rotaryWizard

wish this was on the current rx8. I should've have waited a little more till the this came out . oh well, no regrets now.

Renesis_8

hydrogen, aluminum, shape of combustion chamber, 13B, 20B, 15B, 16B, direct injection, etc...

The 13B housings were invented many years ago, perhaps they now have the computing power and resources to design better/ more efficient shape of the epitrochord? either for a 2-rotor or a 3-rotor design. I know the current design had gone through a lot, but it is still a possibility.
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DarkBrew

Using ceramic technology they can make the rotary very efficient; but will they do it?

tjbourgoyne

I thought it was a miracle the 8 was even developed. Now that they have the momentum and boosted overall sales I can see Mazda doing something amazing for sure but I would like to know how much is their R&D budget as opposed to when the 8 was being brainstormed.

Design1stCode2nd

So a clean sheet design in 2010 means that it would be 2013 before I consider buying one. Another 3 years without an upgrade is too long unless they introduce another sportscar, aka Kabura.

rotary crazy

Its got to be a lot larger, since the renesis was desing by a small group of people with very limited funds if any, most of theyr work was free in theyr spare time, and remember that the renesis is a evolution of the engine in the rx-01, thats a 12 year old desing

tjbourgoyne

I'm guessing here, but I'd say it's 10 fold of what they had. That would allow
them to test ideas that never made it to the table and Ford would give them a bigger cushion. No reason why they can't make a car better than the 8 by 2010.

rotary crazy

one thing that has to be clear to people is that the next rx-8 or any rx future vehicle its not going to be in any HP war, we may see some power upgrades like 25% or so, but most improvement will come from a lighter better handling car, better fuel economy, and things like that

bcmzr23

Maybe no horsepower war (GT-R, Shelby, Z06, M3, etc.) but maybe they will not have too by using lighter chassis materials and developments like they previously said . Though the current chassis is perfect, compliant and agile, And I'm sure given the low HP numbers as compared to the competition at the time, Mazda will give enough HP increase and decrease in weight that it will still be competitive and loved as it is now.

Aipex8

iTrader: (1)

This story popped up again today on leftlanenews.com:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/mazda-st...is-engine.html

shaunv74

^^Wow. Talk about a heated discussion. I thought this forum got bad..

fbdevil

It was an entertaining read....

New Yorker

One good thing about the development of the new rotary, whatever it turns out to be, is that computer processors and software are far more powerful today than they were when the Renesis was developed. So… if Mazda is budgeting more $$$ for rotary R&D, great—but even if they're not spending a lot more, with state-of-the-art computers and software, I would imagine that $500,000 of R&D today will go much further than it would've 12 years ago. We'll be getting a lot more R&D bang for the buck, no?

T-von

Well IMO direct injection will only work if Mazda installs 2 injectors in each housing for the fuel needed to increase the hp. I wouldn't see a single injector working since it alone would have to support the engine from idle to red line while not dumping in too much fuel in the low rpms to keep the emissions low. I could be wrong though!


Clean sheet? I don't see Mazda revamping too much with the design. Retooling is very expensive and I'm sure Ford is keeping a close eye on added cost. Far too many Renesis engines were replaced under warranty over the Rx8's lifespan simply due to excessive carbon build-up. If Mazda can find a way to greatly reduce the engines excessive carbon building and spark plug fowling problem, then they will be making tremendous strides in terms of reliability. They could easily ceramic coat the rotor faces for carbon reduction and also add ceramic apex seals. These seals wouldn't be nearly as expensive in the hi volume production vehicle as they are in the aftermarket.


We already know upping the compression is out based on Mazda's previous experiments with the bowl area of the rotors. Mazda could however easily make a 3 rotor renesis based off the 10A rotors. The smaller combustion chambers would be better for fuel burn. Plus you would still have a high redline with the light rotating assembly

My guess is Mazda will mainly improve the intake for better flow. This could also include relocation of certain intake ports. The current Renesis engine itself is capable of more power, just not with the current intake manifold. The intake manifold is why you guys keep hitting that hp brick wall with all your NA mods. I have a pretty good guess what Mazda could do.

rotary crazy

^^please chare with us what you belive can improve the renesis, thats what we are here for

Red Devil

Care to elaborate?

T-von

Sure. The aux ports for the 5th and 6th port runner opening could be placed in a better postion for better air flow. Currently they join together and are positioned at the bottom of the main runner and have a 90degree angle to where the air has to change direction and enter the aux ports. Anyone ever see the Renesis intake in all it's glory? That sharp angle causes turbulance and a slight flow reduction. Smoothing out the aux port opening runner will improve power. I can't say exactly how much until I experiment with a renesis manifold myself.

That's just one small idea, I have a couple more but I'm not willing to let those out of the bag just yet. They have patent possiblilities. When I get done testing the custom intake set-up I'm currently engineering for my 20b Fd project, then I'll share the other possiblities. I should have results later this year (well before 2010).

rotarygod

Actually the Renesis manifold is quite nicely designed. Air does not always behave as you think it will just by looking at it's path. It's funny stuff. It will be very hard to improve upon it and not seriously affect another area negatively. it flows enough air for 9500 rpm just fine. Yes it's possible to design a manifold that will make more power. However I challenge anyone to make a better design that makes more power and loses power nowhere to the stock one. I assure you, the manifold is not the reason that the engine is hitting a "brick wall" when it comes to power. Speedsoure is getting 260 fwhp with it so it's obviously not the problem.

The 5th and 6th ports are located in an area that is just fine. That 90 degree turn is actually quite easy on the air so that's not that big of a concern. I do wish the runners were equal length between front and back but the fact that they join each other to take care of the dynamic supercharging effect is actually more important and the reason why it works. It's not to say it wouldn't be better if the runners were equal length but you might only gain a horsepower or two from it.

The biggest issue holding people back from making more power is that they have a 2.6 liter engine that has no forced induction. Unlike previous rotaries, this engine doesn't have as long a way to go from being 100% volumetrically efficient as the older engines did. I see people make statements about it but the fact of the matter is that the current engine makes about 75 more horsepower than the last naturally aspirated rotary of the same size and it does it cleaner and with higher fuel efficiency. The reason the gas mileage doesn't seem to be better is because the car is over 300 lbs heavier which pretty much equalizes the mileage ratings out. You can improve the engine. You can improve anything. The closer you get to the most you can get from that size, the harder each hp is to obtain. The intake manifold is the last thing you need to worry about.

T-von

Don't get me wrong Rg I do feel the manifold is well designed especially when compared to the 1st and 2nd gen Rx7 versions, but 260fwhp isn't a huge leap either. I personally feel with the right intake and even stock ports the Renesis can make even more power without sacrificing emissions and drivability. I accept your challenge.

rotarygod

If you do it, more power to you! I hope you do! Don't ever think I discourage trying things. More people need to.

T-von

Hey all I car about is the further development of our beloved rotary engine.

Peace!

SSJ 909

I said it many moons ago and i'll say it again...

For the rx8 to be taken as a serious threat in the mkt place it needs to get around
30 mpg, a reduction in weight by atleast 200 lb's, an extra 30-40 hp, and No Flooding issues!
If they can achieve this for their new 2010 model, they will see some great sales.

AggieLuke

Which car(s) do that now that it would be competing against? It would be awesome if that happens, but that seems to be an incredibly tall order...

dillsrotary

30 mpg is crazy, corolla's barely achieve that. no flooding will have to be computer controlled (the engine not letting itself shut off cold.) 30-40 hp is possible, as is the weight.

ruru

I love this thread....I still do not want them to give any new rotary [modified or all new] the rx-7 moniker again - I think they should continue the line forward with the rx-9.

but if it is another Renesis maybe just next gen rx-8 it.