Car and Driver Lightening Lap - RX-8 a distant third!
10-01-2006, 12:45 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by 9291150
Hell, after listening to threads on this site suggesting that GTI's/Si's/SS/etc. are as fast if not faster than an 8, I'm almost surprised the 8 beat them. 
With the Evo pulling a 3:13.5, I would have expected;
350 3:17
Mustang 3:17.5
RX8 3:18
Cobalt 3:21
Miata 3:24
SI 3:25
GTI 3:25.5
So really, I'm stunned about the speed of the 350, and surprised how slow the new Miata was. I think it was Car and Driver that track tested a 8 vs. a G35 Coupe 'brembo" and they matched times, so a 6 second difference is really surprising. Oh, and the Charger, at 425hp and a full IRS, it should have been faster.
Otherwise, no big surprises. But where was the Eclispe, S2000, MS6, MS3, Celica, Tiburon, Crossfire, SRT4, WRX, etc.
At the end of the day I always like to know the average of the fast laps (more realistic), and difference between slowest to fastest laps (gauge difficulty of car). Otherwise, it'll be cool if they add this test to each review.
With the Evo pulling a 3:13.5, I would have expected;
350 3:17
Mustang 3:17.5
RX8 3:18
Cobalt 3:21
Miata 3:24
SI 3:25
GTI 3:25.5
So really, I'm stunned about the speed of the 350, and surprised how slow the new Miata was. I think it was Car and Driver that track tested a 8 vs. a G35 Coupe 'brembo" and they matched times, so a 6 second difference is really surprising. Oh, and the Charger, at 425hp and a full IRS, it should have been faster.
Otherwise, no big surprises. But where was the Eclispe, S2000, MS6, MS3, Celica, Tiburon, Crossfire, SRT4, WRX, etc.
At the end of the day I always like to know the average of the fast laps (more realistic), and difference between slowest to fastest laps (gauge difficulty of car). Otherwise, it'll be cool if they add this test to each review.
IIRC the G35 was quicker, not by a lot, but still turned a lower laptime. So... add some HP, put bigger and better tires on, and then shave off some weight as well as all the other little tweaks they've made to the Z in the last couple years.
From watching shows like BMI it's less shocking that the Miata placed where it did, and the RX-8 for that matter... But then consider an article like this ( I wish some US car mag would do a similar yearly comparo) where the Miata (last gen) outpaced the RX-8 by a tiny bit.
10-01-2006, 01:07 AM
#53
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Originally Posted by New Yorker
"The Mazda RX-8 turned 3:19.0, 1.9 seconds quicker than the Mustang, and the two cars were as different as steak and sushi. The rotary engine lacked punch coming out of the corners, even when we freely used its 9000-rpm capability. Its maximum straightaway speed was only 116.4 mph—2.9 mph below the Mustang's and even slower than the Cobalt SS's. On the other hand, the RX-8's taut suspension provided great body control and excellent cornering balance. Its brakes were powerful and fade-free. It turned in with sharp precision, and you could use power to rotate the car toward a corner apex. The sector times show how much the RX-8 liked the corners."
10-01-2006, 01:08 AM
#54
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Originally Posted by Paul_in_DC
I did the Grand Course (4.2 mi) this past summer in my GT. Their top speed of only 116 puzzles me. I did 120+, and I don't have the experience of C&D's drivers.
10-01-2006, 02:43 PM
#55
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I was actually quite surprised that the Z beat the evo too, and surprised that the 8 beat the GT. The track edition Z actually has a great suspension setup, but still..
I wish they would've run the MSP3 in there too.
I wish they would've run the MSP3 in there too.
10-01-2006, 04:22 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Ike
Are you going by your speedo?
But yes, I was, and yes, I've checked its calibration. And I wasn't even the fastest 8 there that day - I can't remember exactly, but I think one nudged 130 (though I don't think he was pure stock, at least intake and catback upgrades).
10-01-2006, 08:50 PM
#58
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hey guys...i've got this article scanned already. Would it be a copyright infringement or any other type of legal issue to post it up for public viewing for those of u that wanna read it?
Just wonderin before i do so.
Just wonderin before i do so.
10-01-2006, 09:22 PM
#59
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I have to agree with Paul about top speed on the back straight at VIR. I obtained top speed of 125 on several laps of the grand course. I can see where the 350z and EVO can shine at VIR on the three straights runs, front, back, and climbing esses.
10-01-2006, 09:36 PM
#60
Are you guys talking stock?
Paul has: Mods: Tokico D-Spec shocks, Hawk Performance Ceramic pads, Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 225/40-18,
Can't compare that to stock.
Faster out of the corners means faster straightaway times.
Paul has: Mods: Tokico D-Spec shocks, Hawk Performance Ceramic pads, Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 225/40-18,
Can't compare that to stock.
Faster out of the corners means faster straightaway times.
10-01-2006, 10:42 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by Stavesacre21
hey guys...i've got this article scanned already. Would it be a copyright infringement or any other type of legal issue to post it up for public viewing for those of u that wanna read it?
Just wonderin before i do so.
Just wonderin before i do so.
10-01-2006, 11:16 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Stavesacre21
hey guys...i've got this article scanned already. Would it be a copyright infringement or any other type of legal issue to post it up for public viewing for those of u that wanna read it?
Just wonderin before i do so.
Just wonderin before i do so.
10-02-2006, 08:55 AM
#65
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As promised...here's the article!
After you click on each thumbnail, you need to go to the top right corner and click on full size to make it readable. Sorry it's so big and blurry...best I could do!
After you click on each thumbnail, you need to go to the top right corner and click on full size to make it readable. Sorry it's so big and blurry...best I could do!
10-02-2006, 10:33 AM
#66
RX8 and a Truk....
Funny how some of the replies here saying "Well, I just like driving my rx8" are by some of the same people who, when talking about another car - such as a Colbalt SS - would say "Oh yeah? But on the TRACK the RX8 pwn3s!!"
I think the RX8 did HORRIBLE - if the RX8 is the car people think it is, it should have done better. Course - this test was a very good example of how SOME cars aren't built for some tracks.
I think the RX8 did HORRIBLE - if the RX8 is the car people think it is, it should have done better. Course - this test was a very good example of how SOME cars aren't built for some tracks.
10-02-2006, 11:25 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by CarAndDriver
The RX-8 did pretty good considering. I'm not surprised the EVO and Z whooped the 8. The horsepower advantage magnifies on the straights. Thank goodness the 8 is great in the corners. The Mustang GT performed worse than a Cobalt SS--must be that beam rear axle. Not testing the S2000 is really a bad oversight. I wonder if they could not get one from someone. I think it most likely would have slotted in the top 3.
I was also surprised at the RX-8's showing. I suppose as some mentioned that it's the long track thing... straights not being the 8's strength. I was again surprised at the Z taking the EVO... that is a total WTF!
10-02-2006, 11:28 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by Ike
Interesting, I wonder if they got a doggy Evo and a strong Z. Is there any mention of weather conditions in the article? Also, the peak speed of the Stang being so much lower than the Z is odd. I guess you can chalk that one up to exit speed.
10-02-2006, 11:32 AM
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I think this is a great test, though in the real world most EVO's are modified. I think the RX-8 did very well with what it has. It just tells me it is a lighter (when compared to its class) car with a great chassis, street biased stock suspension, and in need of more power. Pretty much what I knew it was when I bought it. Waiting patiently for more power options.
10-02-2006, 12:04 PM
#71
i pwn therefore i am
Without reading the article I have to believe that this track is custom tailored for cars like the Z. Long straightaways to hurt the 8 and long turns to have the Evo fall off boost. I don't really blame them or anything, but it just goes to show you how misleading track times can be.
10-02-2006, 12:33 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by murix
You need to read the article instead of making blind observations. Is it so hard to believe cars with stiffer suspensions and more power might actually perform better?
Good find and good thread.
10-02-2006, 02:31 PM
#74
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Thanks for the article scans!
I think the article just reinforces the characteristics of the RX-8 that we are all aware of.
The Mazda RX-8 is a fantastic handling car right out of the factory door whether one is a race car driver or average Joe. Unlike the 350Z, the 8 doesn't require scalpel precision and concentration.
The Achilles Heel is that the 8's sweet and smooth rotary powerplant is weak in the brute force category. It just gets dusted in the straights by the greater horsepower boys. Fortunately, the 9K redline lessens the need to shift as much thus saving precious time.
As the powerplant currently stands, the only way for the 8 to improve it's showing is to modify the suspension, tires, and lose weight. If Mazda imported the PZ UK version to the US and sent that instead, I think it would have cut the difference between second and third down.
Was the 8 tested, a Touring or GT?
I think the article just reinforces the characteristics of the RX-8 that we are all aware of.
The Mazda RX-8 is a fantastic handling car right out of the factory door whether one is a race car driver or average Joe. Unlike the 350Z, the 8 doesn't require scalpel precision and concentration.
The Achilles Heel is that the 8's sweet and smooth rotary powerplant is weak in the brute force category. It just gets dusted in the straights by the greater horsepower boys. Fortunately, the 9K redline lessens the need to shift as much thus saving precious time.
As the powerplant currently stands, the only way for the 8 to improve it's showing is to modify the suspension, tires, and lose weight. If Mazda imported the PZ UK version to the US and sent that instead, I think it would have cut the difference between second and third down.
Was the 8 tested, a Touring or GT?
10-02-2006, 02:47 PM
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Finally, just grabbed it off of a newsstand, ran back to the office and closed the door…great freak’n article, C&D rules! Love the 4.2-mile track, best way isolate strengths and weaknesses. I’ve done every track in Ontario and our longest is 2.5 miles, which seemed huge. But 4.2 miles is one fast long track, something that obviously wouldn’t benefit the 8’s times. Top Gear’s track is much lower in speed and distance, hence the more comparable times to M3’s and 350Z’s there.
Otherwise, I think the 8 did well, nothing new…great handling, brakes, balance. Considering the track, I’m still surprised it beast the 300hp Mustang, and nearly matched the 425hp Charger. I like the fact that out of the 2 sectors that they tracked minimum corner speeds, the 8 was fasted in one and tied for 6th in another (out of 17). This suggests the 8 is all about momentum, similar to my old 600cc sport-bikes. Not bad for a car that rides as well as my Passat.
Still surprised the new Miata was much slower than a GTI or Si, more surprised the Evo couldn’t challenge the LL2’s, and most surprised that the 350Z showed that well. And I gained a new respect for the Cobalt SS, that’s bang for the buck.
Oh. The 335i was tested….man that’s a nice car! They choose the 8, Mustang GT and C70T5 as comparisons, the 8 showing better braking and road-handling but of course, the BM showing better acceleration and fuel economy.
Otherwise, I think the 8 did well, nothing new…great handling, brakes, balance. Considering the track, I’m still surprised it beast the 300hp Mustang, and nearly matched the 425hp Charger. I like the fact that out of the 2 sectors that they tracked minimum corner speeds, the 8 was fasted in one and tied for 6th in another (out of 17). This suggests the 8 is all about momentum, similar to my old 600cc sport-bikes. Not bad for a car that rides as well as my Passat.
Still surprised the new Miata was much slower than a GTI or Si, more surprised the Evo couldn’t challenge the LL2’s, and most surprised that the 350Z showed that well. And I gained a new respect for the Cobalt SS, that’s bang for the buck.
Oh. The 335i was tested….man that’s a nice car! They choose the 8, Mustang GT and C70T5 as comparisons, the 8 showing better braking and road-handling but of course, the BM showing better acceleration and fuel economy.