RufusVonStorm

Step 1: You are arguing with Jeff AND the topic is rotary related
Yes: Go to step 2
No: You may be correct

Step 2: This concerns an order you placed with Jeff or Jeff’s attitude
Yes: You may be correct
No: Go to Step 3

Your name is CRH or Fred
Yes: You may be correct
No: You are wrong

ASH8

BINGO!..

Some never Get it...cant see the wood for the trees...

It is all about POWER for "some", but you see the rest of the world "the average Joe Blow"....POWER is not needed, it is a cost most don't want...or can afford.

UK, Australia, New Zealand, many European countries, all are becoming so policed with cameras that Speed and Power just does not work...unfortunately..

Unless you want to drive with a disqualified license?

In the end the consumer will dictate what power and what cars will be made...

And POWER cars are just Not a market winner...except the USA.

You guys just don't know How Lucky you are that so many of your states are not going down Speed Camera Law Enforcement path....yet.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

We had them. We complained. They took them down.

I'm going to use this!

zoom44

there are more but .... FIXED

ASH8

RRRrrrr

ASH8

You Guys are So Lucky....

WE complained and the "pathetic lot here does nothing'!!

The Governments (state) put in more!!.

Imagine if your speed limits were 50 KMH Default, that is 30 MPH!, suburban.

Some areas, 60 (36MPH) outer areas, 70 (42MPH), open space 80 KMH (48MPH), and main freeways 100-110 KMH (60 to 66 MPH).

Most Stop Lights have Red light Cameras with Speed detection, so over the limits by around 5% and you get a fine around $300 AU, plus you lose 3 demerit points, you get 12 every 3 years (they do not accumulate).

Plus here in Suburbs we have about 30 Mobile Speed Camera's in Ford Falcon Wagons and Holden's front Bumper, they park on the side of the road and Snap you, NO pics juts a fine in the post, you then have to 'request' a pic.

Motor Bike Cops too, with Laser Speed (hairdryers), can be anywhere and they pull your over, and fine you.

Road toll has gone down around 70%, so they claim it is a success.

There is little enjoyment left in Motoring here in my state, and almost all others in Aussie Land are doing or have the same..BASTARDS!

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

/\ still plenty of roads here where i can open her up and feel relatively comfortable i'm not going to get snapped ...

ASH8

/\ Agree, but here you have to go about 80 KMS (48 miles) plus out to find them..

Even Country Cops/Patrol Cars here have speed guns (250 miles out of city).

Cop cars here have detectors that will check your oncoming speed as they and you are passing each other!..
Every Cop car here has disposable Breath Analyzers (alcohol) and Saliva Drug Test kits...Ice and Weed.

Remember the Northern Territory here had NO speed limit restrictions until around 3 years ago...
Cannonball RUN!

arghx7

^ damn. that's hardcore.

i think the USA has such an anti-government sentiment among many that speed cameras just won't be supported in most places. Some municipalities have red light cameras though.

Chibana

I would have to disagree with that. There was a study done not too long ago that looked at which brands generation Y thinks are cool. Mazda was the top brand. The reactions I received over the years regarding my Mazda3 and RX-8 support that assessment. I think it used to be true that Mazdas were (largely correctly) perceived as cheap and cute, but hasn't been for the last decade or so.

I have no doubt that Mazda can significantly improve the rotary. I just question how well it will compare with the piston engines that are available at that time. I don't believe the rotary has to match the fuel efficiency and power of competing engines. It just has to be in the same ballpark so that when it's put into a lighter car (as the RX-8 is compared to almost everything else you could reasonably compare it to), it will have reasonably comparable acceleration numbers. I don't think it has to match them, just be fast enough so that the superior handling of the Mazda and the 9,000 RPM redline (which will hopefully stick around) will be enough to justify the car, especially if Mazda sets moderate sales goals.

ASH8

Try Driving here...when I got my RX-8 I lost nearly ALL but 1 point in less than a year, all by Bike Cops hiding down hills or behind bushes..

So I have been driving around for just over a year with 1 point left, then No License.

I get 3 back in 4 days from a Stop Light fine 3 Years ago (old car)...then I will have 4 to lose...it takes up to 3 years to get them all back in the order you lost them.

I find this interesting in the USA..
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...eature?cid=327

IMO, there is doing to be a diminishing market for Fast and Powerful cars, much depends on what China does, now the worlds largest new car market.

Comes to a point where if a car does not sell it wont be imported or even made..the consumer rules..

Ford could not make money out of Aston Martin, Jaguar, etc...without Corporate Welfare (tax payer) a few others would disappear.

Back on Topic..
While this is Good news about another Rotary, I am not so sure we will see a stand alone RX~, I hope we do..

Mazda are waiting also to see what the US economy does, it's their most important and largest market for Rotaries...China was a FAIL.

Interesting times ahead..

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Generation "Y" doesn't drive the market. They are the "youth" segment and they buy cheap cars.
The Mazda2 is their car.

ASH8

Brett,
Here is a good one in Todays Local..

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1225942441374

Revenue Raising??

Police have come under fire for showing little discretion during Operation Rural Focus, with one farmer slugged with a $370 fine for having mud on his number plate in the rain.

b'Eight'

They don't drive the market today, but in 20 years they do. That is why developing brand loyalty is so important.

Spin9k

If Mazda keeps going with sports cars let alone rotary sports cars, that'll be really something IMO. It is always possible they have the "Never say Die" philosophy in their DNA. Let's just hope they also have the bankroll to support it.

But Japanese sports car production is dying in reality, I mean Hell, Toyota ditched sports cars years ago, Nissan is languishing w/370Z Boulevard Tourer (the GT-R is a strange beast, thankfully, just fugly as all hell), Honda dropped theirs, Acura ditched theirs, Subaru & Mitsu only have gussied up sedans.

If the FT-86 ever actually is produced that offers some hope, although it appears it will only be a prettified version of the cheap-*** tin can Celica that was thankfully euthanized.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

Good points. I just got back from 3 weeks in Beijing and Lanzchou, which is 1100 miles to its northwest. Chinese drivers are both tremendously bad and very slow; it's the weirdest combination I've ever seen in my rather extensive travels. Performance is an alien concept there - bling is king but only as-delivered from the manufacturer. (Middle-Easterners and Latin Americans have the ultimate car-mod culture). Trends in Europe and North America are strongly away from a performance culture for a number of reasons:
(1) Increased traffic density. (2) Stricter laws, greater enforcement, and improved detection technology. (3) Little appreciation of, or respect for, mechanical technology. (This is one stepped removed from a reduction in respect for manhood in general and an elevation of its charicature: machoman.)

Manufacturers, if they want to survive anyway, could care less about the car guys of my generation (50's); we represent a diminishing reserve of future sales. The young generation of car guys have in general limited education and will never get the kind of wage needed to buy new cars like their factory-working fathers did. Their market interest is now college students and early career graduates, which is in the USA, ~60% female - a group not known for interest in performace cars.

Among college-track males, I can also attest to their almost total disinterest in such things. My son and his 19 yo buds assume cars run, which the always do these days, so what's the point of understanding why. Their only requirement in addition is that it have an I-Pod adapter.

This hints at another problem with the performance market is that ordinary cars have become very good. To keep any sort of difference at all gets silly. My 1984 GTI of 90 hp, which got rave reviews in the press, is now a 2011 GTI of 200 hp, which gets complaints comparing it to the 305 hp WRX. This horsepower race is down a dead-end road.

The plus for Mazda in all this is that "zoom-zoom" works for them, largely because they don't have to sell a bazillion cars to make a profit. They work it at a price point that is achievable for a wide audience without having to compete with the established bling players. If you compare Mazda to BMW of the 1970's, a 16x done very right, may move them along a path similar to BMW. The whole sky-engine program does this. Look into their take on the diesel - it's pure genius. Mazda's manufacturing processes are unmatched in the world. (Now if they could do something about the lousy dealer network and advertising).

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

HiFlite,

You have the best expressed views on this topic in here (In that they resemble mine ).

I would add that, what Mazda did with the MX5 on 89 is what they can do with sports cars in general. They can be the only manufacturer of affordable 'pure' sports cars and right on time when others quit trying (Give up).

I still believe there's room for two rotary cars and that it would be more profitable as well. I love the concept and execution of the RX8 (For the most part) but some enthusiasts WILL NOT buy a 4 door.

As far as the sports car thing goes, it's a kind of cultish thing with indoctrination and the youth can be won over as well.

Paul.

ASH8

What new Car today is not Fugly!!..I am talking 2010-11 MY on-wards..
They have had even more sheet metal/paint added, from the front, road to top of hood is even LaRgEr, rear trunks the same...because...pedestrian and passenger safety regulations.

I would hate to be a car designer Today, you don't have the "freedom".
Instead you have this HUGE Square Block of Cheese on wheels with the sharp edges taken off, as for the front/rear/side of car, how do you not make them look ugly?

Am I the ONLY one who sees what is going on here?

WHY are WE allowing this to continue..

YES the Shinari looks fantastic, but how much of it will remain.

manny074@live.com

I am wondering if and when this new sky engine comes out would I be able to install it on my 04 rx8

Nd4SpdSe

Those 2 points I totally agree with. Wages are going down and the cost of livingis going up. It's funny, the FD Rx-7 was a C$70'000 car back in the early 90's and look at how many there are. Also, the standards for most people have lowered nowadays. Nobody really wants anything nice or high end, they just want what's "good enough". That Ipod comment is a perfect example. People used to have dedicated systems and rooms to enjoy good music and nice sound systems in their car...now it's about Mp3 and their portability. I cringe at people using their camera on their cell phones (mind you there are some pretty good ones now, if you spend the money) and even worse the video camera feature on their cell phones, which just lookes like pixelated blurring video to me.

Yes and no, a part of the affordable sportscar is the $30'000 market. The Genesis vs V6 Camaro. The Speed3, WRX, Civic SI, Caliber SRT4 (gone), Cobalt SS, Lancer Ralliart The Rx-8 is outside of that market and the rotary scares people, especially when people are obsessed with Hp and Tq numbers, and what they perceive as paying more for less. The Miata fits in there, but it less "practical" and has "only" 167hp.

So it depends on who Mazda markets their rotary sports cars to. If they want it to sell to the younger generation, they need to put it in the $30'000 range. But right now it's put in the same price category as the 370z and the (gone) S2000 starting at C$41,995.00, not a cheap car, but still cheaper than the FD without involving inflation (which would price it against the new GTR). The Rx-8 is the "rotary for the masses", but not the "rotary for the youngins".

ASH8

Don't forget in the US market your Dollar $$ is sinking, so all imported cars will go up in price, there is NO other option, apart from Importing from Thailand or dare I say it China.

Or making in US?

As I said before Mazda in the US has already 'signaled' that vehicle models will move slightly "Up Market" from a advertising and marketing point...hopefully car buyers will take the bait.

Mazda and others have to because of the rising cost of importing, "inflation" is another issue again, Australia went through this a few decades ago.

Spin9k

^ here in the US we don't have any inflation (the gov says so!)

..just too bad everyones salary doesn't move "upmarket" as fast as the dollar moves down in value

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

I remember the death of the muscle car era. At that time it was emissions that killed the market.
Now it seems to be gas mileage, emissions again and high cost government required car insurance.
If it wasnt for the car insurance part there would be more buyers. But, that is a different subject entirely.
The muscle car died out. Time pasted--performance cars returned. This cycle will continue.
I sure wish I had kept my built big block 1955 chevy! And my 1969 corvette.
Damn---you live and learn.
OD

Razz1

Actually the musle car issue died because the liberals thought they were too dangerous. That peopledidn't need the HP.

So they increased the insurance rates so you couldn't afford one.

I rember the day when you could get any musle car for cheap but insurance would kill you.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)