MPester

That's why when I am shopping for Sports Car features and amenities are out of the window.

P00Man

the car looked like a base model - no leather, no nav, no heated seats, no sunroof, no nothin.....
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Vapir Air One 5.0 Vaporizer Reviews

SPDFRK

For a little reference the S2000 gets the best times by dumping the clutch at 7500rpm. You may be hesitant on doing this with your car but you will get used to it. You just have to think on a different scale when you have a high revving engine.

Hercules

Not worried about the engine, worried about the clutch..

rooster

Hello.

Long time reader (about a month now), first time writer.

Great article. I've got two questions:

1. How did you get your hands on an April C & D on March 1st???

2. It looks like we are missing one page regarding the G35 write up. Any chance we can get that one scanned as well????

Thanks a lot,

Rooster

Titanium, 6 spd, No Nav

wakeech

welcome to the forum rooster.

P00Man

is this the same ariticle as "famous us mag to run comparo story"?
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Body science

rooster

The "comparo article" was comparing the RX-8 to the G35C. It has to be the one.

Dilly

I'd like to see what laferle has to say about the G35. Says he has a G35 and A4. In my mind (all alone, probably) the S4 and G35 are the cars I'd be comparing to. Really, all whoopass cars, hard to go wrong with any of them.

But I'm partial to the 8, some because of the price, some because my first car was a '79 rx-7. It was a particularly craptacular copy, (backfired all the time and the carb flooded, leaving me stranded quite a few times) but I still loved it. Only Jeebus knows why.


Oh, right. Spinning it up to 8500 was just a thrill. That's why I loved it.

TJRX8

The one thing the G35 has that the RX8 doesn't is automatic electric sliding front seats to gain access to the rear seats. The 8 has two extra doors so it doesn't need this frivolous accessory.

Loaded vs loaded I think they are a wash. Add another category to the 8's total.

PS: what the hell is the Mustang doing in there?

RedRX

Nice review. I'm glad that the RX-8 received such positive press from C&D -- now let's hope that this translates into solid sales for Mazda.

Although I don't post much, the posts I've made about the RX-8 have pertained to its engine power -- or lack thereof. Reading the article I noticed that, "despite the handling advantages, the RX-8 was the slowest on the racetrack and that's because of a shortage of midrange grunt in the rotary engine." I also read myriad comments about the lack of readily-available power from the Renesis. Franky, the engine seemed to represent the RX-8's only low point, at least in my reading of the article. This, IMO, is very unfortunate, especially since the RX-8 is being touted as "the return of the rotary."

These sentiments reflect my issue with the RX-8 almost from its inception. It simply lacks the power that is necessary to run with the competition. How many times have I read on this forum that there is much more to speedy track times than power. Well, if this article is any indication, power is clearly a significant factor. Given the noteworthy handling of the RX-8, a little more power would presumably put the RX-8 ahead of these two cars on a road course. Power is a factor, and the RX-8 could definitely use some more of it.

Now, I could be wrong about all this. Maybe most people don't care about being outrun by G35s at the road racing track, and by Altima's at the strip or from light to light (I'm not advocating street racing, just making a point here). But IMO, people do care about these things. It's why they buy magazines like C&D and check the stats pages for laptimes, lateral acceleration, 0-60, 1/4 mile times, etc.

Mazda may have a winner here, even with the rotary engine, which C&D seems less than enthusiastic about. At least they really like the car as a whole, and that's a good thing. However, it seems to me that with more power, the RX-8 would have a decided advantage over the competition.

At this point, I just can't wait to see the MPS RX-8 -- now that sounds interesting.

FWIW,

pelucidor

Regarding Features/Amenities - the photos show a cloth seat for the RX-8 so we know it is not a Grand Touring vehicle. This means the car is probably missing some or all of the following items:
Auto Day/Night Mirror
Homelink garage door opener on mirror
BOSE Premium Sound System with 9 speakers
Dynamic Stability Control with Traction Control
Leather Seating Surfaces
Fog Lamps
Heated Mirrors
Heated Seats
Moonroof
Power Seats/6 way driver/Lumbar
Xenon Headlights

If I didn't have any of the above and I was comparing to a G35C Leather + Premium I would also give the RX-8 a 5/10 for Amenities. For me the most important items in order are:
Fun to drive
Transmission (daily driver through Houston traffic)
Handling
Brakes
which all got a perfect score.

BTW I went to FreshAlloy (where I hung out when I was going to get a G35 last year) and found the following: http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1
It makes for sad reading - the ignorance and bias against Mazda is surprising. I didn't bother to make a comment there as it would be a lose-lose situation - hopefully nobody else here will feel the need to correct them...

Hercules

I think that Mazda is catering to a more responsible and older audience with this car... thus the lack of need for the shattering 0-60 times, etc.. All the while, keeping it affordable.

I think the RX-8 is good for its price. If you intend on racing it, we've mentioned many times here, then this isn't the car for you. It's a car that will serve more utilitarian purposes than a G35 Coupe, 350Z or whatever, be affordable, and be a BLAST to drive. The '10' rating on the 'Fun to Drive' category is indicative of this.

Would I have liked faster? Sure I would. But I do need the utility of the back seats, and also I need to keep the car within budget. I wanted a 330Ci BMW, but unfortunately that price is just too steep!

When the MPS RX-8 comes out, and hopefully in an ELEGANT body shape like the RX-8 is and nothing like the hideous pictures I've seen... I think everybody will be happy. The RX-8 is going to be the car to have for the next 2 years or so. With my 3 year lease I figure I can watch the evolution unfold infront of me for another year, and then perhaps get into the MPS RX-8 or something else, provided the money is there for such a venture.

The RX-8 gives you the best of both worlds... it's by no means 'slow' comparitively, lap times were close for both the G35, Mustang, and RX-8. However keep in mind that lap times being one thing... most people are going to autoX this car, myself included. And when you put the Mustang and G35 into that equation... who do you think will win then?

5.0THIS

I dont see the comparison here.... I think the S4 and the G35 are both better made cars than the RX-8, and offer far more to their owners, especially when it comes to power and amenities. and being as how you all feel that the RX-8 can handle well, go race an S4 in anything but perfectly dry conditions, and the S4 would own it, and even in the dry, I'll bet a S4 would keep up with an RX-8 quite well, and if not, it's a simple matter of upping the boost, as any late model rx-7 owner would know :D

Hercules

The new S4 for one, has no turbos. I would definately agree that the S4 is better built than the RX-8 but that also comes at a cost of weight... the S4 is a bulky car.

The G35 is not better built in my opinion, than the RX-8. I'd venture personally, that they are very similar in build quality.

The S4 also, is not an option even if it were the same price as the RX-8. Why? Because it's AWD, and that provides a different driving experience than the RX-8 would. RWD allows me to do some stupid stuff and keep the weight down too! The S4 would be great on a track, and straight line.. but take it to an autocross and not only will an RX-8 beat it... so would a Miata.

BryanH

RedRX - I understand your point of view here. But I think some things need to be put in perspective. I don't think it's fair to expect the $28,000 1.3-liter RX-8 to compete with the $35,000 4.6-liter Supercharged SVT Mustang and the $37,000 3.5-liter V6 G35 in a drag race. And while the Mazda was in fact the slowest of the three on the road course, all three cars were very close. The G35 was only a tenth faster, while the uber-powerful SVT Mustang was about 8 tenths speedier than the RX. I think that says something for the well-roundedness of the RX-8 package, that it's able to compete with these cars while being both more practical and more affordable.

The racetrack used (Streets of Willow Springs) is somewhat of a power course as well, with a long straightaway and a few uphill sections.

Speed isn't everything either, unless you actually race. My mother's '95 Camry V6 would beat my '87 MR2 (when it was stock) in a drag race, but one of those cars is *much* more fun to drive than the other. Heck, a new Saturn would waste my MR2 from a stoplight too. That certainly doesn't make me want one.

wakeech

for comparison's sake, let's see how the RX-8 compares to a car of similar mass, with a comparable amount of engine: S2000...

let's not forget that the RX-8 seems "slow" compared to cars with WAY the hell more engine... saying a Miata is slow is one thing, but saying a <6 second (to 60) car is slow is completely rediculous... i mean, a TurboII only did the sprint in like 7.2 or something... this car is FAST, mere tenths of a second behind an FD... c'mon let's stop bellyaching over the brilliant 1.3L that could, okay?? it's a fan-******'-tastic engine...

you wanna go ahead and plunk in a V8, be my guest... i'll just think you're a retard.

Hercules

:D

rooster

Hey Hercules,

By chance, did you miss scanning one page?? I don't see the write ups on the mustang or the G35C.

The most important one is there, but I am interested in seeing what else they wrote.

Any chance of getting the rest scanned??

Thanks,

Rooster

Hercules

I'll email Bryan to get the extra page... he's the one who got me the article

5.0THIS

Ok... I'll agree that a G35 is similar in build quality, although I would still give a slight edge to the G...... But as far as the S4 goes..... I'm not too sure it wouldnt be quicker than an RX-8 90% of the time... and the only reason I say that is this: AWD=easier to drive fast, remember, most people just dont have much driver skills, and I'm willing to bet that for 90% of RX8 owners, the RX-8's handling abilities will be much higher than the driver's skills can ever explore..... on the other hand, you can throw around an S4 with relative abandon compared to an RX-8 with relatively little skill, which most drivers possess I'm just looking at the "real world" aspect of this.

and Wakeech, why the hate for V8s? Tell the next ZO6 driver you see in your RX-8 that his V8 sucks, and then proceed to watch him kick the ever living **** out of your car at half throttle. And then go race him at a road course, and again, he'll beat you handily, and then.. go to an autocross, and there's a good chance he'll beat you there too. Have a nice day

Hercules

A Vette will not beat a MIATA in a proper autocross. Why? Because you don't get above 3rd gear and it's not about torque, it's about being nimble. Tossing that big V8 side to side doesn't get time off your lap.

But I'll say this.... I love Vettes :D

RedRX

Bryan -- good points -- especially the one about the fun/satisfaction factor.

I do agree that the RX8 is a very different car than the Cobra -- the Cobra is a pony car that happens to have some room and handles pretty darn well, considering that chassis Ford is working with. Bottom line, I don't think that many people will cross shop the RX8 and Cobra. However, with that said, if one's objective is to go fast, in almost any venue, the Cobra is probably the better choice. BTW, the Cobra, fully equipped, stickers for $34K including shipping. This is very close to the cost of a a fully equipped RX8.

Wakeech -- I'm not sure whether your comments were directed towardsme or not, but just in case, I have a few comments.

Go ahead and compare the RX8 to the S2000. Probably a fair and good race. My guess is that both cars will turn similar track times, although the mag numbers I've seen show the S2000 out accelerating the RX8 by a small margin. And BTW, that's from a 2.0L motor. The Renesis may displace 1.3L but, due to its two-stroke nature, it breathes like a 2.6 -- the same way a two stroke 250 cc motor can process process air like a 500 cc 4 stroke. Rotary fans tend to forget this. Making power is not magic -- it's simply a function of the amount of air and fuel that can be burned by the engine. So, in a sense, the 1.3L Renesis does have a displacement advantage over a 2.0L four stroke (the S2000, for example), and this fact is recognized by every racing body that I'm aware of. Anyway, I digress...

In terms of 0-60 times, the RX8 must be driven brutally hard in order to eek out a sub 6 second 0-60 time. 8,000 rpm launches are impractical if not irresponsible, so although the car is capable of running those times, most RX8s will never see that kind of performance. And in terms of comparing it's 0-60 times with the RX7 -- at least one mag tested the third gen at 4.9 seconds 0-60. 60 mph is about 100 feet per second, so, by the end of a 0-60 mph jaunt, the RX7 could be in front of the RX8 by a fair margin. And that's from a car that's more than 10 years older than the RX8.

And finally, I never suggested using anythign other than a rotary in the RX8. I just want more power :-) And, hopefully, I'll get it in an MPS RX8 or new RX-7.

5.0THIS

well, in it's repsective class, I think the corvette is the hands down winner. This link is for the 2002 SCCA Solo 2 nationals -- the final and biggest autocross race of the year. In the SS class, 52 placed on this sheet, all but 3 were corvettes, the highest placing no-corvette was an M3 in 29th place
http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...esults/ss.html

Now... here's a link to the class where Miata's compete http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...esults/cs.html now remember, they run the exact same course as the SS class does, and first off, it seems the miata doesnt quite rule it's class quite like the vette does, with a toyota MR2 coming in second behind a miata, and after that the results seem fairly split as far as number of MR2s placing compared to miatas. And oh BTW.... take a look at their times..... they are slower than the vette's times on the same track, so I guess when you said
you were kinda wrong huh? :o And dont tell me it isnt a proper autocross, this is SCCA solo 2 here, and this was the national championships.. it doesnt get any more "proper" than that. Miata guys may never be willing to admit it, but the heavy vette with the big V8 owns all right now when it comes to autocross, hands down. the proof is in the stats!

IGOZMZM

I think the major problem that Mazda or anyone for that matter will have with deciding what kind of car this is will be that no one wants the RX-8 to be compared to theirs. It offers more in each catagory: More sports car than a normal sedan/2+2 and more pacticallity than a Sports car. Yes it may not beat the cars in everything they have in a class but it offers a better total package for the money in ANY catagory you put it in.

Sports cars don't want it to be compared to it because it has four doors, and 2+2 or coupes and sedans don't want to be compared to it because it's more of a sports car.

So maybe not the best of any one world but certainly IMO can be argued that it gives one of the best of all the worlds combined.