Brekyrself

Exactly this! Can't beat buying a slightly used RX8 and having a fair amount of money left over or significantly less in monthly payments vs the FRS/BRZ... More $$$ for goodies

77mjd

They should have also compared the paint quality on the 3 cars. That would have been a huge strike against the BRZ. I've seen a few different pics of 2-3 month old BRZs with the entire front end dinged and chipped to hell already.

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

^^^This x2

Probably doesn't work... Engine Dyno @flywheel would be best way to figure out power, every chassis dyno is a little different.

Stock, healthy 8's should be putting 180-190whp without tune... Add some bolt-ons and add a Cobb AP and it shouldn't be hard to to hit 190whp, with it maxing out around 205whp with factory built engine.

With a good reliable rebuild from a reputable engine builder, one should be putting down anywhere from 205-215whp, maybe 220whp with a solid build if you're lucky...

The Boxer engine thats in the FT86/FRS/BRZ is similar to the Renesis in the fact that it has come virtually maxed out from the factory... Do all the bolt-ons you can and I doubt one will see 190whp, and if you are lucky, 200whp in a BRZ/FRS. Unless theres some miracle when someone tunes one, I personally don't see one finding 28-38whp in that engine w/ bolt-ons...

I was @ Cobb in Plano when they took both the FRS/BRZ in for side-by-side dyno testing...
I forget which one put down more but I do know that one put down 162whp, and the other was around 165whp stock.


The 8 is going to be a little faster when all is said and through... A couple of my friends (both), just got FRS'. Ive driven an FRS a few times, and although they do handle very well, its not an 8. The 8's powerband is stronger and revs easier. Its a little more refined, has more room. My 300W Bose on my GT sounds superior to the Bass-Heavy Pioneer unit that Scion tends to favor, and its 8 years older. The RX8 looks better, and costs less... What more do you want in a car? A good 8 will set you back $15k, $10K less than a base FRS and you can mod a little...

Jay86

FR-S was too small for me as well, my legs are too long to fit comfortably in it. I'm kinda glad that the lack of room has led me back to the RX8 though, stock for stock I can't imagine the FR-S being faster at a track? Especially with those awful OEM tires.

Nathan Atkins

Mine puts out 175 so I guess it's a little less than healthy.

Cobb got 162-165whp? Read my post, that's exactly what I said the frs should make at the wheels in stock form. My friend's frs has every basic breathing upgrade from tb forward and header back and I conservatively said he made 10hp from it.

I got my 8 for considerably less than the prices you quoted(about 12k two and a half years ago), we bought my wife's brz for msrp as soon as it was available. Ergonomics and preferences aside, they end up costing us roughly the same month to month since I use 500 dollars more than her in fuel a month to cover roughly the same distance.

My point of my original post was that having owned both cars and having autocrossed both cars, the 8 is more practical as a family runabout, it's fuel economy is unforgivable, and when on equal tires(the first mod any autocrosser makes) the brz/frs are faster and more fun. In fact, I took the wife's car to autocross on the factory tires and posted a similar time to my 8 on star specs.

Bottom line, the frs/brz are better drivers cars than the already excellent 8, which is compromised by its weight and low power which in the real world isn't appreciably more than the twins stock to stock. So if ergonomics and preference outweighs the fuel consumption for you, then get/stay with an 8, otherwise the twins are a worthy successor. And approx. the same cost(for my mileage needs anyway) month to month, for two cars separated by 8 years.

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

I knew you were starting to turn to the dark side...



...but seriously seeing the FRS/BRZ's at autocross every week it's impossible to deny that they are more capable on the track. Across varying skill/mod levels they still maintain the advantage. I've never driven one so I can't attest to how fun they are, but if I had to replace my 8 with another comparable car there is no questions it would be one of the twins.

Nathan Atkins

If you'd like to try Allison's I can bring it to the next event you can make it to and you can have a go, I still prefer my 8 to her brz in general, but it's going to get tougher to justify as time goes on.

Oh and the diff swap has brought the difference in fuel cost back down to 400/month rather than 500/month that's downright acceptable

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

I might take you up on that... Wow the diff makes that much of a difference huh? Does the car feel noticeably slower? Glad you are saving more on fuel at least.

Nathan Atkins

It does feel slower, but it's a modest change, now also bear in mind I was saying the difference has changed from 500 to 400 as compared to the brz over equal distance. That is I'm now spending about 900 a month in fuel compared to 1000 a month in fuel which are 400 and 500 respectively more than my wife in the brz covering similar distances. Her car driven delicately returns 38-39 mpg on the interstate, mine returns now about 19 mpg, up from my 17 before the swap, so it saves me about 25 gallons or so a month, so $100.

Even with trading in the 8, $400 a month isn't quite enough to cover the payments on another brz. And I love my car enough to be willing to literally burn away $400 a month to have it

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

Wow. That is a lot for gas... especially to me as I probably spend $50-100 a month on gas(more now that I have been doing autocross, but still)... lol. I am very fortunate to be able to walk to work though, so I only drive my 8 a few times a week. I always tell people it's more like my "fun" car even though it's the only vehicle I have.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

The rx8 is less reliable than a meth addict. And I think I am greatly understating the lack of reliability of the rx8 by saying that. For that reason I have to say it is by far and undeniably the absolute worst daily driver car to have ever been built. Mine again refuses to start, this time I believe it to be electrical issues. Had I never purchased this car I could probably have owned a house in the Hamptons and a Gulf Stream jet. This car has caused me that much issues. I would sooner recommend suicide than an rx8. I have never felt so much hatred to a car in my life. I have been extremely meticulous in its care and maintenance and despite that it has **** out on me for the second time in a total of 10,000 miles. And with my dealings with Mazda, they are the scum of the auto industry (at least Mazda North America on the west coast, I can't speak for Japan). My friend blew his 370zs engine with nitrous and got it replaced no questions asked. Mine blew(in the end it turned out to be incorrectly assembled) and it was blamed on me for lack of oil (i was changing the oil every 2000 miles and topping off, and had receipts). Maybe mine was a lemon, but it is by far the worst car to have ever been built. I can not say enough negative things about it.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Everyone has their own experiences.

I imagine that the people that had their FR-S's valvetrain shatter within 300 miles probably don't have much nice to say about it either.

And I imagine that those of us that daily'ed an RX-8 for 5+ years just fine won't agree with you. I was only stranded once in 5.5 years and 113,000 miles, when my worn clutch shattered. I spent less on repairs and had less down time than I had with my previous Corolla.

It's all a matter of individual experience and perspective.


After test driving a BRZ though, I wouldn't be able to daily one. The engine sounds terrible and the seats don't fit me at all.

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

Another satisfied customer... Did you buy the car new?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Boo hoo, you didn't research the car before buying it and are now regretting it. You have no one to blame but yourself.

I just don't get guys like you, you buy a nearly 10 year old rotary sports car (you likely bought an 04' or 05') with known engine issues, that may or may not have been well maintained, and then bitch when it's not as reliable as a Civic.

And your buddy got lucky, if Nissan was aware of the nitrous use the dealer would be paying them back for the warranty work. Dealers are 99% independently owned, some suck and some are good, that is not specific to Mazda.

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

I did buy an 04, but I purchased the one I did only because the dealer had replaced the engine only 300 miles earlier. I thought a new engine from Mazda would be a good thing. Boy was I wrong. I had a 123k miles on a 350z before that car met an unfortunate end, and I hadn't a single problem with the car during the entire ownership, and that car was bought new. Maybe I just got unlucky with mine, but I did a bit of research on the car and every bad thing that could happen did happen.

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

How many miles on the car when you bought it? Also if you had researched it you probably would have known a "new engine" from mazda isn't really a new engine.

When you buy a car with 50k, 75k, or 100k miles on it you are purchasing whatever the driving and care habits of those previous owners were. And as with any car that could be anything from fantastic to abysmal. How many owners did your car have before you got to it?

dizenman

iTrader: (2)

I was the second owner. I was given all service records and it was well maintained. On appearances this would have been an ideal car to buy, unfortunately things didn't work out like that. Maybe the dealer that replaced the engine did a poor job of reassembly which led to many problems. Many bolts were loose when the engine was being removed.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I knew it. And Bladeiai, hit the nail on the head.

Nathan Atkins

Wow that's a lot of misplaced scathing hatred, go buy something with a warranty man, then you won't have that problem

timmytriangles

I actually posted it on my page awhile ago. Far review i guess

WTBRotary!

iTrader: (6)

Im saying that if you had a healthy engine around 190-200hp your mind would change. My new engine should be above 200whp, pretty solid, and an FRS shouldn't be a problem. You are comparing a older car with a newer car with a new engine. Rebuild your engine and I think you would feel a difference.

bladeiai

iTrader: (1)

200whp on a stock engine?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's happened on a couple of dyno days and made some people sad, and high 190's quite a few times. But of course comparing different dyno numbers on different dynos is useless.

puppet623

iTrader: (1)

Hahah i actually went out and drove the frs today and i say it feels like the 8 but its a lot less comfortable and loud inside the cabin but damn its got alot more low end power but high end hahaha........... XD love the 8 alot and its a damn great daily for me even if its thirsty and i was the dumb one that bought a bad engine car and got it replaced XD but its running perfect and been almost 2.5 k miles i've got no hate for it hope rotary just keeps on improving slap a 16x in her and solve all those power problems :p i need to find a brz have see bout that softer suspension cause no one has one to try

Nathan Atkins

I've never heard of a stock rx8 making 200whp.

The newer ones feel faster in lower gear because of the stouter rear diff, but there are no appreciable changes made to power output on the newer versions.

Your new engine if stock is not likely to make 200whp and probably won't make more than 210-215bhp similar to most so called 232bhp renesis engines. You're setting yourself up for disappointment.