zoom44

its a us impact reg that doesnt take effect until 2011

Symbioticgenius

I stand corrected. Thanks Zoom.

That 2011 Date flows perfectly with the 8 year projected RX8 Run. Hmm...

robrecht

I'm sure it's just PR writers confusing things, but there are cotinuing reports on the web that the RX-8 in Frankfurt will have "a more efficient Wankel engine boosting performance and improving consumption." Google the quote and you'll find several hits today and earlier at lesser sites, but nobody really expects the 16x to debut in Frankfurt.

ASH8

I think they are confusing the issue, it is the Series II RX-8 what Germany (Frankfurt) is getting as they have not had this model release..

The so called 'engine efficiency' would be the changes we know about, EMOP's, 'improving consumption' may be the Oil Consumption, as it appears S2's are using less engine oil.

Mine certainly does compared to other 8 owners, and I don't baby mine.

robrecht

I've seen several repots of higher oil consumption with the Series 2 engine. Can you clarify what you mean about engine efficiency? It also seems that, with the new gearing, the Series may get slightly less fuel economy. Your interpretation seems a little strained and it does not account for the "boosted performance" claim. I think some poor misguided copywriter confused talk about the Series 2 with what's been released about the 16x and just assumed they were one and the same.

Symbioticgenius

To my knowledge, the Oil consumption is more stock vs stock, however most -08 owners have increased this rate via AP and other means, which is the discrepancy.

ASH8

I can only go buy what I use in my S2, 200 mils (less than a cup) every 1000 KMS (600 miles). Series 1 with the last "Flash" MSP16 is using a lot more.

My comment about "efficiency" is taken by a more efficient MOP system, which it is.
It is more efficient in distributing oil along the Apex seal.
Less oil is going to the "Outer" two oil weepers/nozzles.

IMO Mazda have said the 16X uses less oil, this can only be achieved by a more "efficient" MOP system.
Pics of the 16X show exact same number of injectors and layout as the Series 2 RX-8.

"Your interpretation seems a little strained", don't know what you mean.

It has been confirmed long ago that ALL the so called "media" on a new RX-8 at Frankfurt is in fact the Series II, nothing else.

The Series II RX-8 has 4 years to run.

ALL Old News..

robrecht

Your interpretation doesn't seem like the normal meaning of these words: "a more efficient Wankel engine boosting performance and improving consumption."

I think it much more likely that "more efficient" is probably meant to describe greater fuel efficiency, not more even distribution of oil to the center and ends of the apex seals. Likewise, and similarly, "improving consumption" would usually imply fuel consumption, not oil consumption. Your oil consumption may be less, but others have reported more so we're not sure this is generally true. Nor have I heard Mazda make this claim about the Series 2 anywhere else that it is already marketed. Have you? Finally, your interpretation does not give any account of what might be meant by "boosting performance." We've heard Mazda make all three of these claims about the 16x, but I don't think we've ever heard Mazda make any of these three claims about the Series 2. So I think some poor copywriter is just confused. I don't think this an official Mazda press release.

ASH8

Well you asked for my Opinion and I have told you, I never said anything about 'boosting performance".

My Opinion on being "more efficient" is in Oil Delivery method/use, which it is.

I have read about the EMOP set up being more efficient and better lubricity, also read Mazda's claim that new gen rotary will use less oil.

There is only one area where less oil use can be achieved and that is in Metering Oil Pump set up.
.
I also had this confirmed from a dealer that the EMOP in S2 is from the 16X design.

The Frankfurt article is talking about the "new" RX-8, which is the Series 2.

As we know the changes between the two series are all all "external".
None of the engines internals have changed.
These engine changes are..
Two EMOP's
2 Less Fuel Injectors (6 port)
Revised water pump, radiator, fan motors.

So where the Journalist gets his copy from is probably Mazda Motors Europe.
Any other so called gains are very minor or losses..I see more losses in the S2.

Changed diff ratio, quicker off the mark, but slower 0-60 because of 2-3rd gear change.
Fuel Consumption is slightly up in S2's.

So where are the "efficiency gains".

From what I have been told from my dealer here MSP16 Flash has cranked up the MOP in S1 to max, so more oil is being used than originally 'engineered' for.
As James from Australian Motors Mazda said, the 6 nozzle EMOP deliver method is more precise than any other systems they have had.

What I have read here is many S1 owners are using more oil than I do, and I don't nanny my car.

To answer the "Boosting Performance", the publicists jargon, I call it Higher Diff Ratio.
"Improved Consumption", I call it Engine Oil, as S2's use slightly more gas.
"More Efficient", I call it...see above., it could be other things too, more "efficient" in cooling as there is another fan speed?

ASH8

This is some info from Mazda Europe, on the new RX-8 at NAIAS..

•
RENESIS naturally-aspirated dual-rotary High Power engine producing 170 kW / 231 PS at 8,200 rpm and 211 Nm of torque
•
Drive shaft torsional rigidity increased by approximately 30 percent for improved driving performance and NVH
•
Differential gear ratio lowered for improved performance feel
•
Two knock sensor system (a Mazda first) introduced for improved engine knock control
•
•New lubrication system for optimised engine performance
New oil dip-stick location for easier oil level checking
•
Fuel tank volume increased by 3.6 litres to 65.4 litres
•
New six-speed manual transmission (based on 3rd-Generation MX-5 unit) with carbon synchronizers (1st to 4th gear) for better shift feel.

ASH8

Could be the "Increase" in Fuel tank capacity??..

Don't know where they get the "Drive Shaft Rigidity" increase from as both Series have the same identical drive shaft Part Number?

Complete Doc here....

And Mazda Motor Europe Press Release on FMS, nothing said about the RX-8?

ASH8

From 2009 Factory Service Highlights...

METERING OIL PUMP CONSTRUCTION/OPERATION [13B-MSP] Construction
! An electric metering oil pump system has been adopted to optimally control the oil injection amount for effective
oil supply and lower oil consumption.
! The electric metering oil pump consists of the metering oil pumps No.1 and No.2, center oil nozzles, side oil
nozzles, oil control valve (OCV), oil pressure sensor, metering oil pump driver, PCM, oil hoses, and oil tubes.

I , (S2 Owners) actually use more engine oil in Winter or when Coolant Temps are below 60c (140F)...

Ignition switch off function
�� Engine startability at cold temperatures is improved by discharging engine oil while the ignition is switched off.

�� If the engine is started with the coolant temperature lower than 20 ��C {68 ��F} and the ignition is switched off
with the coolant temperature lower than 60 ��C {140 ��F}, the PCM calculates the necessary oil amount based on
the coolant temperature. The PCM controls the metering oil pump driver until the engine rotation is completely
stopped.

In Winter when I turn off engine I hear EMOP's release oil into motor, Summer time this function does not work...
So I am using less oil in Summer, and I am not imagining this.

robrecht

Thanks, I hadn't seen that before. Maybe those complaining of high oil consumption on the S2 were during winter time.

But I still don't buy your interpretation. Maybe I've worked with too many copywriters.

ASH8

No Problem,
But where do you think the "more efficient Wankel and improving consumption is at?

The S2's actually use more Gas than Series I's. not by much though.

We can perhaps both concede that the oil consumption volumes are minor, much depends on weather, location and individual driving style.

Performance, the S2 is slightly slower than S1 because of Diff Ratio.
But yeah, press releases always tend to "exaggerate" claims.

shazy

well how does that change anything... the end of 2nd gear for the S2 is 101-102km/h. That's about 62.4mph.
If anything it should be just as fast or faster due to the lower gear ratios. Maybe the S2 is actually down on power... who knows.

robrecht

I just think this is a confused reference to the 16x, especially because they talk about improving consumption and boosting performance at the same time. Some people have just conflated the Series 3 intro with the hype about the next generation rotary and just assumed that it's all happening now.

robrecht

I think the older ratio made made more effective use of the power band for the 0-60 time.