Kane

iTrader: (1)

Too many variables. EMU or Blue or Int-x is irrelevant, it is the tune that is stored on those systems that determines the fuel into the engine.

RG was working on porting Charles Hill's engine and had clearance issues with the water jacket, etc. If you want conclusive proof, send me the logfiles from the before and after dynos and I will tell you exactly how many Cubic Feet of air the engine is pumping, then you will have all the proof you need.

GrRx8MaZdA

Its not just the tune my friend...If it was just the tune we wouldnt have so many ecus options...The best "hardware" and the most options and controlling and ecu gives the tuner,the best output you ll get..Thats why the microtech-interceptor pulled more with same pressure etc from a blue emanage with same setup...

Kane

iTrader: (1)

Well ok, you are right to the extent that the Int-X doesn't have to deal with the PCM, so directly is has better control, what that physically means is that the total amount of fuel to the engine is different and are therefore different tunes. Even if you want EM Blue to put X amount of fuel in, the stock PCM still might mess up your plans. That is why this kind of stuff is so hard to prove, it is a moving target. But if you take your actual amount of fuel in and your actual Air Fuel ratio, you will know how much air is flowing as well. So if the ported engine is breathing more air, then viola!!! You have your definitive answer.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

As an added note, I liked the video. Was totally worth the 1 hour download on my crappy connection here!!!!!

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

so theres no physical proof of a benefit, other than your butt dyno?

im not doubting that there is A benefit to porting. Especially on the older 2 and 3 rotor motors, its very much proven. My point is, the ports on the renesis are already large, and no one has yet to show if their is a benefit in making them larger. I dont know how you can keep arguing that fact. Im talking about the benefits of porting a renesis and your using examples from people who have ported previous rotaries.

NOW - im not saying that there 100% is not a benefit. I am just saying i have yet to see it on this car. I like your example of there being no benefit on an NA renesis or Greddy Turbo'd renesis, but if it was a mazsport turbod renesis there would show benefit. So how many people would this benefit, and why should everyone and their mom start portig their motors?

The days not over and people are still experimenting with porting a renesis. I wish them the best and hope to see something come out of it. Up until now, it has yet to be shown tho.

Keep looking up thereads on 7club.com and using that info to post here. Clearly we are talking about to different things.

-hS

AdRoCK3217

Honestly, I don't understand why this is so hard for you to get. Ability to flow more air = beneficial. Whether or not you use it to the extent that it actually shows up in numbers is all on you. But the FACT is, if the flow bench tells you that it is flowing more air than before, then it is a BENEFIT!

I never said everyone should start porting. I said if your engine is already blown, and you are cracking it open anyways, why not?

You are acting like the Renesis is a brand new motor or something. Well believe it or not buddy, it's NOT. Yes, the intake ports are revised, and the exhaust ports are now on the irons instead of the housings. But no, this does not nullify the fact that increases port volume will in all cases (except when ported incorrectly, of course) increase potential power.

One more time: "Previous" rotaries are NOT all that different from the Renesis.


Edit: My butt dyno is not in question here. The ability for a car to make full boost 500rpm sooner is not magic...

SE3P_HKG

Wow, very neat package!! Specially those SSR rims.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

orly? then how come it hasnt been documented on this motor?

once again - im not saying its not possible, im just saying it hasnt been done yet. and im also saying the idea of more air flow capacity always equals more power - is dumb. if that were the case - everyone in the past who ported a renesis would have something beneficial to show from it.

-hS

Mauros piravlos

How did you conclude this?
And don’t tell me because it’s not smooth - linear.

Jay the following video is for you, only the tuning job and its ready…madness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXeN2wEY2ww

An peraso? Ekei tha kataskinoso xaxaxa
Pote tha sou erthi epitelous?

Tora pou to skeutomai, paizi kai na min xoras na mpeis, sto pezodromio tha to ftiajei?

AdRoCK3217

Maybe because not enough people have torn down the engine?

Most owners of 2004's are just getting out of warranty, and many of them will (hopefully) have trouble-free engines for many hundreds of thousands of miles. Only the die-hard enthusiasts will tear their engines down "just because". A vast majority of engines that DO blow will get rebuilt to factory specs..again, only the die-hard enthusiasts will do any porting, modifications, etc. to the motor.

There is also the (probably large) faction of enthusiasts, such as yourself, who, even when faced with the option of porting a blown motor probably wouldn't, just because there is no documented proof for this exact engine. (Aside from that, the intake port on this engine isn't drastically different from that of the earlier 13B's, so, it shouldn't NEED to be documented..)

So that leaves a very small population who will port a Renesis in the near future. I expect people like you will not be believers for many, many years down the road, when more and more Renesis' are calling it quits and requiring rebuilds. Up until about 1999, no one would believe the 3rd gen RX7 could ever make more than 285ish rwhp on stock turbos...simply because it wasn't "documented"

GrRx8MaZdA

Kosta tha xaro na ta poume...Pos kai pos perimeno epitelous meta apo treli kathisterisi mou ipan oti auti ti vdomada tha stiloun isos ola ta parts...An prolavo tha katevo prin tis 20 allios arxes arxes augoustou...Les sto pezodromio???Kali fasi tha psisoume kai tpt!!

khronos

A perfect video for a perfect car!!!!

Kosta my friend you know I like your car as much as I like mine!!!

Antonis my friend this is MY car and it is FULL TUNED NA and NO ported at all!!! and the torque is not 21,2 but a HARD EARNED 21,5!
Please check your papers again!!!

Kostas car PORTED but UNTUNED that same DynoDay produced 217,7HP and 20,6Kgm.

For everyones information, bellow you will find a pdf of our DynoDay attached as well as my dyno!

Telosss!

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

honestly. when i do pop my motor - ill probably get it ported. so yeah. well see.

btw - more people than you think have already done it on the 8. My thing is... most were on NA Applications. Since i am boosted, i think the possibility there will be benefit is much more likely. Not 100% - but more likely

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Mauros piravlos;1962226]How did you conclude this?
And don’t tell me because it’s not smooth - linear.QUOTE]not only is it not linear... but its ALL OVER the place, that torque curve of death isnt helping either. if my laptop didnt get stolen i could point out the difference between ur plot and mine.

Next time u get a dyno done... get an AF reading on the printout. We can help you out more with that info.

-hS

Mauros piravlos

Just like my friend Khronos said, my car NA and UNTUNED produced 217,7HP and 20,6Kgm but we never tried to tune it in NA stage, just happened to had that dyno-day when we put the ported motor back on.
Actually I went to dynamometer today and I took a printout with the AFR from that day it’s not the final run but it’s something. But my tuner said that it’s not correct, we are at 10.5 – 11.5 according to his Air/Fuel Ratio Meter connected to the catalytic converter, not to exhaust like dynos.
I would like your opinion.

SoFL_RX8

I agree with this point. If the Greddy setup is running out of breath on the stock porting, I doubt youd see much gain from a Greddy kit. With a larger turbo, however, like the Mazsport, you'll actually be able to put the extra flow to use. Makes sense to me.

NA cars see no benefit from porting because the ports are plenty large for NA power already. Makes sense to me.

Ill be interested to see if with a larger, more efficient turbo than the Greddy, what the gains would be. Im willing to bet that there are significant gains to be had, but not at 6-10 psi. At 15+psi Im sure the porting would start to make more of a difference.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. Someone will take the leap eventually.

GrRx8MaZdA

I m sure about porting 100%..In some days i ll have my mazsport 3 in my hands and i ll port also the engine and tune it in 0.7+ bar...We ll see...But thats just cause i believe all the money is the porting job...

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

if you could do a before/after porting with teh mazsport turbo - that would be very helpful. if not - then we cant see what gains porting did.

-hS

AdRoCK3217

This isn't entirely true. While it is not yet proven on the Renesis, increasing port size on a rotary usually decreases power down low, while having more power available up high. For instance, a stock NA 13B in a 7 will usually run out of power around it's factory redline, or a little bit before. (7000rpm for S4, 8000rpm for S5). However, a bridgeported NA 13B will not show peak power until 7000rpm+, and will not run out of air until well past 10,000rpm.

Now I realize your rebuttle will be "oh, well, this is on a 7, not an 8" but this is simply void. The ports are shaped differently on the 8, and are yes a bit bigger, but they certainly don't flow as much as a well-made half or full bridgeport, and most likely not even as much as a monster streetport.

To sum it all up in a few words: Porting on an NA rotary WILL cause benefit, but the gain will be higher power at higher RPM.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

So you cut giant ports and they dump into the tiny exhaust outlets and this increases power how exactly?
I have two words for you - flow bench.
Until then, there really isn't much to say about the matter.

Mauros piravlos

Let me understand what you are suggesting
1 get your motor off
2 rebuild the motor
3 get your motor back on
4 install the turbo kit
5 do the tuning job
6 dyno
7 uninstall the turbo kit
8 get your motor off again
9 do the porting
10 get your motor on again
11 reinstall the turbo kit
12 retuning
13 dyno again

Hmm…

Kane

iTrader: (1)

If you wanted PROOF, then you would have to do something like that yeah... that is why it is seldom done.

1 - Turbo w/o porting Dyno run or log
2 - Turbo with porting Dyno run or log

If someone already had a log or dyno from turbo and THEN decided to port, it would not be that much extra work. But if they were doing the port and turbo install at the same time then it would be a huge PITA. Even with flow bench testing, you can never be 100% sure how much air the engine will actually be breathing at any one time without an actual series of runs...there are too many variables, such as air turbulence and velocity that need to be directly measured. Same thing if you put shorter intake runners on, it will breath better up top, but lose some on the low end. The amount of difference is unknown without testing.

Mauros piravlos

I agree with that but who will do porting without changing anything in the motor? New seals at least? You can never be 100% sure.

Kane

iTrader: (1)

True! Any mod that doesn't change VE too much can probably be ignored, but the "you never know" part is a tough one to crack. Unless a company wants to make $$$ off it, then it is worth it to them; or should be.

BigOLundh

iTrader: (1)

yes