The problem with using the FC metered oil technology is there were totally different emissions standards during that time period. While the overall mileage of the motor might have been better, the environmental regulations on newer cars are very strict.

Reduction in oil injection for the S1 was no doubt influenced by this. Otherwise Mazda would have opted for more oil injection in a CYA fashion for warranty considerations.

It's not that they "messed it up" but that the injection amounts for the driving style of the vehicle didn't pan out. Any kind of reliability tests like the 24 hour endurance test wouldn't have yielded these problems since MOP output would have been 100% in most of the operational ranges.

The other side of this was the automatic engines that were babied. We've seen example of carbon caked engines that were never ran hard because of a combo of lower operational RPM's with the automatic transmission and owners refusing to beat on their cars.

So let's give the Mazda engineers some credit. The problem was more on the human side of things than the engineering. That said, it wasn't until Mazda started cranking up the MOP injection in the 2006+ PCM revisions did the engine failure amounts plummet.

The S2 center MOP injector seems to have done the trick but the overall S2 mileage is still rather low. I don't know how many S2 owners have 40,000+ miles on their RX8's but I would gather that the number is too low to make any calls.

All of this is why I've given some credit to rumors of Mazda experimenting with surfaces that would require zero lubrication of the combustion chamber to operate. This combined with the higher compression technology that SKYACTIV provides and the I-stop technology might provide some promise.

Although it's pure speculation, I imagine Mazda will take its time with further rotary engine development instead of shoving something out the door. While the MSP was a good amount of new technology, it was still largely based off of an existing blueprint. Mazda learned that it's more expensive to go back and fix a production problem than it is to invest the R&D money up front to weed out issues.

 

I know 5 people off the top of my head that would put a deposit down tonight on a rotary powered mx5 chassis car
With a power to weight ratio the car would have--instant hit in America.
Gas mileage would be better--probably in the neighborhood of 27-28 mpg on the road and a 0-60 time right at 5secs? Remember too the mx5 chassis etc has lower drivetrain lost also

The s2 engine looks like it has been doing ok? Mazda changed a LOT of stuff on it--not just the omp/system. They were also starting to get the cooling system right for instance.
The renasis engine is tougher than some people may think. I know a lot of those engine replacements where done and they really didnt need to be done. The car was running ok--just down on power a little. If the truth be known.
In the Ga club--these cars have been beat the **** out of--and they keep coming back for more. We have over 100K accumulative TRACK miles on the members cars and not a single one has ever blown a seal. NOT A SINGLE ONE. Mine doesnt count because i threw a supercharger on it. A couple have had coolant seals go but that was from running it too hot and the owners keep going.
The Miata with an S2 engine would be a GREAT package. It would become a legend and the Zoom-Zoom would be back. Right now Mazda is pretty lame.
OD

 

Add me to that list.


I've even sent an email to Mazda twice asking if they could make it. Once even asking if they could specially produce one


(No luck yet)

 

Guess I should start saving now. I only just got my '04 paid off last year. It was all the car I could afford and I plan on keeping it as long as possibile.

 

Ok I didn't read that part correctly but what about just dropping the current incarnation of the 16x in to the 8? No redesign of the chasis/body frame required and production equipment already exists and is in place.

The part about the reduction in power to weight I was talking about was assuming the ND had a SA chasis and SA I4. that may have been confusing. But then if we're talking about a new model then this point is no longer relevant.

It would be an awesome combination, I just don't see how it works out for mazda, other than being able to say they're keeping the rotary alive. A car can't survive on just a hand full of sales.

EDIT: Actually I lied, I can think of a way it would work out for mazda. If they cam out with a new rx car, used a coupe version of the miata, put the renesis in it now. Then in 4-5 years when they do a refresh, come out with a kodo look and the 16x engine. That would be awesome.

 

That's basically what I'm advocating





The 16X was "running" but the last official word of it was that it didn't meet their standards yet, so I'd say that they are still working on the performance aspect (if they are even working on the "16X" at all, I think they shelved it and have moved on to an even better rotary than the 16X, developed from SkyActive tech), and thus don't really have any of the long term testing and reliability studies done. The 16X isn't anywhere close to being put into a production car, if that is still the iteration they are working on.

 

For some reason when I read your first post I quoted, I had it in my head that you wanted a rotory powered miata that would die when the NC died. Then a gap until the next rx car. yeah I know, stupid me.

Still won't happen though. mazda doesn't love us THAT much.

 

I know the rules have changed (it's been 20 something years since) but my point is that ... how could they come up with this brilliant idea of " lets just point 2 nozzle at the freaking corner and hope the oil would weee back to the center of the housing ... "


Carbon has been a problem with rotary since the very beginning. Side port exhaust is something new so I let them go on this one. most auto owners are "so afraid of revving their engine cuz their friend's neighbor's friend's cousin's father's co-worker told him that it's bad to rev engines, at least it's bad for his 1950 hot rod."

(they actually did side exhaust port test in 1980s, but technology back then did not allow them to run such config)

the max setting was like 60 right ? (correct me if wrong)

and they just crank it up from something like 1 to 3 at idle ? (again, correct me if wrong)

yea better than nothing, but it's just stupid that they point those 2 nozzle at the corner.

Well, heard knight sports people said that Mazda spent almost the same amount of money on the S2 as S1. That's a lot of R&D funds if you ask me, so hopefully it would work.

we will not get i-stop tech in US, MNAO decided that most of us are too dumb to understand something like that (which is true, the dumb part, most ppl can't drive for ****, seriously, at least in New York City, lol)

hope the 0 lubrication part would work, cuz it will get rid of OMP, car will be less complicated and probably cheaper to make.

totally based off an existing design, hell cuz they cut the R&D funding (big Thank you Ford), some engineers inside were pissed and just took the existing 13B and mod it on their own.

As soon as Ford is gone (lower their shares in the company) they start their SkyActiv development, so Ford is not getting any of that AND Mazda can pretty much do whatever they want now.


ahh, speaking of the OMP nozzle, I was rebuilding/cleaning my engine and I found out that all 4 nozzles on my FC are actually clogged. I had to spray brake cleaner thru it for a good few seconds to "unclog" it, now it's clean and flows/drips. so now I'm thinking this might have something to do with engine failures. clogged up = no/reduced oil dripping = no good in the long run.

 

send an express mail (the real kind of mail, not e-mail) with a blank check.

say that if Mazda Japan can make one, write the amount down and deposit it.

I'm sure you will get a reply, pretty fast

(notice : make sure you have enough dough in ur checking account b4 trying something like that, or you gonna get a check-return-fee/check bounced )

 

major part of skyactiv is from much more precise computer system. it can detect pretty much any knock instantly and adjust the fuel/air on the fly.

plus the specially designed 4-2-1 header and other stuff.

not sure if those would work in Rotary Engine. DI and Laser Spark plugs ?

 

I know the idea has been thrown around but anyone up for kidnapping a few nasa eggheads?

 

If I-stop isn't coming to the US it certainly isn't because the public is too "dumb" to understand the technology or use it correctly. Last I saw, the issue was a failure in the process of determining fuel mileage. The process yields much lower fuel mileage gains than what they see in Japan. Why up-charge people for a feature they won't see any value in?

 

current EPA testing does not count any of these "stop @ red light" feature.

there is value in this tech, just that people will wonder "is this thing really worth 800 bux?", when you try to explain how does it work they will have even more question and "afraid" of trying new things, just like how they treat rotary engine.

maybe they can Add this into the GT package and just explain this feature briefly? *sigh*, hope MNAO will import this "feature" with SkyActiv ASAP.

 

Exactly. You and I might see value but only because we know the details behind the technology. Your average consumer might hear the explanation and then ask why the fuel mileage between the i-stop and regular vehicles are so similar but yet they are paying a premium for it.

Adoption of the rotary engine is a similar situation but also very different. The rotary engine offers a particular driving experience but comes at the cost of reduced fuel mileage, increased maintenance and the need for owners to be much more aware of their vehicle. Selling people on an experience is pretty tough when it comes to buying a car. The only vehicles you can get away with that kind of sales pitch are supercars and hypercars.

Everyone else purchases cars based on fact sheets. Horsepower, fuel mileage, leg room, technical gadgets etc.

Mazda has their work cut out for them. They are going to have to produce a rotary car that will attract a whole new generation of owners. Most people on this forum are not in positions to jump ship with their RX8 and buy a brand new vehicle so banking on previous rotary owners won't work. With the range of available vehicles Mazda will have to produce something truly original that will capture the attention of everyone.

 

I was going to say that. Zirconia is a beautiful ceramic. The main problem is with imperfections and machining. Plasma coating may solve some of the imperfection issues, but to polish the surface smooth enough to not need lubrication, you would need to use diamonds.

Not imposable, but potentially expensive.

 

Not for me. I don't fit in them. The RX-8 size is perfect for me, and the versatility is great for all the stuff I tote around on weekend trips. I hope whatever they eventually replace it with has at least as much imagination and versatility. After the RX-8, a simple roadster just doesn't do it for me...

 

I would imagine most of Mazda's production machining tooling already uses diamond tips anyway....

 

I agree!!!

 

reskinned coupe MX-5 chassis setup with upgraded suspension and brakes, S2 Renesis could be called... drumrolllll... RX-5! I'd buy it!

You know what I'd like too? A 12A sized, 180-200hp or so all aluminum direct injected (16X tech) version of the Renesis for the Next Gen lighter weight Miata chassis, 30+ mpg possibility!

 

im fairly sure they will be able to get to 30 mpg, or really close to it, i know we dont give a crap about it cuz we just rev it regradless, but new buyers might care.

 

I will just be glad when Mazda shuts up all the "expert" nay sayers with another rotary sports car. A Miata with a Turbocharged Series II Renny sounds like a great performance buy but I would still never drive a Miata on a regular basis.

 

Nothing a re-badge/re-skin wouldn't fix. Mazda would obviously have to maintain the identities of the RX family and the MX family intact. If they went with the ND hardtop with S2 RX-8 skin with shinari design ques, that would solve the identity crisis in the public eye. Mazda needs to learn from other manufacturers and repackage elements of the different platforms, and target different audiences. If this was a limited release, and got some headlines in the car mags and websites, this thing would sellout in no time. People would forget the renny is an 'oil guzzler' real fast.

 

It's too bad it took Mazda until the 2009 model year to get the engine right. A lot of rotary reliability bad press could have been avoided. The rotary already had a reputation to most as being quirky and unreliable from the RX-7's, having it be somewhat unreliable in the 2003-2008 models really was a killer reputation wise.

 

I figure it's a noob question but I haven't too active lately on the forum.... What's I-stop? Point me in a direction please or just tell me to google it.

 

Bunique, The car shuts off when you come to a stop and starts back up when you go.