Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Who knows? Dreams do come true sometimes! By the way, they're built using the same architecture not platform.

Your friend Paul.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'd say that if Mazda made the only new Rotary as an optional engine available for the MX-5, it would be risking a hell of alot less than trying to put it in a different car, even if on the same platform, much less an entirely different car. Put a different body on it, make it a coupe, but everything else the same, and guess what... cost savings.

I'd buy it and park it next to my 8.

Marklar

Dropping a rotary into a Miata doesn't solve any problems.

For one thing, it's not that simple, the reason the 8 handles so well is that the whole car is built around the compact lightweight engine. Turning the MX-5 into a rotary requires more than a simple engine swap. Look at the location of the engine in the 8, and compare that to a Miata. Think of the balance issues. The Miata has fantastic handling as it is, throw in a rotary with few other changes and you screw that up.

In any case, the problem isn't the chassis. Mazda is really good at building a rigid, lightweight, awesome-handling chassis that doesn't cost a lot. They do it on all their cars across the product line. The 8 isn't hurting from a poor platform.

Making a roadster with rotary engine would increase performance due to lighter weight, but it's not as if Mazda hasn't had that option all along. They already have a successful roadster though, why invest in a rotary version that would be guaranteed to cost more and sell less? They could throw on a hard top and call it a coupe, but still, they'd have to change a lot more than that to make the package work.

To sell two sports cars side-by-side they need to differentiate between the two with more than just a different engine, which I suspect is why the 8 has usable back seats and a decent trunk. Ever gone grocery shopping in a Miata? I have, it sucks. Not to mention passenger space. This is what gives the 8 a lot of its appeal.

I think the real problem Mazda is having with rotaries is carbon build-up. The side-ported Renesis has impressive gains over the old 13B in NA form in both power and efficiency, but it pays a price in carbon build-up. This is why Mazda didn't go with side ports a long time ago.

I guess they thought they had the issue worked out with the introduction of the Renesis, but guess what happened? Lots of engine replacements due to carbon lock.

I suspect that this is what is going on with 16X development. I'm sure they have seen plenty of gains in power and efficiency, but they really have to get the carbon issue sorted out before bringing it to market. And I'm sure it ain't easy, it's not as if they haven't tried before.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

i wonder if mazda should have water injection on the 16X?
OD

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Denny, you know I love you brother; but do you really think of water injection as a viable addition on a production car? Especially one that uses odd stuff like oil metering already? The more the rotary becomes like the piston engine the better, except that it retain it's buttery smooth characteristic.

Paul.

Spin9k

...when something is expiring right in front of your eyes, out of respect, you certainly overlook small cosmetic flaws, yes? OTOH...at least it will die smiling lol.

pking1122

I, for one, would never consider an MX-5 sized car. I'm 6'1" 240, and fit comfortably in an 8. Anything smaller would look ridiculous.

ASH8

A bit like the Cheap looking two tone interior leather seats/wheel, the Ugly rear with cheap black plastic muck, taillight's busier that a Bishops Hat.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Jlvelez

Somthing like the formula 1 KERS would be perfect.
http://www.gizmag.com/formula-one-kers/11324/

Brian Major

iTrader: (1)

this might sound sacrilegious but i wouldn't mind seeing a marrying of the mazdaspeed3's motor to the rx8's chassis. I love the rotary but with the current automotive trends leaning towards fuel efficiency this would be the best short term solution to mazda's slow sales of the 8. Of course they would need to change the name and a lot of the body panels but they would have a killer sports car with a small investment.

kvndoom

*IF* they decide to stop rotary production again, or find that it's going to take longer between the end of the 8's run and the 16x, then I'd like to see this too. That chassis is too slick to go to waste.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

you are right Paul---desperate times calls for desperate thoughts?
Thats my excuse anyway
peace out
OD

ccd

Anyone want to take a guess as to when we will get official word from Mazda regarding the future of the RX-8. I though it might be the Detroit Auto Show since that was where the '09 updates and R3 were announced two years ago. Obviously, that auto show came and went with no word. Now I have no idea. I think the LA Auto Show is in the Summer, I would think Mazda could wait no longer than that for an annoucement

Spin9k

I'll guess.. there will be no announcement. One day, at a point when they are announcing the next model yr changes, and conveniently as inventory of RX-8s is at an all time low due to little to no scheduled production, Mazda will say it has been 'dropped from the lineup' for the upcoming model year.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Spin, you are super negative about any future rotary car. I'm rather sure it's coming.

Paul.

Old Rotor

Don't worry be happy. The doom and gloom in the seventies sounded the same.....then came the RX-7.......Mazda was all over the news. It was light(dealers were marking them up and customers weren't happy and Mazda got on the dealers), sexy, girls would flag me down and want a ride(I'm to old for that now). Keep up your hopes!

bhop

^^^ Truth, lol. I believe Mazda will come through. Can't rush perfection though haha.

ASH8

I recall the very first RX-7 (SA22C) my Dealership Got...

Well.. the first was actually a Japanese Spec display (Yellow) that went around each state dealer's showroom for a week.

When the selling stock arrived (one car) I had the privilege of picking it up from Bond Store, our first 7 a white RX-7 with Wine Red Color Interior..manual of course.

The drive back to my dealer was about 20 minutes (with a trader license plate on the back), I decided to go the LOONG way back through the Adelaide Hills, I was only 21 at the time.

I could not get over how light they were and the Swivel Feeling when you moved the car right to left quickly...was like there was a pivot pole in the center of the car.

Almost ran out of Gas, the Sale Manager asked Why I took so long...Got talking to my Wholesale Parts manager didn't I......

Not long after the release Mazda Japan sent ALL dealers a Seiko wall clock, about 2 ft by 18 inches, of a Mach Green RX-7 with a small silver hands analog clock in the RH top corner mounted on a shiny print with wide aluminum look frame boarder...

ONLY one per dealer, I managed to get one...that would be worth something today, I can't remember what ever happened to mine.

The clock was very similar to this pic...

ccd

I didn't start this thread to speculate on what comes next AFTER the RX-8. There has been plenty of speculation on other threads about that. As I look at the meager info available, it seems very likely that this model year will be the last for the RX-8 and that there will be a gap of a year (or more) until Mazda introduces any new rotary (if it decides to do so). There is simply too little info to speculate about the timing of the introduction of any new rotary or what form it will finally take.

So I am expecting an announcement about the RX-8's future independent of any announcement about its successor. It will probably be buried in an announcement about other models, but I do expect some kind of announcement. The question is when it will come

Old Rotor

That white RX-7 you speak off is the same model I got in May of '78(first one the dealer got). The only thing I did not like about it was it had a 12A and the RX-4 I passed on to the wife had a 13B. Now since the '7 came with A\C the wife had to have it installed in the '4 too. The extra weight up front ruined the great balance feel it had before. I was 31 so ASH8....I'm old...

adviceinst

If I may add a little fuel to everyones fire about what is going on with the 8. I just got the word from a Mazda insider that there are currently no 8's in production right now. Your dealers can not even order one. The 8 is not going away anytime soon.

So what does that mean? He said it is being reworked, I pressed for more details and could get nothing out of him.

So now lets see where everyone's speculation goes now? Does that mean we will see an RX-9 model in 2012 or just another body change? A motor change?

If I hear anymore I will post what I know.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps they cut the production to nothing for their lowest selling car during the economic issues of the past year or two?

If I was Mazda, dealing with a 30% drop in sales, looking for cost cutting measures, halting production of the 8 makes sense.

ccd

adviceinst:

Any word would be great at this point. Every indication is that 2010 is the last model year for the RX-8 and that there will probably be a gap of a year or two before any successor appears. I doubt Mazda has even made a final decision on the form the successor will take beyond being a 2-seater (and maybe not even that). I doubt anyone outside of Mazda knows where 16x development stands. There is no way they can discontinue the RX-8 and come back with the S2 engine unless Mazda adds FI.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

agreed ---and why mazda doesnt want to do a low boost supercharger on this engine is beyond me. It just makes so much sense with an engine that is so volumetric efficent but not thermoynamic. Temps are controlable.
Gas milage---what is all the fuss? Many many cars suv's etc get 15-16 mpg in the city.
heck i have a +300 hp fi set up in the o4 model and a 09 trans--on the interstate i am now getting (with that true od 6th gear) 24-25 mpg and 15-17 in town depending on how I drive.
Hell I get 10 mpg on the road course!!!! My redline is 7.5K however.
I wish they would not let this chassis/car die.
OD

Spin9k

I'd say Mazda future development work has gone into hibernation due to lack of money. Small car makers are likely stung unduely by the recent financial crisis being as they don't have the reserves to fall back on. Mazda has been mute about most everything recently. I use as a "finger in the air' gauge what I read in the press, autoblog, mags, forums, etc., and it's almost as if Mazda doesn't exist... no press to speak of, no concept leaks, no futuristic drawings even...combined with very little advertising means as the world thaws from the $ crisis, Mazda will be late and likely not have much great to offer....beside the fact that marketing from others makers now will have drawn a good part of their future potential audience's eyes elsewhere. IOW "Mazda who?"

All in all a fairly dismall outlook for them if you ask me... and Mazda has been a serious funk before so they should know "what not to do"... or maybe not.