ml2316

results are interesting

<a href="http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB25&Number=67426638&page =0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1">thread at freshalloy.com</a>

Digisan

Good link, thanks for the info.

Winning

this will make it up

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthrea...hreadid=107961

There is now way we want our car to be compared with ugly G35 coupe skyline. 350Z yes, but skyline coupe, no way!!

The coupe will not even come to most part of the world other than USA, it simply will not sell. Only 350Z is the closest to RX8 in terms of handling and cool factor. One other thing to remember too, I think Japanese RX8 is not using the sport suspension that is standard in UK, Australia and maybe USA. Maybe thats is why the roll is pretty bad. Also with Best Motoring, the good and senior driver like Motoharu Kurosawa which is most likely to win if you give him any car, is sponsored by Honda. Just look at their race suit and you will know what I am talking about.

Best Motoring as cool, but they are way too biased with their NSX and S2000. Other publications around the world said that S2000 electronic steering is too awful to believe. S2000 owners said S2000 handling is fantastic, also why they buy it in the first place. On the other hand, no publication can find any fault with the Miata other than underpowered engine of course. My point is they can say anything they want, but if we like the car, so what!!! I love the look of RX8, I put my order already, if the handling is as good as the Miata I will be happy.

BRx8

the G35 is one of the best cars to compare the RX-8 with considering the 4 seating capacity of both cars and its sports car attitude...and i completely disagree with you, i think the G35 is drop dead sexy, especially in black...IMO, it's one of the best looking sports coupes on the market along with the 350Z...if it had the novelty 4 door suicides and wasn't priced so much, i'd definitely get one

and even now that ppl have actually raced the cars on track, enthusiasts still can't believe that the RX-8 isn't God's gift to man...still denying that the RX-8 isn't the best car and should be able to beat any car any day...unfortunately that's not the case...i wish it were but it's not...

Skyline Maniac

I typed these on the other thread in Media section.... but I'll do alittle cut and paste in case members missed it.

Here is the summary of teh video. Please don't flame me for the content, I just tried to translate the video the best I can.

RX-8 performed marginal compared to the other cars. The test was in several segments:

Twisty mountain circuit of Gunma:
Cosmos, original RX-7, FD, and RX-8. They commented the RX-8 handled well, but rolls a lot and it's not powerful when coming out of corners. Fun to drive though, which is important.

Accleration: [RX-8 vs G35C vs BMW 330] They seemed to have dropped the clutch on the RX-8 around 6500 rpm or so. The 0-400m acceleration was slower than G35 and BMW 330 SMG as expected. G35C came out on top. They mentioned the BMW engine was smooth, G35C engine was impressively powerful and had loads of torque, RX-8 engine was rev happy but underpowered in comparison.

High speed (100mph+) slalom test: RX-8 performed pretty well. There was some roll, but excellent weight distribution helps the RX-8 stay stable. The G35C was the best in bunch when it comes to high speed manuvers, grip and stability. which impressed the drivers. The 330 was iffy at high speed, felt unstable.

AutoX type tight course: [RX-8, 350Z, G35C, BMW330 SMG, S2000) Tight short course consist of a 270 hairpin, 120 hairpin, slalom, and tight corners. RX-8 was rated to be the 2nd most fun to drive car right between S2000 and G35C. The 350Z and BMW got dogged in 'fun to drive' segment. S2000 pulled off the best time and most fun to drive honor. G35 and 350Z understeered at limit, but testers mentioned they couldn't completely defeat the VDC system unlike the Mazda and Honda. (They should have asked the Z or G forum how to do that first) Time: BMW fastest, it had no LSD, no drifting, all grip = fastest time. However, it was not a fun car to drive. G35C beat the RX-8 and 350Z on the tight course. They indicated the soft suspension of the RX-8 created too much roll around slaloms and corners. Overall they said the RX-8 was fun to drive for a 4 door.

Tsukuba Track 5 lap race: [Grid: Miata RS, RX-8, Integra R, S2000, G35C, Subaru WRX] Grid set up based on TORQUE to weight ratio to give the Miata, Integra R and RX-8 some breathing room at the start. RX-8 passed Miata and was in 1st place briefly. S2000 beat the RX-8 in acceleration, cornering, braking and handling. Then the RX-8 got passed by the WRX and G35C on the straights as well. The rolly suspension of RX-8 and the lack torque made a huge difference on the course. By the 3rd lap or so, the RX-8 was passed by the Integra (RSX w/ 220hp) coming out of a corner. The race finished with S2000 on top, followed by the G35C, Subaru WRX, Integra R, RX-8 and Miata RS was about half lap behind everyone else. Very entertaining video, the G35C driver was going nuts and drifting out of corners while everyone else was taking the proper racing line.

Overall the drivers liked the RX-8, and said it was a fun to drive car for a car that can carry 4 adults and costing almost $6000 USD less than the G35C. (in Japan anyways) They were impressed with the cornering speed of thr RX-8, which was very good consider it was using the Potenza 040 tires. (same as JDM G35C, 350Z and Integra) They also commented on the generous headroom in the backseat and the nice deep trunk in the back. (Without spare) Despite the result of the tests, the RX-8 was admired by the drivers as being a daring attempt by Mazda to bring 4 door sport cars to a new level.

Finally, they tested the 210hp automatic RX-8, said the paddle shifter is nice, but power is really lacking.

Skyline Maniac

Personally I think the G35C would look horrible with suicide doors. Also, a base G35C 6MT isn't priced too different from a similarly equipped RX-8. (I think it came out to around $1000 difference)

Winning

Well, I have to agree with you. It is not the best car, Well you can't expect M3 or 911 competition at RX8 price, are you! I love the look of it. Shame with the underpowered engine. Well, it is a good enough car until the RX7 arrive anyway. Then we start talking real track and performance car.

About the Skyline coupe, I think of it as a budget japanese MB CLK. I used to own CLK430 and man, was I dissapointed. There is no fun in it at all, as a cruiser it is fantastic, but a very boring car. My Sti is a lot more fun compare to CLK at 1/3 of the price. I never test drive an Rx8, but I did tested the 350Z, it is a good car but the engine sounds awful, can't do much with that, it is just a heavily tuned VQ maxima engine. Love the car but not impressed with the handling and engine/exhaust note. Took it to the track, with friends compare it with Sti, Int Type-r, S2000, Evo 6 and 7 man the 350Z does not dance on the tarmac as good as the others. Can't imagine the G35 coupe , but then again it is not built for track use.

Well, I am not going to take the RX8 to track anyway, that is why I say if the handling is better than MX5 or even the similar as MX5 I'll be happy. If any other car can beat RX8 or faster or whatever, so what!!!!

takahashi

You have to know there is a Type S and normal version of RX8 in Japan. The Type S is 6MT and normal version is 5MT with the 4 induction port engine that only produces ~150kW... anyone know if they have a 5MT or 6MT on the video?????
I don't know if there is any suspension changes in the normal RX8 in Jap though....
If it said RX8 not RX8 Type S in the video then I strongly suspect it is the 4IP 150kW engine with 5MT.

For the guys like me just paid their deposit - it is how I would think of the result

BRx8

not necessarily...i mean i'm not disagreeing with you, but if you look at the RX-8 and the way they designed it, you can't really tell that there are suicide doors at all...it looks pretty innocent until you actually bust open those doors...




it is a BIG shame, seriously...i mean it couldn't even keep up with the Integra?? sure, driver does play a big role, but that's an Integra! kinda disappointing but like you i don't plan on taking it to the track...

BRx8

Type S dude...the low power version wouldn't even come close to any of those cars...the Miata would prolly beat it

http://www.bestmotoring.jp/digest/BM/index.html

Skyline Maniac

I don't want to sound too harsh, but for those of you who have a deposit on the RX-8, you should watch this video before buying the RX8. The video provided a lot of insight on exactly what the RX-8 is designed to do, it's (+) and (-). You'll be better informed about the car you are about to spend $30k on.

I wasn't really expecting the RX-8 to out accelerate the G35C, but the RX should have beaten the G35C in AutoX handing, cornering and slalom with its 500 lb advantage. The RX sure as hell should have beaten the Integra on track as well. The video speaks volumes, because the G35C, 350Z, RX-8 and Integra all has the same Potenza tires in Japan. In a sense, this video is probably the most fair and unbiased video we'll get to see, knowing the drivers of BM are all professionals.

The RX-8 works well as a stylish 4 door sedan alternative, but it's not going to hang with the sport coupes or roadsters on a track or even the twisties. The power difference and lack of torque was dreadfully obvious on the straights, even when compared to the Integra w/ only 220hp and less torque.

btw: Like BRx8 said, they tested the Type S RX8 w/ sport suspension and 18" wheels. The 210hp version does not stand a chance.

Anyhow, I don't mean to discourage members from buying the RX-8. The illusion that the RX-8 is a 4 door pure sport car with a wonder engine is not quite substentiated base on what I saw on the video. Watch the video and then decide whether or not the RX-8 is right for you.

btw: I believe Best Motoring is planning on doing a test for 4 door sport sedans in the near future. They'll have the RX-8 vs TSX vs Mazda 6 and IS200 on track. It should be interesting to see if the RX-8 will come out better compared to the other 4 door mid-price sport sedans.

Winning

Just to remind you that Japanese integra type-R has over 160kw and weight about 300kg lighter than RX8. Plus it also has super stiff spring. I think even S2000 will has problem to keep up with it. The type-R even beats S2000 about more than half a lap in the previous Best Motoring. When they change the driver of the S2000 to M Kurosawa which is one of their best driver, then the S2000 beats the type-r. Even then it has a very difficult time beating the type-r.

wakeech

for you Americans, that's about 210hp (160 * 1.31) and 2200lbs.

BRx8

a quick glance into Edmunds car review shows that the American RSX has 200hp and 142lb-ft. 0-60 is rated at 6.7 seconds. i'm not sure what the difference between the Japanese RSX (Integra) and the US-spec one is but just from looking at these specs, the RX-8 should not lose to it in anyway, straight-line or AutoX...after reading about this, it kinda makes me wonder if the RX-8 is a sports car at all but a car with a sporty look...

Winning

Well, a lot!!!
To start with 0-100kmh(0-62mph) in 6 seconds, so expect 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. It has 220ps at 8000 rpm instead of 200 hp at 7400 rpm. It weigh about 200kg less, a lot stiffer suspension, brembo brakes, bigger exhaust, sway/roll bars front and back, requires 100RON for petrol, different diff I think. Acura RSX is a cruiser while the Type-R is built for race track. 17inch wheels, huge spoiler for better downforce.

The Type-R also has a lot that it doesn't have compare to RSX. Mostly the luxury extras, to keep the weight down.

I am more surprised that the RX8 got beaten by the G35C. But it is written by the fan than the G35C was driven like a maniac. So I will say the driver also play big part in the battle. Judging from the review, I jump into a conclusion that the first thing I will have to change in my RX8 is stiffer spring. So it will has less bodyroll.

eclps0

was the rx8 that they tested the low power or high power because didnt they comment on the shifter on the steering wheel? if they did no wonder why it lost, also every car mag the rx8 beat its rivals in handling auto crosses and salom. with the hi power ver the low power is very slow. No offence to buyers of the auto.

Skyline Maniac

The G35C was driven like a maniac, meaning it was not taking the best race line, overtook competitors from the outside, power slide through corners and brake later than competitors. It goes to show the G35C is a very balanced car that can be driven hard and maintain composure, all the while its VDC not completely turned off. I don't think it was much a drivers race in the July issue, the RX-8 was obviously slower than its competitors especially on the straights. (It didn't get passed slowly.... the S2000, G35C and WRX blew by the RX-8 on straights) The excess body roll was evident around corners as well.

The biggest surprise was how well the G35C performed on the track and handling test. In the May issue, the G35C was holding its own against the BMW M3 SMG and 350Z. This is the second time Best Motoring G35C has beaten the 350Z as well. Afterall, it's a Skyline, what do you expect. :D At $32k, with its performance, styling and some luxury, the G35C is really hard to beat. If you don't need a backseat for 2 full size adults in your car, the G35C is definitely worth looking at.

btw: I repeat~ The RX-8 they tested was the top of the line Type S performance model. 18" performance Potenza RE040 tires, sports suspension, 250hp 6MT, upgraded brakes, and standard fog lamps. This is the one used for all the tests I wrote about above.

They ALSO tested an automatic at the end of the video tape on a mountain road. The 210hp automatic with paddle shifter was underpowered and slow to respond like your typical automanual. If you are an driving enthusiasts, for Christ sake please stay away from the automatic RX-8. (It might be beaten by a Mazda 6)

ml2316

I don't think that anybody is arguing that g35c isn't a GREAT value, but if you can only afford 27-28k, and you need a back seat, then the rx-8 is obviously the better option, by default.

pelucidor

Very interesting... thanks for the post Skyline Maniac - but where is the video link so I can see it for myself?

I am surprised more people haven't commented on this topic yet.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

The comments made in the video go against what some of the auto mags here in the states have mentioned, particuliarly Car and Driver and Road and Track. Car and Driver picked the RX-8 over the G35C and the Mustang Cobra, despite it being the slowest of the bunch. The RX-8's handling characteristics seemed better than what the BM's video give it credit for. Road and Track seemed to appreciate the car over the 350Z and BMW 330i as an overall package. The performance numbers are confusing at best, because I've read the RX-8 goes toe to toe with the G35C in acceleration as well as considered better when it comes to handling (Road and Tracks' little side comparo of the RX-8 to the G35C).

Even with the results of this video with comparison to what all the other big names have mentioned and TESTED, I think the performance of the RX-8 is still comparable to that of the G35C. I've heard some complain about the VQ's smoothness (particuliarly Honda fans when compared to the "J" series 6 cyl.). Not to say the G35 is a bad car, I've been considering it for a while. After I see the entire video, I'll have to do a side by side comparo myself to see if it really is all that.

In the end, it's all about personal preference. I won't buy the RX-8 based on looks or the novelty of its "freestyle" doors. I want a car that will perform. I just have to believe that all things being equal, the RX-8 can run with the G35 (and definitely a freakin' RSX-R!).

rxeightr

It was only a matter of time before somebody tested the RX-8, and it fell short in comparison to the other vehicles tested. After all, most all reports up to this point have given its handling characteristics & linear power curve the highest of marks for a vehicle in this price range.

Many on this board own (or have owned) an RX-7. And they are coming back for more by their impending purchase of an RX-8. Why? Because they know the potential of the RENESIS. It takes a different mentality to run a Rotary than a piston engine. Is it possible the driver of the RX-8 did not know how to drive it?

If all the potential RX-8 owner is looking for is acceleration, there are better choices. Handling? Better choices. I am after the whole package the RX-8 gives me (and I suspect many, many others), which is a blend of performance, handling, able to carry 4 full-size adults, looks fantastic (IMO the best of all in its class, whatever class you choose to put the RX-8 in), and as Car & Driver said, has a Fun Factor of 10, surpassing the other vehicles tested.

DYT

I was disappointed at first after I read about the video. Then I read through the magazines again and realize the numbers alone never tell the whole story. It is kinda like the miata, a car that sucks on paper but universally loved by magazines and owners. There is more to a sports car than lap and 1/4 mi times, and that is the connection between the driver and the car. Looking at the fun to drive factor of 10 for the RX-8 vs 8 for the G35 in C&D, it is apparent that the extra 500 lbs on the G35 affect this connection, even though it doesn't show up in the numbers.

Having said that, I think Mazda should offer a suspension package that is a step above the current sport suspension, kinda like the R1 and R2 on the FD

P00Man

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

very interesting, in the Mags, Rx-8 comes out on top, in the vid, rx-8 comes out on bottom.....
________
PRETEEN NONUDE

Hercules

I'll say this much.

The RX-8 is out in a month.

Get in the damn car and find out for yourself. Don't be magazine junkies or video junkies... the only way to know if the car is *truly* for you is if you get into it and drive it yourself.

That said, my mind will not be made up until I drive it too. The RX-8 is great on paper, seems to be the more agile car of the group, and likely (regardless of what magazine or video says), a better handler as well.

Now that will only be proven when I get into the car and drive it.

Like I made mention a few weeks ago, when I drove the BMW Z4 2.5, it was MUCH more fun to drive than the G35 Coupe. I threw that car in the twisties and it just OBEYED. G35 Coupe is an impressive car and will be my choice should the RX-8 not be up to snuff... but please let's keep it light on these 'reviews.'

Everybody's selling something... you should sell YOURSELF the car. Don't let somebody sell it to you.

Skyline Maniac

I agree with what others have said. The RX-8 is a light fun to drive car that happens to carry 4 full size adults. The RX-8 has the spirit of Mazda Miata, and practicality of a compact 4 door sedan. The C&D article praised the fun to drive factory of the RX-8, which is reconfirmed by the BM staff in the video. C&D rated the RX8 over the G35C and Mustang for its value, handling and fun to drive factor, but C&D also confirmed the Mustang and G35C are both faster and more powerful sport cars. There is no contradiction in the reviews as some of you believe. The RX-8 trails only the S2000 and Miata in fun to drive factor in the video, which is a big accomplishment for a 4 passenger car. The BM Fun to Drive Ranking was S2000>RX-8>G35C>350Z>BMW330 SMG.

Seeing the cars in action side by side gives you a very clear picture of the advantages and disadvantages of each on the track. The 500lb difference between the G35C and RX-8 shows up in turn in and tossability tests. However, it seems the soft suspension of the RX-8, combined with the tall height and narrow width contributed to excess roll when pushed. (This was very apparent in the slalom test) Still, the RX-8 was fast around corners, it can certainly hold its own in the twisties. The S2000 looks like a demon on these switch backs and hairpins with ease. The G35C reminded me of the was fast, powerful, lots of grip, but it will power slide on command and looks very stable around corners. The RX-8 performance characteristic is more similar to the S2000, while the G35C resembles the 350Z and GT-R type. As far as engine power is concerned, there is no the RX-8 simply could not compete with the S2000, G35C, WRX, and even the Integra-R on the straights. That was dissapointing to me, because I expected the Renesis not to be left in the dust by the Honda 4 bangers.

I don't know why everyone keeps comparing the RX-8 to the G35C, since they are not in the same class. Then again, the RX-8 really doesn't belong in any specific group base on normal standards. After 5 laps, the S2000 took the checked over G35C by 1.1 second, which was very surprising. (consider the 600lb difference) On the other hand, the RX-8 finished nearly 7.7 seconds behind S2000, (appx 7 seconds behind G35C) which was dissapointing consider the RX-8 and S2000 engine have nearly identical spec, and the RX-8 being only 110lb heavier than the S2000. To be honest, I don't think the RX-8 would be considered in the same performance class as the G35C. If the RX-8 is truly a better handler than the G35C, then at least it would have beat the G on slalom, lateral grip, AutoX course, hairpins and high speed lane change test...... but it did not.

I won't argue with the fun to drive factor , because every publication, video, reviews have clearly stated the RX-8 is definitely fun to drive. You can see this on the video as well, the RX-8 is a drift-happy machine.

Anyhow, I am ripping the video as we speak. I'll try to get it compressed and partitioned by tomorrow so we can all watch the video to make up our own minds.