Hydrogen-fueled rotary RX8 Next Spring
11-08-2005, 01:40 PM
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Hydrogen-fueled rotary RX8 Next Spring
"Next spring, the RX-8 RE powered by a hydrogen-fueled rotary engine will be available for lease. This is six months sooner than originally planned."
This was from MSN's website.
http://autos.msn.com/as/minishow/art...o2005&src=News
This was from MSN's website.
http://autos.msn.com/as/minishow/art...o2005&src=News
11-08-2005, 02:43 PM
#3
RX8 and a Truk....
Originally Posted by mikeb
not very good looking to me
You don't like white rx8s? Or is it the stickers - which I'm SURE wouldn't be on the production model. Where does one BUY hydrogen, though?
11-09-2005, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dmp
Where does one BUY hydrogen, though?
Still exciting though - a big
to Mazda for putting this together. Anyone know if this is a Japan-only offering for now?Also, I'm just dying to learn more about relative fuel-per-mile costs of hydrogen, as well as the obvious question of how much HP and torque they are making in the hydrogen version.
11-09-2005, 08:43 PM
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When I lived in California Schwarzenegger (sp?) proposed to build hydrogen fueling stations along the I-5 corridor from Sacramento to San Diego. If this does take shape I guess the only place you could drive a car fueled like this would be in CA. Just wondering though... What is the advantage in having a rotary powered by hydrogen vs. a traditional piston driven car. Considering my outstanding fuel economy right now and my (perhaps flawed) understanding that you will be getting less milage from a gallon of hydrogen when compared to gasoline whats the point? Just because you can do it does it mean you should do it?
11-09-2005, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RX-8 8-XЯ
When I lived in California Schwarzenegger (sp?) proposed to build hydrogen fueling stations along the I-5 corridor from Sacramento to San Diego. If this does take shape I guess the only place you could drive a car fueled like this would be in CA. Just wondering though... What is the advantage in having a rotary powered by hydrogen vs. a traditional piston driven car. Considering my outstanding fuel economy right now and my (perhaps flawed) understanding that you will be getting less milage from a gallon of hydrogen when compared to gasoline whats the point? Just because you can do it does it mean you should do it?
11-10-2005, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SSJ 909
hmm you dont believe in clean air?? Doesnt cali have an insane amount of smog?
I also think you missed my point though... I was more curious about why use a rotary engine over a piston one? I really don't know the answer. Is it because of the size difference or....?
11-10-2005, 09:13 AM
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The prototype was pushbutton-switchable between gas and hydrogen. IIRC it made slightly less-than-stock HP in gas mode and like 104 peak HP in hydrogen mode (this is with an electric-spool-assist turbo). If you live anywhere near anywhere where you can fill up with hydrogen, it could be pretty cool.
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11-10-2005, 12:29 PM
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1.3L is enough 4 anybody
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Originally Posted by policyvote
The prototype was pushbutton-switchable between gas and hydrogen. IIRC it made slightly less-than-stock HP in gas mode and like 104 peak HP in hydrogen mode (this is with an electric-spool-assist turbo).
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...3/article.html
Edmunds reports that the RX-8 RE is actually a gas-electric-hydrogen hybrid, making 110 HP in hydrogen-only mode, and making 210 HP when burning gas. Regarding the various drivetrain technologies:
These include an electric motor to boost engine torque at low rpm and an electric motor-assisted turbocharger, both used to improve acceleration at low rpm. An idle-stop system turns off the engine when the car is stopped and then starts again automatically when the driver is ready to accelerate. Regenerative braking recovers energy during deceleration and braking to charge the car’s 144-volt battery.
A rotary engine is especially well suited for burning hydrogen since it uses separate chambers for induction and combustion, overcoming the backfiring issues often faced when using hydrogen in piston engines. In addition, Mazda says the separate induction chamber also provides a safer temperature for the engine’s dual hydrogen injectors with their rubber seals, which can be damaged by the higher temperatures of conventional engines. Dual injectors are used in each of the engine’s twin rotor housings since hydrogen has an extremely low density, thus greater volumes of this fuel must be injected than gasoline.
11-10-2005, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dmp
You don't like white rx8s? Or is it the stickers - which I'm SURE wouldn't be on the production model. Where does one BUY hydrogen, though?
I was looking at the senku concept
11-10-2005, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RX-8 8-XЯ
I completely agree, however the infrastructure is just not there for enough people to buy a hydrogen powered car at this time. I'm not sure if any other states have decided to do this, but something tells me that the vast majority have not. I don't see this having an impact on air quality in the near future with nooone buying in either because of either the prohibitive cost of the technology or the requirement of being leashed to the I-5 corridor. We need more than a hobby project in California to clean the air (ie if you want clean air we need to reevaluate the cars we drive: SUV's and "gasp" cars like the RX8).
I also think you missed my point though... I was more curious about why use a rotary engine over a piston one? I really don't know the answer. Is it because of the size difference or....?
I also think you missed my point though... I was more curious about why use a rotary engine over a piston one? I really don't know the answer. Is it because of the size difference or....?
If they get the bal rolling and holdon to it, once the mkt starts to accept it they will make an *** load of money and already be established...
As far as rotary over piston goes.
The piston engines had the tendency of back firing, while the rotary was much more stable
11-11-2005, 01:53 AM
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Thanks all for the explanation... don;t think I'll be buying in quite yet though... as much as I'd love my 8 to be a bit more environmentally friendly, not ready to drop the extra $20,000 (what I'm sure will be a minimum premium when these things come out) for the priviledge. If I really did care enough about it I could always get a Toyota hybrid and fit it to take AC power... good milage, more reasonable price, kinda ugly, but hey can't have everything
11-11-2005, 02:29 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by SSJ 909
hmm you dont believe in clean air?? Doesnt cali have an insane amount of smog?
It is no exaggeration to say that the RX-8 puts out less smog creating components than that of a 100 or more cars from the 80's.
If the RX-8 miraculously runs more efficiently on Hydrogen than gasoline then that is great. Hydrogen isn't all that cheap though. It takes energy to make it from water or other forms of bound hydrogen. So in essense you have to burn fossil fuels to produce energy to "refine" hydrogen. (That energy could come nuclear, wind or electrical provided that they are available.)
I think it is more marketing than anything.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. You also have to worry about the hydrogen needing to be pressurized for storage in the vehicle. This could lead to a Hindenburg type event while gas just merely burns in the event of an accident.
11-13-2005, 10:53 PM
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The car runs on either hydrogen or gasoline, so even if there is no infrastructure yet the car can still be sold and used. The biggest thing i see is that hydrogen needs to be kept under pressure and so on and so on. I have seen where it is kept and its a tank that fills the entire trunk. Well thats awsome, no trunk! on top of that tank cant go any where near as far a gas tank of equal size.
11-13-2005, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MrWigggles
Cali's pollution is not due to new cars though. It is and will always be the old gross polluters that pollute California's air. Cali doesn't have the heart to kick people out of their 20 year olld beater but they will continue to squeeze every last drop of juice from the new cars no matter how dry of a raisin the new cars are.
It is no exaggeration to say that the RX-8 puts out less smog creating components than that of a 100 or more cars from the 80's.
If the RX-8 miraculously runs more efficiently on Hydrogen than gasoline then that is great. Hydrogen isn't all that cheap though. It takes energy to make it from water or other forms of bound hydrogen. So in essense you have to burn fossil fuels to produce energy to "refine" hydrogen. (That energy could come nuclear, wind or electrical provided that they are available.)
I think it is more marketing than anything.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. You also have to worry about the hydrogen needing to be pressurized for storage in the vehicle. This could lead to a Hindenburg type event while gas just merely burns in the event of an accident.
It is no exaggeration to say that the RX-8 puts out less smog creating components than that of a 100 or more cars from the 80's.
If the RX-8 miraculously runs more efficiently on Hydrogen than gasoline then that is great. Hydrogen isn't all that cheap though. It takes energy to make it from water or other forms of bound hydrogen. So in essense you have to burn fossil fuels to produce energy to "refine" hydrogen. (That energy could come nuclear, wind or electrical provided that they are available.)
I think it is more marketing than anything.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. You also have to worry about the hydrogen needing to be pressurized for storage in the vehicle. This could lead to a Hindenburg type event while gas just merely burns in the event of an accident.
Dude offcourse new cars produce less smog than older cars.
But the problem is that there are millions of these cars on the road.
50 year old war wagons dont make up the majority of cali's cars driven everyday lol
The other thing is, why dont they add solar panels to the top of the wing and/or the roof? This way it can help to charge up the juice needed?
11-13-2005, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SSJ 909
The other thing is, why dont they add solar panels to the top of the wing and/or the roof? This way it can help to charge up the juice needed?
http://www.envirolet.com/50w.html
So if you wanted to produce the same power that the Renesis produces, you would only need 3500.
11-14-2005, 12:14 AM
#22
Metatron
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Commercial production....
The plant I work at makes (and uses) the most hydrogen of any industrial plant in the world.
We make it from natural gas and water, because it is by far the most efficient and economical method available. Actually a very neat process - we use the heat from burning some of the gas to strip the hydrogen from water molecules...CH4 + 2H2O = CO2 + 8H.
You would need many square miles of solar cells to make usable quantities of H2, and even then it is very inefficient, way more practical to just use the electricity itself. H2 is a lousy fuel from an energy standpoint, it would produce only about the same energy when burned as it took to compress it to 3000 psi in your fuel tank! (...and you think your trunk is small NOW!)
If you google around, you may even find the first public hydrogen "gas station" being built in Iceland, (by a certain oil company) but that is mostly being produced by waste heat from geothermal generators, not really applicable to this continent.
S
We make it from natural gas and water, because it is by far the most efficient and economical method available. Actually a very neat process - we use the heat from burning some of the gas to strip the hydrogen from water molecules...CH4 + 2H2O = CO2 + 8H.
You would need many square miles of solar cells to make usable quantities of H2, and even then it is very inefficient, way more practical to just use the electricity itself. H2 is a lousy fuel from an energy standpoint, it would produce only about the same energy when burned as it took to compress it to 3000 psi in your fuel tank! (...and you think your trunk is small NOW!)
If you google around, you may even find the first public hydrogen "gas station" being built in Iceland, (by a certain oil company) but that is mostly being produced by waste heat from geothermal generators, not really applicable to this continent.
S
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