shiftright

Nice as the RX8 is, I must say that the Motor Trend article would have been more legitimate were it comparing the RX8 with cars which are more like it in performace and concept, like the Infiniti G35 and the Lexus IS300. The Z is a 2 seat, 2 door hatchback and the S2000 is an all out sports car with barely enough room for two people.

According to the article, the Rx8 won not because it outperformed the other two car in ANY measure of performance but because it was "competetive" and was a good "compromise". It was quieter, had more room and was less expensive. Clearly the S2000 engineers had none of those things as their priorities when they were building the surgical scalpel that we call the S2k. Can you tell that I own the S?

But I love sports cars in general and have great admiration for Mazda and its cars. I would love the RX8 to succeed and then I would love for Mazda to produce the next generation RX7 so that I could buy that road rocket as well. I love my Miata.....it tells me what Mazda is all about.

And congrats to all you RX8 owners, you have a handsome car with good performance and practicality to boot.

Dissolved

Didnt the S2k and Z run high 13s and RX8 run mid 14s?

zthang

I think were all in agreement here that all the cars in the comparison are great cars...i wouldn't be on this forum if the rx8 wasn't a great car. no need to try and name an all out winner when there obviously is none.

racerdave

Yeah, it's like each car is a steak... some people prefer a different cut and level to which it's cooked.

Are any of them wrong? No.

All up to the individual. Enjoy the steak the way "you" like it and move on... and be happy that the others at your table got one they liked too.

pmacwill

*group hug*

rx-7~rx-8

I love rotaries and always did since i was 11... im 16 now.... but i always shows repect for Z .. supra .. Skyline.. all those cars are fantasic... everycar is good for something... something specific... thats what its made...

350Z or RX-8 both are bad *** rollers... to roll out in...

scorp76

Yeah, and the Z is completely overdone/overcooked.

ToRX-8orToZ

Cmon.... we all know which is the "best sports car" among the three cars; it aint the 8, and it aint the Z.

I love Mazda because of this principle: They believe in lightweight, great handling, uncompromising cars.

The 8 is a compromise car. If I needed to calculate back steats into my buying decision I'd buy one... it becomes the obvious (hell, the ONLY) choice.

If you read through the article, it's clear that the 8 wins between the three cars because of its practical nature. There are people who want a car that puts perforamance and the driving experience above anything else... these people usualy look for things called "sports cars", because, well, sports cars are just that... cars that don't compromise the experience for practical limits. I think it's a little foolish for the 8 to win in this comparo... because it clearly doesnt do anything as well as the S (from a performance aspect) save braking... which is close.

The S sticks better.

The S accelarates quicker.

The S is lighter.

The S has tighter steering.

The S is better balanced and transitions better. ( A true 50/50 weight distrubution Vs. a 48/52).

IMO The article shouldnt have taken practicality into consideration when juding sports cars.

The S should have won, and the Z should have come in last. =D

zerobanger

I can respect your OPINION that the S2000 should have won, but I have a few issues with that.

first, the rx-8's steering is far better than the s2000. Actually I should not say far better, but its definately more precise and has a better feel. I have driven both, I know.

The S2000 is not better balanced than the rx-8. I dont know the weight distribution, but the rx-8 is 50/50 weight and everything about the car was designed for balance in mind. Rx-8 is definately better balanced (not the the s2000 isn't amazing in that catagory).

Transitions better? the car feels like a miata or a civic until 6000 RPM then it goes nuts. Thats alot of fun, I agree..but its not "better".

As far as the S "sticking" better, I have seen .88 to .92 on various tests for skid pad on both cars. In this test the s2000 had better grip, so if thats your point, ok.

The Rx-8 also has better brakes. the best tested was 60-0 in 111 feet, the s2000 cant offer that.

the S2000 is a great choice, I dont have an issue with anything thinking the S should have won, but I still prefer the 8.

ToRX-8orToZ

What I mean by better is how tight the steering is. The steering ratio on the S is much tighter then on the 8; it might not be "better feeling" to some people (that is highly subjective) but it most deffinetly is better for performance purposes.... it simply is tighter... and that is a fact.

Actually, no... it is not 50/50 balanced; it's ALMOST 50/50 balanced... but it is 48/52; there was a whole schpeel on how Mazda wanted to design it this way so that the driver would offset the weight (I'm not going to go into what I think of that, kind of like how Nissan WANTED to design the Z so it was 46/54 so that the weight would shift forward and be 50/50 through a turn). The S2000 is a true 50/50.

You don't atuoX do you? I don't mean hit vtec by transition better. It's clear you've never driven an S2000 either; I'm starting to wonder if you actually own an 8.

They brake very similarly. Kutos to Mazda.

The S is a better sports/performance car period. The 8 is a better compromise car period... which is apparently what MT was looking for.

Now if Mazda released a 2600lb two door with a rotary.... we can all dream I guess.

zerobanger

who the hell are you to tell me I never drove an S2000? And who the hell are you to tell me I dont have an rx-8? I have an rx-8 and an rx-7. I dont need lectured by you. You are entitled to your opinion, but you cross the line when you accuse me of lying.

I dont agree with your analysis, btw.

zerobanger

First off here is my link where I posted my review of the s2000 on 11/25/2002

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=s2000

here is the original post
my friend and me drove each others Rx7 and S2000
I have wanted to drive a s2000 for what seems like forever. My friend Kevin and me decided to trade cars and have some fun on the street....Anyway after driving the two cars I can put things in perspective. Looks are subjective and in my opinion both cars are stunning. The S2000 had more of a refind modern feel while driving, while my car had more of a brutal raw feel to it. I was really impressed with the power the S2000 has, but I think the fun with the s2000 is the revving of the engine and how happy the car seems to want to climb to 9000 rpm. I shift at 8100 in mine, although my car loves to rev, it seems the S2000 climbs revs even faster than My car does. It was funny, I forget how loud my car is with my MP. Sitting in the car I never notice it. When I was in his S2000 and he flew by me in my RX7 I can hear the exhaust on the RX7 and its LOUD. LOL.

My car is not stock and I forgot what a stock rx7 feels like so I cant compare power. I can tell you that the S2000 has a much softer ride, bumps are not as brutal. The shifting is perfect and the steering is exact. The Rx7's shifter is ok. My chasis has 152,000 miles, I have alot of play in my steering and I have worn bushings. His car had better steering response as a result of that.

He was really, really, really, really impressed with the torque of my car. He was really having alot of fun driving it.

So in the end my opinion is the S2000 is far more civilized and refined than the RX7. In the RX7 you can feel the engine and the road more and in the S2000 you feel the car more. You can have the top down in the s2000 and not mess your hair up, LOL.

I would Love to have an S2000.

are you still calling me a liar? you still dont think I own an rx-8?

according to hondacars.com

http://www.hondacars.com/models/spec...odelName=S2000

the weight distribution is 49/51

according to mazdausa

Don't be fooled by its power: the RENESIS engine is uncommonly compact. (In fact, it's about the same height as the transmission). This facilitates an advanced front-midship layout, which provides an ideal mounting position for the entire powertrain - low and behind the front axle. That positioning is a key factor in the Mazda RX-8's approximate 50-50 weight distribution, which helps to provide exceptional stability and handling.

Sin

My garage 2...(from 1st post)

6speed8

I actually just read the article, and think it is a waste of ink. There is pretty much the same heated discussion at the S2ki board as well. I don't think it is a fair comparo, and certainly proves nothing.

I think we are VICTIMS of clever manipulation by Motor Trend's attempt to sell more magazines. Surely they KNEW a comparo like this would set off a ruckus, and people (I am guilty) would go out and actually buy their rag.

If you want pure muscle sport car performance - get the Z
If you want pure balanced sport car performance - get theS2K
If you want balanced performance with two extra seats get the 8

ToRX-8orToZ

The key word is approximate. The rx-8 is 48/52, the 2000-2003 S2000 is 50/50*.

Anybody can write testimony about a car on a message board; it doesnt mean that they are telling the truth, or know what they're talking about. I've based my position on your experiences by your comments, specificly:

Which is just an uneducated sort of position. If you compare the dynos for an 8 and an S, you'd see that both cars have a similar power delivery, until 6K, where the F20C walks completely away from the renesis.

The only thing I currently like about the renesis is its potential; in my mind it clearly has more room to grow then the F20C (or the F22C for that matter). Time will tell.

*I'll be upfront and say I don't know much about the '04 models save the fact that the F20C has been replaced with the F22C and it weighs more.

zerobanger

the honda web site said 49/51 who cares.

Oh ok, I must have lied. I guess I gave a flattering review of the S2000 on the rx-7 board for the fun of it.

oh ok, i'm so glad. You are entitled to your opinion, but you cant respect someone elses without calling them a liar. You are a punk.

ToRX-8orToZ

The dyno comments are facts, not opinions. You come out and comment about the S being equal to a civic or a miata and you're calling me the punk? LOL

zerobanger

R & T did a test shifing at 6000 RPM in the s2000 and 0-60 was 11 seconds. UNDER 6000 RPM yes, it accelates similar to a miata or civic. its a fact.

I never said the s2000 doesn't have a better power to weight, but as you probably know the rx8 cant be dynoed without going into limp mode. those 170 RWHP figures you have seen are not accurate.

lets put it this way, car +driver=3200 lbs. trap speed=95. No way in hell it only has 170 rwhp.

dcroteau

I'm not so sure this is true. My co-worker has an s2k with a Vortech Supercharger, and it lays down 298 - 302 hp at the rear wheels. A well tuned F20C with stock internals can bump that up to almost 350hp. I doubt the Renesis will approach 350 rwhp any time soon, but as you stay, only time will tell.

ToRX-8orToZ

I'll call BS on that; how about substantiating it?

zerobanger

you can call BS on it, i'm not about to scour the net for some test that I am sure was done.

You called BS on the fact that I own an Rx-8, you called BS on the fact that I drove a S2000. So it doesn't suprise me.

How bout I get you a nice tall glass of STFU?

ToRX-8orToZ

I'm personaly thinking of going with a comptech supercharger. I've heard the comptechs are more reliable and if you get it installed at a dealership it won't void the factory warranty.

scorp76

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...20/index1.html

Genom

Well, considering a well tuned RX-7 can hit 350 without THAT much work (certainly much less work than adding a supercharger since it's already turbo'ed, but I digress), once boosted work gets done on the 8's they will be well within the area. Of course, boosting the 8 is looking to be more of a challenge, but it's certainly do-able.

zerobanger

Man that was cool. thanks!!!