CarAndDriver

The sweet little Miata suffers the same problem as the RX-8 on a greater scale. Great handling with even less oomph to move it along the straightaways. The GTI and Si have it beat on the acceleration important sections.

I think GM is producing some good sport versions of their cars. The Pontiac GXP, Saturn Sky Redline and the Cobalt SS are all lightyears beyond anything they were producing five years ago.

Ford seems to have taken a serious step back beyond the Mustang GT and GT. They have left the once celebrated Focus to wither and die a sad performance death.

Toyota, like Ford, seems have an even more serious sports car gap in their portfolio. No Supra, no Celica, no MR2, nothing but the Camry engined tC. We'll see if the supposed sports cars coming out change their pedestrian sports car lineup. They seem to want to rule all auto segments--so I'm sure something is brewing.

I bet C&D asked for an STi, but just didn't get one from Subaru. Perhaps they will test it in a later roundup and include the new BMW 3 coupe, 2007 Mini Cooper S, Audi TT RS, Pontiac GXP/Saturn Sky redline, etc.

saturn

There are no words in the English language that can be combined in any order through the use of any medium that will ever change the fact that track times in and of themselves are misleading because all tracks are shaped differently with different characteristics. My only reason for even mentioning not reading the article is because without doing so I couldn't say with 100% certainty that C&D is biased towards the 350Z as Motortrend clearly is.

My point is that the Evo, 350Z, and RX-8 all have very different characteristics in terms of how the power is delivered throughout the powerband. You can likely create a track where each of them will win or at least finish much closer together. Anyone who sees the track times as posted in the first post without seeing the layout of the track can't make any estimation about the cars whatsoever.

You need to read my post before making statements that have nothing to do with what I said.

murix

So basically, you still have not read the article. It shows. If you did, you would understand the data given goes beyond the final lap time and makes this test both interesting and relevant in understanding both the strengths and weaknesses of various cars tested. The long track format makes complete sense to meet their goals.

The 350Z was nowhere the fastest car anyway. Mazda dropped the ball on the car they sent too if they sent a higher content (heavier) model, which it looks like they did based on price.

murix

Also note, the high revving, underpowered, lightweight elise beat out all its competition in its class. To me, that throws your argument of favorable tracks under the bus.

saturn

I see you still haven't read my post. It shows. This is a waste of time. I don't feel like talking to you anymore.

Rx-8 is teh rulz0rz in tha twi$ti3s!!!11!!

Ike

Looks like the brakepads and the heat are what kept the Evo from showing better. In a recent comparo the Evo topped the Cayman S around a road course so I would have expected it to be pretty close to the Cayman S. But, on this given day the Z was faster, it doesn't make sense, it just is.

murix

Have you ever been to a track? Do you even own an 8?

Rosko350z

I just read my Car and Driver, then logged onto find this thread. Great. I was pretty impressed with how the RX8 did, and of course, elated that the effin Z finally won some type of performance comparison.

There's been a lot of complaining about the track. They indicated that they wanted to find a track that exhibited as many different types of track elements as possible and that VIR seemed like the best version the US has since we don't have the Nordschleiffe. I know this might sound insane to non-racing fans, but long straights are part of any track that's worth a crap. It looks to me that they want to mimic the Top Gear test track, which is fantastic in my opinion. They say all the performance cars that come their way will be put through its paces on this same track. However, I really wish they would use the same tire for every car tested. You can't over consider tire choice. The temperature at the time of the best lap would be another great stat to peruse.

I can't believe the disrespect for the Z. All I ever hear from anyone is what a slow fat piece of **** it is, Japanese Mustang and all that. I mean ... it beat an Evo! Yay! The underdog won the fight! Surely you guys can empathize with that.

I also would've enjoyed seeing the time for a STi and S2000. Maybe one day in the future.

Price? Can you get a Track Z for under 30k? If you're a good negotiator, well, maybe 31k. And for the record, you can buy a base Z for around 26.

Oh, and the Z has gotten heavier over the years, not lighter, as someone suggested. They give a weight of 3300 or so. In '03 they weighed less than 3200.

"A modified XXXXXX would've ... "

Save it. That argument is so stupid, it always reminds me I'm having discussions with people who are probably half my age, wear a visor diagnally and upside down, and say things like, "Wait til VTEC kicks in, YO!"

saturn

Yeah, seems like the Z does get quite a bit of animosity especially on this forum. This is mostly due to the fact that most people take anything Jeremy Clarkson says as fact (especially when it makes the RX-8 look good). Unfortunately, he fails to mention that he received a prototype model and the next year Top Gear voted the 350Z car of the year.

Even so, I'm still with Ike on this one. I really don't get how the 350Z bests the Evo on any normal track on any day under any conditions. I've just seen too many comparisons that say the opposite.

murix

Do you just make this stuff up as you go?

I would like some links on both above statements.

1. Most RX8forum members, of the 28,746, taking Clarkson as fact.

2. Top Gear had a prototype model.

Driving Dynamics. Driver. Temperature. Variations in stock cars. Alignment. Humidity. Elevation changes. Fuel.

I believe Ike said "Looks like the brakepads and the heat are what kept the Evo from showing better." Might be my first guess, since that was mentioned in the article.

So I take it you have not been to the track or read the article?

murix

As an overall package and based on their target audience, I would say Nissan got it right. The next version with the latest update to the VQ35 should prove even more interesting as long as they can keep the weight in check. That is really my biggest beef with the Z and obviously more of a personal preference than a hindrance to total performance.

Paul_in_DC

It doesn't surprise me that the Z beat the 8 at VIR. The longer straights are to the Z's advantage there. At the other end of the spectrum, in SCCA Autocross the 8 dominated B-Stock while the Z was one of the "also rans." I'd be interested to see how the two would compare at a track like Summit Point/Shenandoah, which is much tighter than VIR. I'd wager that the 8's better cornering would make the difference there.

Deslock

Thanks for the scans. Nice article, though its credibility is in question given Paul_in_DC's comments about the RX8's top speed being so low.
While its true that the EVO is based on an economy platform and with that comes inherent disadvantages, it's also true that every production car has compromises. The EVO has proven itself to be an excellent track car and you shouldn't dismiss it (I'm surprised it didn't win its class).

Nice to see the RX8 do so well in the corners, especially in the uphill "Sector Two".

shaunv74

Nice article. I'm glad to see that they will start including these types of track comparisions more often. I think it's a much better way to look at a car's overall capabilities rather than just skidpad, dyno, 0-60 tests.

poweredbyboredom

Hey guys I also drive a 350Z and i understand the surprise at it's beating the evo.

I think the surprise is due to the fact that nissan upgraded the cars for the 06 model year, the biggest improvement being the tires. In past magazine comparisons the Z was always trailing the evo, due to the fact that it was massively undertired. I think in the original car and driver review it only pulled something like .87 lateral G's on the skidpad vs .90 and above for the evo and rx-8. With better tires and about 15 more horsepower than previous models, the Z is now faster around this particular track.

Back to the RX-8 though, i think it's awsome that it beat the mustang with something like 1/2 the lb/ft of torque, even on a track that features long straightaways.

Beer Goggles

Just to clear up a few things about the Z (I have a TT350)

1. There really is no diffence in the car from Base to the "Track" in terms of suspension or engine at this point. In the past years the track was the first to get the 300hp engine (less TQ) but all the 6MTs now have that.
2. Suspension is the same in every car
3. Tranny the same
4. The "Track" model is just a options package. It's main difference is that it comes with Brembo brakes and forged wheels. It also has the "aero" package which is available on every Z and really only is a chin spoiler that helps create "zero" lift.

The Z is a really nice car, and shown that it really shines on a big track. I test drove an RX8 and liked it's nimble handling, but it reallly lacks in the power department, and most will trade a little light footedness for power...which shows why you'd want it on a track–makes you go fast.

It is nice to see that the RX8 handles corners well can has high corner speed, but in reality when it comes to an overall time, that's still not the most desirable characteristic and sort of like getting a 11th place ribbon in horseshoes.

I think there were some key cars missing and some odd choices in the group, with the EVO/Z/X8 being the only ones in the same class. The S2000, Solstice GXP (and Saturn) and maybe a few others should have been there.

poweredbyboredom

The base Z has no LSD.

Okay enough hijacking of this RX-8 thread.

spork

I totally agree with that. Be intersting to see the S2K, the STi, the Mazdaspeed 6, and the Mitsu Eclipse in the comparo too. I have to admit though that I thought the LL1 would've gone: Evo, 350Z, RX-8. I thought it would've been the Evo as a clear winner, the 350Z as the clear second, and the RX-8 as the clear third. Rather than The Z winning, the Evo coming in second, and the RX-8 as a distant third but barely beating out the Cobalt SS.

The Z does get a lot of hate here though, which I think is kinda dumb because it's a very nice car.

TomAssBender

i always try to get Z drivers to play with me on the highway, pretty unsuccessfully, i might add.

as for the article. i didnt buy this car to take it to the track or because of its XX stat. So i am pretty psyched to see that I own a car that did so well?

Ike

Why, so you can get your *** beat?

MTLbroker

Wonder why they didn't throw in the mazdaspeed version of the 8?

SlowLude

Very ouch.

TomAssBender

No, so I can get someone who I think would have a similar mentality towards spirited driving. But they usually just sit there and ignore me, probably too high and mighty to acknowledge a measly RX-8 as I zoom by them on 95. meh

icyur2

To each his own..but, as everyone knows, a TRACK Z MSRP is roughly 36K!! We are talking about 5-8K difference on the price. The track version of the Z has loads of upgrades, from brakes to suspension, etc. Granted, it has more power than the 8 without these upgrades, but if the 8 had these similar upgrades (mazdaspeed suspension, brakes, etc.), it would pull a little closer than the distant 3rd. Not saying it will beat the Z, but it should make it more interesting. So, the race to begin with is flawed in that respect. Nevertheless, it is a good view of the performance of these cars...suprised it beat the EVO, but...who cares? I ride the 8 because it is less punishing and I feel more atuned to the road than if I was in the Z..

Tirminyl

Because there isn't one.