Andy Hollis Miata Forum Member Member # 3320 posted 18 March 2002 23:52

For those asking permission to reprint or copy elsewhere, no problem. I only ask that you keep my name attached for credit.

Thanks to DMVR's Rick Talbot for passing this along!.

scsi

lol..man i posted that already, 4th post in this thread

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...67&postcount=4

HarshJay

Man I sooooo wanna go AC my car!! Here in Calgary every friday night there is an open night for drags and AC at the local race track. I went two weeks ago, and the oval was being used for....... oval racing. Last week I just watched to see what it's like, how people drive, what the course looks like. This week I drive!!!!! Gonna bring a friend who's a talented photographer, get him to snap cool shots. I'm bugging him to race his Element as well, seeing as how there was a Firefly without a hood running the course last week.

blipblip

Don't hit those corner workers.

From Jackie Stewart
"(in a corner) Don't get on the gas unless you know you don't have to back off from it"

visitor

obviously you've never seen the ice man during qualifying. he dgaf about grip or no grip. he says "yesh, i think sho i'll make this track my bitch" and that he does. respeck.

Imp

"Go that way, real fast. When you see a cone... turn."

Carrera26

Andy is a great guy, and I've tried to soak up a lot of his knowledge. It's great to watch him out on track putting on a car control clinic on every single run. Yay for Des Moines Valley Region!

More than anything, ride with experienced people and have them ride with you. Whatever we say here on the forum is one thing, but having a very experienced racer tell you, point out how to apply it on that course, and then show you exactly what doing it that way feels like is utterly priceless.

I would actually venture to say that you could leave the TC on for your first few runs. There's enough to do with concentrating on the racing line and learning course layout without spending a ton of mental energy on keeping that back end under control. It's just me, but since you really won't be all that fast to begin with when you start and will be trying to learn so much, it's best to make the process as simple as possible.

+1 big time for Evolution School. Best $450 I ever spent, fantastic experience. Not only did I learn from bigtime national champs, but I got about 2 years worth of runs in a single weekend (a bit over 80 all told). It took me about a year to put everything I learned into action and make it habit, but I am looking forward to going back ASAP. You will want to have some experience before you go, though. They reccomend at least a season under your belt before you go to Phase 1.

HarshJay

Question....
I am still using the stock Potenza's.. should I increase the air pressure to prevent rollover onto the sidwalls? And if so, what pressure do you recommend?

kwescott

good question Harshjay. I used the Potenzas for half a season of autocross, so about 8 events or so. What I did was to find the pressure that brought the tire wear as closest to the wear edge as possible, just at the edge of rollover. I then wanted to stagger pressure given the cars overstear characteristics....so I increased the front one pound, and decreased the rear one pound....making for a 2 pound difference between front and back. I've know people who have used more of a stagger, and those that have kept the same air pressure, but have changed suspension components instead.

I am assuming you have a stock car, so I would suggest the staggered air pressure. I don't recall the exact pressure I used....but start high and look at the tire wear...and work your way down until you get to the edge of the wear indicator/roll-over point.


EDIT: Your sig says you have MS suspension....I would still recommend the staggered air pressures. Start at the pressure you normally drive on the street and go from there. Check air pressure between runs and blead air out so that you have runs at optimal pressures each time.

scsi

what i do with air pressures is i make them a little bit high, and in between runs i examine how much tread i using and lower pressures accordingly to try to make use of the full contact patch. like kwescott said, you can adjust tire pressures to aid in battling oversteer or understeer, but i have coilovers so i make minor adjustments there instead