Baller

The Mustang is still a pile of crap American car. (that looks good)

Dr. BOB

Lets see. Ford owns Mazda- They win either way. They get your pennies.

Straight8

I've always liked Mustangs. Have owned 2 - a 69 and an 85 gt.

Problem with Mustangs is that they are a dime a dozen....every where I turn my head theres a Stang....

Slick8

Mustang drivers are a different breed, as are RX-8 drivers. If you're even considering a Mustang, don't bother with the RX-8. The qualities of the 8 are the exact opposite of the Mustang.

RXE16T

Ford doesn't actually own Mazda, it owns approximately 35% which makes them the major shareholder.

Guess they'll only get 35% of my money then. LOL :D

BTW, I love the look of the new Mustang, but being in Australia, it's very unlikely I'm ever going to be able to sit, touch and drive one.

If the quality is as crap as the last one, which they sold (tried to sell) in Australia, give me an 8 any day.

The 8's not up to Euro standards of class and refinement, but it certainly holds its own quite well.

RX8_Buckeye

shorty911: I really hope you ask this same question on a Mustang forum, because 90% of what you'll hear on a Japanese car forum is unfounded domestic car-bashing. Of course, people here will tell you that whatever you read on the Mustang forum must be garbage, because Mustang owners are morons, etc.

The Mustang forum members will probably tell you that the rotary engine has proven to be unreliable and you'd be much better off with a 4.6L V8. However, people here will be quick to point out that the unreliability of the rotary is a myth, and it can be traced to the improper tuning of the twin-turbo rotaries or whatever.

The point I'm trying to make is that there will be mud-slinging from both sides, so you really need to make a judgement for yourself while ignoring opinionated statements like:
"The Mustang is still a pile of crap American car."
"the car looks great... up untill you open the door. The quality didn't even compare to the rx-8."
"my analaysis is RX8 PWNS mustang anytime just cuz its got tons more class"

Go test drive both cars and form your own opinion. Also, there are a few other threads on this forum regarding the new Mustang. SOME of the posts in these threads actually offer insightful information, so I'd suggest you read these while ignoring the crap.

AbusiveWombat

Couldn't have said it any better RX8-Buckeye.

cas2themoe

"Yankees Fan", I havent even test driven that car yet and can tell you that there is no way that that car can do 0-60mph in 5.1sec with the automatic. Need to do a little more search on your cars buddy. Here are stats that the MANUAL did and that was 0-60 in 5.2 so theres no way that you thinking is right, espically because its coming from Motor Trends website!http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coup...ng/index5.html

Audioslave8

cas2themoe, FYI road and track did record 5.1 to 60 in automatic form. For the manual they predicted 4.8-4.9. Not sure why theirs are different then motor trend's but "yankees fan" is correct.

Shamblerock

IMHO, The only magazine you should trust for real figures and a thorough review is Car and Driver. Road and track is a long way back but places 2nd and Motor Trend is at the back of the bus. Their reviews are like reading the Mad magazine; no real substance/evidence, no real opinions and lots of pictures/fluff. At least Car and driver gets in to specifics accross the board and their reviews are more scientific with lots of opinions. Motor trend likes everybody and all cars they review. there is never a real loser in their shout outs.

cas2themoe

"Audio Slave" he stated that those time were from the Issue of Motor Trend. I proved him wrong by showing the link off of Motor Trends website and they had tested the GT Manual for 0-60mph in 5.2 sec. So I doubt the automatic times would be that and theres no way that the 210HP Mustang is going to break in the 5's doing 0-60 in my eyes. Its just too heavy!

cas2themoe

Oh and heres this off the website that your talking. "Expect 60 mph to whiz by in the low-five-second range in a manual V-8, somewhere around seven seconds for a V-6. All we need is Jan and Dean and the Great Society, and boomers will be babes again." Yes that's the Manual V-8 Model their talking about and not the base Mustang which will not break 5's in my eyes. Heres the page http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?...&page_number=3

RX8_Buckeye

cas2themoe: take a step back and carefully read what Yankeesfan and audioslave8 wrote. All they are saying is that Motor Trend got a 0-60 time of 5.1 seconds in a V8 automatic, and that their ESTIMATE for the V8 manual was 4.9 seconds. They had to estimate at the time because they did not have a V8 manual to test. I have a copy of this issue and I can paste a link to the article if you still refuse to believe it. Apparently, Motor Trend eventually did test a V8 manual and got 5.2 seconds, which is what you see posted on their site. Why did they test the automatic faster than the manual? I really don't know... remember, not every vehicle is identical and a lot depends on the surface conditions, ambient temperature, atmospheric pressure, etc.

So all of this arguing is about nothing. Nobody is claiming that the V6 can break into the 5's, so why are you even mentioning it? The fact remains that the V8 Mustang, in automatic or manual form, does 0-60 in the low 5-second range or faster, and will easily run mid 13s in the 1/4-mile. I don't see how anyone can criticize the performance you get considering this car starts at $25k.

SHOWOFF

One additional thing to consider is that these magazines are backed by major automotive manufacturers. SO in that case their opinions can be easily swayed in the right direction.

RX8_Buckeye

I'm sure some of that does go on to a certain extent, but usually if something sucks they'll come out and say it. For example, most of the articles I read about the outgoing Mustang, including the Cobra, had many negative things to say. They mentioned the cheap-looking interior, poor fit & finish, sub-par handling due to SRA and poor weight distribution among other things.

The new Mustang has received an unbelievable amount of positive press, and it's not just from the major car magazines. Every newspaper article I've read has had nothing but good things to say about the car. The typical small-city newspaper doesn't have much to gain by writing a biased piece on the new 'Stang.

SHOWOFF

There are a few good things about the Stang. It was a step in the right direction to update the car and bring it out of the dark ages. I will tell you this, when I am driving a Mustang (I have driven one as a demo for 2 weeks) I never get people rubbernecking to see the car, or asking 50 questions about it at the grovery store parking lot like I do with the RX-8.

But first hand both on the service end and the sales end, I can tell you that the Mustang is a true POS. I have driven one, I have sold them, I have also seen the BS things that they come into our shop for and they are CRAP. They are an ergonomic nighmare. The interior is cheap chincy plastic, and to try and break the monotony they add this cheap *** interior upgrade that is nothing but a bunch of pieces of aluminum that have 2 sided tape on them that stick to a standard console, hell you can even see the glue between the pieces.

If you look at used market value on a 2004 RX-8 with 20,000 miles and a 2004 Mustang GT with 2000 miles lets see what you get.

Mustang GT 5 speed
Leather
Multi CD
Power seat
Prem Wheels
20,000 miles

MSRP
$26,940
Kelly Blue Book Trade - In value Good Condition
$14,785
That's 54% of it's value in one year.

2004 RX-8 GT 6 speed manual
20,000 miles
BOSE/CD
Power heated seats
18" wheels
Moonroof

MSRP
$31,100
Kelly Blue Book Trade - In value Good Condition
$20,425
That's 65% of it's value in one year.

Who wins? It's now a fact that the Mustang drops like a rock.

In a recent study gaging intrest on car buying JD power found that it takes a rebate of $4000 or more to get a buyer interested in an American car. It takes $500 to get that same person interested in a foreign car of the same category. This is why the price of cars goes up. So auto makers can pad their pockets in order to take that $4000 hit for rebate money on a new car. Where are other sources that this money trickels in from, assembly costs.

If a car maker produces 200,000 units per year and they can save $5 per vehicle by installing a "cheaper" dash or deleting map pockets, or faux metallic trim items such as door handles or switches, or switching from a multi pieced door panel to a multi textured panel made from one piece that has the same "look".

That equates in the long run to $1 million dollars saved by just changing one piece. So think about that when you hear a car maker talk about going from one model year to the next with an all new redesigned product that is "nearly the same price as last year" with all the updated parts and new technology.

You get what you pay for.

RX8_Buckeye

Why are you talking about the old Mustang? Everything you just stated, as far as you know, is not applicable to the new Mustang.


The 3-year residual value of the new Mustang has been placed around 50%, which is a huge step up from the old Mustang, and competitive with many vehicles in its segment. One of the main reasons: Ford has drastically reduced its sales to rental fleets, which was one of the main contributors to the low resale value--the market was just flooded with them because of this.



A blanket statement like that is very misleading. There is a huge demand for the new Mustang (there were nearly 25,000 pre-ordered... how many RX-8s are sold in a year?), and I'm sure even you could have guessed that there are NO rebates currently offered.



It's all about what's new. I guarantee that you'd draw MUCH more attention with a new Mustang, for at least the next 6-12 months, than you would with the RX-8. After that, the edge goes to the RX-8 simply because there will be fewer of them on the road. That's one thing I love about the RX-8--it's relatively unique.



You're very naive if you don't think the RX-8 has its fair share of very cheap parts. The Mustang is an iconic car meant to bolster Ford's image and increase showroom traffic, not a car that is expected to drastically alter the company's bottom line. Did you ever consider the possibility that it might take several years for Ford to break even with this program? Also, just because you can produce something cheaper doesn't mean the quality has been reduced. The entire platform was redesigned--there were plenty of situations in which intended function could be achieved in a manner that ended up being cheaper than the old way.

SHOWOFF

You sound just like one of the "bean counters" from Ford that has not a clue how the car business works.

If Ford is not counting on the new Mustang then why did they say this (From CBS market watch) "In what Ford repeatedly has called the "Year of the Car," the three new vehicles are a chance to prove its turnaround is on track.

"These new models are significant. They are not just facelifts," said Burnham Securities analyst David Healy.

All three will be launched within 60 days, Lyons said. Ads will begin hitting the airwaves in mid-October for the Five Hundred and the Freestyle. The Mustang promotional push begins in November. Together, the ad blitz will be considerable: Ford is spending 50 percent more on ads in the fourth quarter than it spent last year when it rolled out the F-150."


I never said that the RX-8 didn't have cheap parts. And yes there are incentives on the new Mustang. Sevented finance rates. By next quarter there will be at least a $1000 rebate on the car. The reason that there is still such a "buzz" about the car is because Ford is still holding them in storage to create a supply shortage. We had 5 of them sitting at the rail yard locally here that were on "hold".

The platform also was not redesigned. It was borrowed from the Licoln LS the DEW-98 platform.

If you like the cars so much, go buy one. I'm sure that there is a dealer out there that is willing to sell you one at full list so you can be just like everyone else.

RX8_Buckeye

Yeah, I'm sure you know much more about the business than the "bean counters" at Ford. I never said it wasn't an important vehicle launch to Ford, just that it isn't necessarily a product that is intended to be extremely profitable. There are a lot of other things to consider, like market share, product image, CAFE requirements, etc.

I am almost positive that there are no incentives on the new Mustang, so please provide some evidence--especially regarding the $1000 rebate you claim will be offered next quarter. By the way, what is a "sevented" finance rate? The statement about Ford trying to create a shortage of the new Mustang is absurd! They are pumping out as many Mustangs as they possibly can at the plant, working 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. As with any brand new product launch, there are a lot of minor issues that come up that prevent immediately delivery of some vehicles, which may explain the "hold" you are talking about. Ford is working to get those vehicles to dealers as soon as possible. Otherwise, there is no return on their investment and it hurts the fiscal performance of their automotive operations.

I know all about the platform. It is based off the DEW-98 platform, but so many changes were made that it is now considered to be a separate platform on which other vehicles will surely be built.

cas2themoe

I'm just telling you all from my point of view that there is NO Way the Base Mustang is going to break the 5's in 0-60mph. My point will be proven as future test will be conducted and to tell you the truth I don't think the V-8 Mustang will break the 4's in 0-60mph. Its just too heavy as I have said before.

RX8_Buckeye

Nobody here thinks the base Mustang will break into the 5's. There is no need to prove your point. As for the V8 doing 0-60 in less than 5 seconds, I don't know, it's very close. I believe it's similar to saying that the RX-8 can do 0-60 in less than 6 seconds--some will report it, but can your average driver replicate it? Not usually.

Shamblerock

If car and driver says 0-60 can be done in 5 seconds, its probably quite true. But if Motor trend says that, its questionable. Somebody should close this thread, thinking of the Mustang for so long makes me want to puke!

cas2themoe

Oh well, it will still get smoked on the track because of its sucky suspension and weight. But I'll make my final judgment when I see it in person.

clyde

I'm finding this thread to be terribly amusing. Almost everyone is basing their opinions of the new Mustang on the old one...the ond one which was riding on a 25 year old chassis that was never better than mediocre to begin with. The new Mustang is an entirely new car and very little, if anything, about the old car applies outside of some basic core characteristics that have defined what a pony car is for the last 40 years (note: it's not a sports car and doesn't pretend to be one).

For the non-drag racers, it would be nice to have an IRS, but the new rear suspension setup is leaps and bounds better than the old. The three link and Panhard limit rear wheel movement so much better than the old quad shock setup it's not even funny. The rear end stays better planted through bumpy turns better than any other live rear axled car I've ever driven. Bump steer, which used to be a major issue, has now been relegated to a minor nitpick.

The new Mustang handles like a pig, but a very athletic pig it is considering it's 3500 lbs of mass. Like the RX-8, it could stand some stiffer springs, but body motion is better damped than the RX-8 with OEM shocks. The RX-8s mid turn floaty feelings are not present, body roll is much less pronounced from the driver's seat view and overall, the car feels more stable. That stabilty is a double edged sword because it comes about as a result of its heft. The Mustang's steering is quick and direct, but doesn't compare in sharpness, response or feel to the RX-8. The Mustang is certainly less agile, but that's only a real issue if you autocross (and even then, the Mustang will likely be classed with other overweight, overpowered pigs).

Regarding the straightline performance, on some of the Mustang forums, people are posting timeslips from the new GTs. Automatics seem to be consistently turning mid 13s with high 99 MPH trap speeds. 5 speeds are turning high 13s with 102ish traps. 60 foot times seem to be in the 1.8 second range.

Quality? Everyone can look at a few and sit in them and draw their own conclusions about plastics, switchgear, ergonomics, fit & finish, etc. The first time I sat in an RX-8 I was pretty disappointed as everything looked and felt cheap to me when I was expecting more/better. In terms of production quality and reliability...like any brand new car, we'll see. The five Fox bodied Mustangs I had through the mid 80s-early 90s were bulletproof and I beat the living **** out of them every time I got behind the wheel. Try as I might, the only things they ever needed were tanks of gas every 180ish miles, oil changes every 3,000 miles and four tires with every other oil change (I wasn't just peeling out from every stop sign/light). As I pointed out, though, it's a brand new car now, so that doesn't mean anything.

The looks don't really need much comment. Response to styling is a personal thing and we're all more than capable of looking at pictures or seeing them on the road or a dealer's lot and draw our own conclusions.

Overall, when looking at the new Mustang GT, you're doing the car and yourself a disservice if you don't look at it for what it is. It's not a pretend entry level luxury car. It's not a middle line sports car. It's not a two door version of a four door family sedan. It's an inexpensive car built to go fast in a straight line and is comfy enough for pleasant commuting in stop and go rush hour traffic, cruising and high speed trip taking which also happens to go around turns pretty darn well. Nothing else available new touches it in terms of price/performance/value if that's what you want. Everything about the car has to be looked at through the price filter.

All of that said, I test drove one last weekend and have been trying to figure out a way to add one to the family fleet ever since. The only way I'll be able to get one any time soon is if I sell the RX-8 which I don't really want to do right now. I'm still thinking about it, though. I'd rather commute in the Mustang than the RX-8. I'd rather autocross the RX-8. For some "fun" driving, I'd rather have the RX-8. For other "fun" driving, I'd rather have the Mustang. It's a tough spot...and as problems go, a pretty good one to have. :D

dmp

Two things:

RX8's feel 'floaty'? Weird. The Mustang has 'less' body roll than an RX8? Again...weird. Must be all about 'perception', because the RX8 I drove had nearly 'nil' body roll.

and...where - just WHERE are those 'cheap parts' for the RX8?? I'd guess $1500 on a MGT for headers, exhaust, intake (And resulting 30-50hp?) would be a $/hp performance bargain, compared to the 5?10? HP those would offer an RX8.