crimson-rain

.

That should some it up.

My first time autox'n ever and my first time getting a chance to push the 8 no holds barred. If ever I've felt a car communicate back what's going on it's in the 8. This thing conformed to me like it was my own freakn body!!!! I never hit a cone nor strayed off course in all six runs. And a lot of vets out there were saying that it was a highly complex course. I started of riding with a a guy who was pushing an RX-7 3rd gen. He's got a little over a year doing auto x and showed me everything. That guy was awesome. His best time was 50.???sec if I remeber correctly. He's got a mid pipe, springs, and roll cage setup. I ran a 53.???sec for my best time. I've got a Borla cat back. Was that good??? My first run was 61, second 56, third 54, fourth 53.

Auto x'n made me realize what the 8 can do. It also taught me a lot about what I need to buy to get it to run better and be smoother. But seat time says it all. Although, those Potenzas heated up rapidly (I'm getting new tires man), they did ok.

If you haven't auto xed, do it. Your 8 will love you for it. :D :D :D

Section 8

That was me in the FD, glad you have fun man :D

And my fastest time ended up being a 49.8, I had too much air in my rears and the car was oversteering like crazy. No worries though, i'm picking up some victoracers next weekend :D

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

yeah Autocrossing is the best bang for your buck.....

Chrissss

I used to autox for many years, but got away from it as my old car just wasn't up to snuff anymore. I'm going to take my new 8 to a couple events this year, too, to 'explore' the hairy edge of this cars handling and see just what it can do.

Anyone have some suspension specs (specifically camber settings) that worked well for them in a stock 8 with the stock RE040's? The 8 has initial turn-in understear, which I hate, although it's easy to get the rear to rotate.

I don't want to overdo the correction in camber and have the tail waggin' the dog all the way around the course. :D

Chris...

crimson-rain

My bad dude. Your runs looked awesome from the side line. As far as tire pressure is concerned, I've read on this board somewhere where increasing or decreasing it on an 8 would hender it's handling prowness? Anyone know if this is true?

Section 8

It depends on the driver and your driving style and the tires you're using. I started autox last july, and it's only really been the last few months where I could start telling a difference in raising or lowering tire pressure. Generally if you're having understeer, you'd lower your front pressures. If you've got oversteer, you'll lower the rear pressures. There's a fine line though, because you don't want them so low that the sidewalls are rolling over on themselves.

Since you're just starting out, I wouldn't bother messing with pressures (other than to make sure that they are consistant between runs) for quite a while. As you get better and learn to feel the car more, then you can start experimenting. Right now you should concentrate on being smooth, learning the line of the course quickly, and developing good driving technique.

SilverEIGHT

Oh yea! I just did my first Autocross yesterday as well. We only got 3 runs as the rain from Hurricane Dennis was coming in. I'm envious; six runs would be awesome because it takes several before you start getting the hang of it. On the first run, did the adrenaline kick in when you were at the starting gate like it did for me? I haven't felt that rush in LONG time. It almost seemed like the first run was in slow motion. Being able to ride with your friend, I'm confident took 4 or 5 seconds off of your time. I know it helped me even though I got two DNFs to start with. The guy I rode with was flooring it when I would have been putting the breaks on. What an eye opening experience. I will be back! :D

pcimino

Search the tire/suspension thread. Apprently the RX-8 has camber and caster adjustments on both front and rear. Sounds like people are moving the front camber out to the max and then 1~1.4 degrees additional camber in the rear.

crimson-rain

Yeah, I really need to learn to control the car better. My last run I concentrated on just being smoother through the corners and didn't try to gun it so much. I even used second gear to tone down torque around those tight corners (the guy from P-Tuning told me to try using 2nd gear). I didn't think the time was going to be any good but the run was a 54!!! I was thinking more of like 65. That says it all; smoothness counts.

Actually, I wasn't as nervous as I thought I would be. Although, I did have Section 8 with me. But don't get me wrong, I was NERVOUS. But turn after turn, I began to get less nervous and more enlightened on how much I have to learn about myself and the 8. I think the most nerve wrecking part was my first run by myself though. WOOOOO MAN ..... I had to pee :o .

Imp

Visit the RX-8 Comptition (Racing) forum here. There's quite a bit of talk about how to set up an 8 to auto-x and there's a few National level guys like myself running them in BS with some good results.

As for suspension settings... Max front negative camber, 0 toe. Rear would be just a hair toe out with just a bit less camber than front. Only front castor is adjustable (with camber).

--KC

RX8_Buckeye

Hi, I will be participating in my first autocross event this Sunday in Toledo. It is a regional event, and so far I'm the only car registered in B-stock. My car is completely stock and the OEM Bridgestone tires have about 16,000 miles on them. I have read some of the advice given to other newbies. Maybe it escaped my attention, but I don't recall reading anything about whether newbies should leave DSC/TCS on, or turn it off. My fear is that it will cut out throttle at the slightest hint of oversteer, which could slow me down. On the other hand I don't want to make a fool out of myself by spinning out mid-run. What would you suggest? Any other tips?

Imp

Get an instructor to ride along with you, or to ride along with them (if they allow). Our region (NER) has a good novice program that will have a separate coursewalk that goes over the 'need to know' about the event and someone avaialble in the morning to answer any questions you may have.

A good thing to read is this: http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm

Disabling the DSC/TC won't put you in much trouble as long as you know and have the brains/willpower to run under 100% the 1st few times/events so you can learn where the course goes, what cones mean what, and other details like being smoo9th, looking ahead.. It comes with time. Not to say there's anything wrong with 100% throttle.. but going slow is not a bad thing in auto-x and is sometimes a little faster.

--kC

Dark8

Leave the DSC/TCS off. It's the only way YOU will learn how to control the car and not develop some bad habits. And for the record, a spin every now and then is a great adrenaline rush. And like Imp said, sometimes going slower will improve your times. It took me a whole season (slow learner) to realize I was trying so hard to go fast that I was going slower. Patience is our friend.

dmp

If you liked Autocross, a Great bargain in terms of dollars per driving minutes is to do a track day. WOT in the upper gears for some distances; elevation changes; off-camber corners...wow.

Dark8

But they are also harder on your car, cost more, and you take more risk that you can total your car. That is what keeps me auto-x'ing and not doing track days. When my 8 is paid off and I don't have to depend on it getting me to work for the next four years I will be signing up for every track day I can.....

dmp

it's a sports car. It's supposed to be used 'hard'.

And cost more - only initially. $190 for SIX 20 minute sessions is more dollar-for-driving-time efficient than $20 for three 60 second runs on a typical autox. I'm not trying to convert anyone - or steal autox fans away. I'd bet money, but i don't have the data to back this up, but I'm certain the risk of totaling one's car at a track day is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than the chance they'd total it en-route to the track.


btw, you are only about 7.5 hrs from Thunderhill!

:D

Imp

What about dollar for 'turning' time? There's pros and cons to both sports that have been debated since the beginning of auto-x/track days. The only way you can pick what you like best is to do both. The biggest/worst argument is comparing seat time between the two. They're two distinctly different animals. To do a track day for me would be close to $500 per event once you factor in all the costs BESIDES registration.

This thread is about auto-x... let's keep it that way.

I bet there's more auto-xes closer than that on any given weekend.

--kC
If road racing were any harder, they'd call it autocross.
Autoxers become good road racers but road racers don't make good autoxers.

dmp

[QUOTE=Imp]What about dollar for 'turning' time? [/url]

Let's see...15 turns at Thunderhill x 10 laps per session x 6 sessions? :D

$500 for whom? I can go to Pacific Raceways for $130 and race all day. Total cost? $130 + lunch + fuel. (shrug).

I thought it was about Crimson having a good time with his car? Again, it was a suggestion that (and this IS Possible) if he enjoyed one, he might enjoy the other.

I'd bet there are dozens more Autox events than Track events. AFAIK, Salem OR doesn't have a road-race track! :D

If Autocross were any more lazy, they'd call it 'sleeping'

Autocrossers can become good road racers when they learn to shift past 2nd gear.



:D

:goodnaturedjab:

:D

dknv

Or, a slight risk that another driver can run into you. But track days are alot of fun, different from autox, and I like them both, and finding a good organization to run with is important for beginners.

But back to autox, and spinning, just like KC said, it's ok to run under 100% your first time(s) out. Later, hopefully you'll get over being worried about spinning. If I was worried about it, I would never be getting better. A spin here or there (in an autox venue) has helped me discover the limits of the car, and what is happening to it's stability when I upset the car by stabbing the brakes, or by making changes to tire pressures, shocks, etc.
[Edit: 'about spinning' was for RX8_Buckeye]

MazdaRich

Autocross is a competition, while track days generally are not. That said I like to do both.

BlueRenesis82

I've watched autocross vids and i don't know how much fun it would be

clyde

So, you're not, like, you know, doing any extra maintenance like replacing your brake pads, rotors and fluid more frequently? Nothing else ever breaks or wears out and needs to be replaced? Okay.

Beyond that, direct participation costs, such as registration fees, vary greatly from track to track and club to club. It's not always possible to make an apples to apples comparison.

And when you're at the track, are you really "racing" as you said? Or are you just driving around a track?

clyde

Toe out at the rear? Still having that much trouble getting it to rotate? Of course, we're running more camber than we might need in back. More than one way to skin a cat, I suppose. :D

But yeah, max camber and 0 toe at the front.* When getting it aligned, make sure that you are sitting in the drivers seat. You'll probably be able to get more camber on one side than the other. If that's the case, you'll probably want to back out of one side so that it is even with the other...unless you'd rather have a car that behaves differently in left turns than right and might have some odd tendencies under heavy braking or acceleration.

*if you don't drive the car on the street much/at all, you might even want to try some toe out after a while. It's not something that you would want to do on a car that you drive every day on the street as it will make the car very twitchy and nervous while wearing the front tires quite quickly The benefit on an autocross course isn't worth the real world downsides on a street car, IMO.

Stop&TurnFreak

Ok, being a literal track *****, and my wife being an autocross feind, I can speak to the differences between open-track and autocrossing. Granted I drive an Evo, but the differences should be the same.

For her, I can setup the car, run all day, with minimal wear on the car, (7-14 runs) depending on whether she does the practice / pro day before. A set of tires lasts her about a season, and pads are about the same. Also, with fuel costs going up, she ususally will go through one tank, total of race gas, if she wants high boost, which most of the time she doesn't.

Now, for me, going to the track for a day. I will break this out into hours, rather than days, because some of the events I do are private track days.

Tires = @ 6 hours if rotated properly
Fuel = @ I can get @ 1 hour per tank at high boost (18+)
pads = @ 2.5 hours front / 6 hours rear
Oil = @ 4 hours per change, but I don't rotate the filter every time.
Other fluids = every 5 events

This is a rough estimate, granted, this is all subject to how hard I push the car. I went through the stock Advans in 2 days (4 hours) at a track event at CMP, and one set of pads per day, running with the PCA guys in their test and tune session for their race series. Granted I only know of one other person to get a 1:53 out of a stock Evo at CMP, which is what I was lapping at that day.

Now, for me, I enjoy Autocrossing more than tracking, because I think it is more precision driving, rather than '***** to the wall' driving. I can 'typically' go anywhere and be quick, not fast, but quick, but rarely do I place in the top 3 at an autocross. In fact, rarely do I ever beat my wife. I just find it more challenging from a driving stand point, and a suspension tuning standpoint. Plus, it is ALOT cheaper than spending two days at a race track.

However, either one is about the most fun you can do with your clothes on.

BlueRenesis82

Wow, only 1 hr per tank at high boost? nutty.