I don't consider either EVO or STi sports cars. But they are great performance sedans, and are very capabe on road courses. For out of the box bang-for-your buck performance, it's hard to go wrong with either.

 

Subaru doesn't make FWD drive cars, so I don't see how the STi can be based on a FWD econobox.

 

WHAT? subaru does not make anything thats not FWD or all wheel drive, I dont know any subaru thats rear wheel drive only, all of there base car models come only with FWD

 

I'm trying to offend anyone or show off my automotive johnson and what not. All I'm saying is that those cars I mentioned get it done. They are all cars to reckon with. And yes, when people compare cars, most common performance enthusiast are going to compare the 8 with those cars, EVO and STi econo-box included.

And to tell you the truth, I've driven an EVO at limit. ANYONE would be a fool to under estimate it. And with the STi as a matched rival, the same goes for it. NO MATTER THE DRIVE LAYOUT!!! In other words: not in the same ball park should be changed to, "out of our league".

As far as the S2000 being based off a Del Sol or CRX has me a bit left without words. I've driven both an S2K and a Del Sol (my friend has 2 CRXs) and there is no resemblence, hints, Kelly Clarkson song, or comparison.

 

Exactly. The EVO is also it's own beast. But if AWD is considered FWD econo box, then someone want to up against an Audi RS4? It's a FWD with 4 doors.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sports cars ARE performance cars. The 8 is a sports car which means it's a performance car and for the price range that it is in, the average enthusiast consumer is going to expect specific numbers. Mazda got all the handling numbers and missed out on "how fast" numbers. If the 8 came out doing the 1/4 in 14 flat by the average car reviewer (Road and Track, Motortrend, Car and Driver, etc.), I believe there wouldn't be so much hype about gas mileage and maintenance. Some, but not as much as there is in reality. To be honest most of the maintenance issues just come from people not really getting the idea that they bought a car with a DIFFERENT KIND OF ENGINE. THAT MEANS A DIFFERENT STRATEGY OF MAINTENANCE IS NEEDED, NOT MORE MAINTENANCE. It's an RX-8 for crying out loud, not a twin-turbo FD.

 

Have you ever seen a new(ish) 99-02 FD? I think part of the problem is that any FD you see nowadays in the US is going to show obvious signs of age, like yellowing plastics, worn-out interior, fading paint or obvious repaint, etc. I think if you put an FD made in 2002 next to a Z made in the same year, the FD would look newer.

Not to say that the FD will never look dated, but I still think a few more generations of trendy designs will come and go before then. The 350z/Audi TT copy look is getting old fast, and I think in a few years, this "flow" look will too.

 

Actually they used to.
http://www.cars101.com/

 

The Evo X is its own beast, right now, the Evo is still based on the Lancer, a FWD econobox.

I believe the RS4 is AWD.

 

Couldn't agree more. The FD is a timeless design. Even an early 90's FD in good condition is a sight to behold.

 

I know, it was just a joke.

 

dammit

 

There will be No RX-7

RX-8 updates...interesting....but not surprising.

 

ASH8, you sure you want to go though all this again...

 

What!, that the FE RX-8 is the new RX-7 anyway in disguise!

 

8rotor8: ASH8 is right, where did you guys have it out. Might be worth skimming and adding my own 2 cents.

 

hmm, well we will just have to agree to disagree on that... I really noticed it this last weekend on the Saturday drive of the NorCal7's.

The rear end of the FD just looks dated and out of place and even more so when compared to the FE. Just park the FD next to a 350z or FE, or E93 or even a Z4. Starting to look a little dated (but then the design is almost 17 years old).

But I agree about the FD against the 300ZX... while the last 300ZX didn't follow Nissan's normal design school of out dated look after 4 years, but is still looks very dated when compared to the FD.

 

Okay... lets make it simple... If you own a '8... what other cars did you consider? (and if you don't own a RX-8 don't bother replying as you probably don't get it anyway).

Did you consider and drive a EVO or STi?

My point is that the EVO and STi and even the Mazdaspeed3, while they are all great performance cars, they are not in the same ballpark as the '8 or the Z4 or the S2000 or even the BMW 3 series. The person that buys a Z4 or a RX-8, is not the same kind of person that buys a STi and probably didn't even consider the 3 or a Sti or a EVO.

That is why I say they are not in the same ballpark. They are just two different kinds of cars... tweaked FWD sedans or Sports cars. They don't have the same vehicle dynamics, or the same precision or even the same control.

 

When i was shopping for a new sporty car i looked at the s2000 the 350z the evo, the wrx and even the srt4...i chose the rx8 for the design, handling and the a rotary motor. Sports car are vets, vipers, m3 and m5...there is a difference between sporty and sports. I have driven all the car mentioned above and i still rather the rx8 i wish it had more hp/torque but it is what it is.. Point is at 30k price range you find sporty cars and mazda needed to make the rx8 a little more sporty.

 

I have to agree with him on this.

Subaru has never produced a FWD, and unlike most other AWD vehicles out there (which are converted from FWD platforms) the Subaru driveline layout has much more resemblance to a RWD system, with the engine rotating longitudinally, not transversely.

The STi can put 60% of its power to the rear, which may not sound like much, but its enough to power oversteer, something NO FWD car has ever done.

 

Nicely said!! The 3rd gen is timeless.IMO.

 

And how many of those "timeless design" FD's did they sell again?

 

Less than 50,000 over 10 years of production

 

Actually, Subaru has had many FWD models; even the 1st generation Impreza was available with either AWD or FWD. From 1997 onwards, Subaru discontinued FWD in N.America but they still sold FWD versions in some other markets. My understanding is that the 2nd generation Impreza was not available with FWD anywhere, but I could be mistaken.

That wasn't directed at me, but I drove the STI. Yeah, it understeers more than the RX8, is significantly heavier (especially in the front), has a higher COG and yaw moment (some dismiss that as Mazda marketing crap, but the responsiveness is different), its shifter is mediocre, and its steering back then wasn't all that great (that's been fixed since). But the chassis and engine are excellent, the AWD DCCD setup is a lot of fun, its handling and braking (while not quite on par with the RX8) blew away my old WRX, and its capabilities on loose surfaces far surpass the RX8's.

If I'd been able to get the STI for $24k (what I paid for my RX8), I woulda likely bought one instead. IMO, what it lacks in pure sports car dynamics, it makes up for in other areas. I guess that's where you and I differ.

On a side note, before getting the RX8, I also tried to test drive an EVO. They told me over the phone that I could, but changed their mind when I got there (and they were rude and insulting about it): https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...425#post398425

 

I know, I was just making a joke. We both agree with eachother.

 

Just to add to the rumors; I just heard there won't be an 08 RX8, rather they may produce an 07.5 model that has many revisions including mechanical and styling.
This would then be the last one before the new rotary car/s.