Renesis_8

Haha thats so cool, such a cool way to tell us whats under !!
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MEDICAL MARIJUANA WHOLESALERS

Renesis_8

Hey RG, you should bring the Courage C65 thread from the lounge outta there=D
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Modesto Central Valley Co Op

rotarygod

They've been having cooling issues. Sadly enough they are obvious when you look at the car but I honestly don't think they know how to handle it judging from what steps they've taken so far. I'm on my way out of the house right now but later on I'll divulge some of the issues they've had, what they've done to combat them, and what I feel should be done differently to take care of it. What do I know though? I'm no race engineer.

Renesis_8

Off topic: B-K motorsports is finally updating their site after a year!, its under construction now.
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Live sex

rotary crazy

http://www.imsaracing.net/2003/lt/ltc.html

remember to check todays prectice times at 1:25

lesper4

iTrader: (3)

saw the race today the last 15 in, what kind of race is this with 4 different classes and 4 cars per class. Are these races on very often, did the season just start. I saw that the porches team penske came in 1 and 2 but i guess that was gt2 class?

rotarygod

In the American LeMans series, you have 4 classes of cars running all at the same time. How you do within your own class is what matters. There is LMP1, LMP2, GT1, and GT2. Mazda competes in LMP2. Some classes have more cars than others. You'll have to go check out the ALMS website to see which cars are in what classes.

Mazda got 4th in their class today out of 5 cars. Sadly this just means no faster cars broke.

Senna

Anyone know why the Mazda P2 car has an extra 200 LBS of weight added to it? Doesn't make any sense to me considering the car already has a HP handicap.

I heard the commentators mention this as well as the plans for some changes to the Mazda coming this season.

rotarygod

They add weight to cars that did good in the previous race. The better you did, the more weight gets added for the next race. This is supposed to keep the same car from winning over and over again but hasn't seemed to do much. Mazda got 2nd in Houston a week ago but not because they were fast. Both Porsches broke and the next person ahead of them did to but still managed to hold out for the win. They were losing 20 seconds per lap at the end to the Mazda but the race ended before Mazda could gain the lead. They were down on this car by 7-8 laps at one point. Mazda would have ended up 4th if no one would have broken.

The Courage is already overweight. They are using an older C60 back half with the C65 chassis. They are also underpowered. Rumor has it that we'll see a Lola chassis before the end of the year. Only time will tell.

Senna

Thanks for the info. Hopefully the Lola will bring about some major weight savings that can compensate for the lack of power.

Also, there are hints of them adding a 4th rotor per the Rotarynews.com article. 4th rotor and new chasis would be nice to see when they come around to Laguna.

Renesis_8

Please dont tell me ALMS added 200 pounds to the already overweight and underpowered Mazda P2 car!! They got a good finish because other cars broke down, they can probably see from statistics that this car is SLOW!!
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Vaporizer volcano

Senna

Well, it looks like IMSA is supporting Mazda's efforts to develop their program and be more competitive. Hopefully, we'll see the new chasis and possibly a 4 rotor down the road. It is pretty absurd though how far behind the pace we are to the Intersport Lola and now the Porsches. If I remember correctly I think even the GT1 class winner beat the P2 Mazda in Houston.

rotarygod

They definitely aren't anywhere near the pace of other cars. Don't assume that GT class cars are necessarily slower. The Corvettes have almost 200 hp on the Mazda and more power than the Porsche LMP2 cars. I know they shouldn't handle as well and weigh a little bit more but by no means are they slow. They are faster on the straights. Porsche's LMP2 cars are so fast they are beating the higher horsepower LMP1 cars. That is assuming they actually finish a race which it appears they finally have.

Mazda has some issues to work out as far as cooling goes but they don't seem to see the issue or have seemed to learn anything from past Mazda rotary race cars. They are taking a different approach to cooling than past cars but it was the past cars that had it figured out. They are holding power back a bit because they are running too hot. They'll figure this out again one day I guess and hopefuly at the same time they shed some weight. I hope they do both. I want to see a rotary do well again.

Red Devil

Just how much power is the Mazda down to the Porsches?

rotarygod

Somewhere between 50-75 and they are about 150 lbs heavier.

BlueEyes

I had thought Mazda didn't run Mid Ohio. I was walking around the paddocks looking for their truck, but didn't see it. The race results say different though. Weird. I didn't catch the race, but those RS spyders seem to have dominated.

BlueRenesis82

well, with the weight thing hopefully the new chassis they are looking at will help out a good amount with that.

Senna

This helps explain things. I would imagine adding another rotor would just create that much more heat. Now as for my engine bay temps....ah let me do a search first.

rotary crazy

the new chassis may solved the two problems, firts the weithg and then the power, if the team chosse a good chasis with better cooling they can go for a more acresive tune, and if they have a bit more space they can use the varible leght intake that will give more avarage power and maybe a 4 rotor.

Any body knows if the speedsource GT car is going to be at lime rock?

BlueRenesis82

I dont think a variable intake is within the rules of the series, nobody else is running it, so I would doubt that Mazda would get an excemption

rotarygod

The biggest issue isn't so much the chassis to having the cooling ability bu rather their approach to engine cooling that needs work. It is true that the Courage chassis needs better cooling ability but what BK is neglecting is oil cooling. They now have 2 radiators but only 1 half sized oil cooler and that is placed behind one of the radiators where it gets fed hot air. This setup would work fine on a piston engined car. Some high powered piston engined cars don't even run oil coolers. Some run heat exchangers which use the coolant to "cool" the oil. This is the approach that BK is taking to cooling a rotary. I don't care what chassis they use next, if they keep the same logic, they aren't going to cool the engine down.

They need to remove the second radiator and install an oil cooler as large as the primary radiator. Then they need to make sure it gets fed it's own air. They'll probably find out that even though they have less "coolant", their engine temps will go down. They need to learn this before they get a new car or they'll never figure it out in a new one. It's even more scary to think that they could potentially add a 4 rotor into the mix when they can't cool down a 3 properly. They need to start thinking differently. They'd save money if they did.

rotary crazy

some one on this forum said it was in the rules but I have not read the rules myself

rotarygod

What's in the rules? Cooling? There is no mention of cooling anywhere in the rules. It is free within the confines of the bodywork.

BTW, Here they are:
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2006LMP12.pdf

rotarygod

I went back and looked at some engine bay pictures from last year. Interestingly enough it appears that they did used to have a larger oil coler on the left side of the car. Unfortunately I can't see what's on the right side of the car. This was early in the season when they had the overhead intake that they have again now. The only picture I can see of the right side of the engine bay was with the side intake that used the snorkel. I can't see any type of cooling used over there. It's not saying there wasn't any. I just can't see any way that it would have fit or vented. This is a little bit perplexing. What did they do then? Is what I'm seeing actually a radiator on the left side instead of an oil cooler? What did they use for oil and water cooling with the snorkel intake in the way? I wish I had pictures of both sides of the car throughout all of the progression rather than just one side of each.

Keep in mind they may have in fact already tried the setup that I feel should be used. I am speculating a possible fix based on what I saw on the car here in Houston. It doesn't make sense to me. I just don't see the logic of using poor oil cooling on an engine that needs more oil cooling than any other engine. Maybe they can't get any setup to work properly in that chassis which we do know is part of the problem.

We know that they had cooling issues when they had the side intake setup. That's logical based on the amount of space available and from what I can see. I'm not sure how they could get enough oil and water cooling with that setup. I just wish I knew what they had previous to that. Was it as I suggest it should be done or was it not?

rotary crazy

I was answering the question about the variable intake, i thoug they were not allow but I think some one in this forum told me they where allow

I was told that they just cant get enough air to cool down the engine in this chassis, but like you RG i just seen the pictures on the internet and dont know what they have done in the past, I think whatever Carlos dit to the cooling sistem help because 2 races without problems