Lensman

Here's an interesting quote from the 'PistonHeads' site. On no account do I want to open another debate about torque or even attack the 350Z (I have one on order as well as the RX-8 - regrettably I can't KEEP both but hey!) but as the Z is always quoted as a 'torque-monster' against the Mazda I found this most amusing:

http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests...p?storyId=5549

Spoonie

I've never driven a 350z but that article sounds suspect. I guess if you are used to Race cars. All production cars will seem slow off the line. I've never heard a 350z, VTEC comparison before. If the motors do share the same characteristics why does the Infiniti G35, A car with the same motor w/Less torque, HP and more weight, is known for having good low-end Punch?

Lensman

Absolutely! That's mainly why I found it so amusing because it completely reversed the accurate stereotype of the 350Z. It's funny because it's such a mad opinion.

JTek_55

I test drove the 350Z twice and I would say that I agree and disagree with that statement. It did seem to build power as you got into higher RPM's (what car doesn't?), but I don't think I would compare it with a VTEC...

Lensman

JTek_55, did you test the Z with an eye to buying it? If so what made you go with the RX-8. I'm 95% hooked on the Mazda now but there's still that 5% looking longingly at the Nissan. Doesn't come with sat/nav over here though so if you knew anything about my navigational skills you'd see why I'll take the RX-8 for that alone.

joema230

I owned a G35 sedan, which as basically the same engine as the 350Z (now have BMW 330i) and can help answer this.

The G35/350Z superficially has very torquey feel. The throttle tip-in is pronounced -- just a little throttle angle and the car jumps forward, with no need to build revs. This probably accounts for the "torque monster" reviews.

However -- this is illusionary to a degree. As you progress to full throttle, only little more power appears. You think "I was impressed for a second, but that's it?" Then suddenly at about 4500 RPM it really pulls. I assume that's a variable valve timing zone or something, but it's a pronounced surge of power.

So the power response for a given throttle angle is very nonlinear. It has a drive by wire electronic throttle, so maybe they artificially boosted the engine response at low throttle angles. Also the power for a given RPM is nonlinear, esp at full throttle. The power doesn't build smoothly as RPMs increase -- there's a big peak at about 4500 rpm. It's not severe, and lots of people might not notice it, but to me it was very noticeable. I drove several G35s and they were all like that to a degree, although some were worse than others. Maybe it was manufacturing variation on an early production vehicle.

Years ago I had a 1980 RX-7, which strangely enough was similar to my 330i in throttle response -- very smooth and linear. Add 50% more throttle or 50% more rpm and you get 50% more power.

The G35/350Z isn't bad -- the low rpm grunt is very useful for moving through traffic. However I didn't like the nonlinear response.

-- Joe

Lensman

Thanks! 96% Mazda.

Skyline Maniac

joema, I assume you are talking about the electronic throttle in the G35/350Z series. The Nissan fly by wire throttle system is actually more linear than any other manufacturers at the moment. The gas input sensor translates into throttle opening positioning at a 1:1 ratio. No low end relaxation or high end boost similar to the system used in BMW vehicles. It takes awhile to get used to the throttle response in these cars. Due to the fact that throttle opening is 1:1, the 350Z/G35 feels almost too responsive in stop and go traffic and at low speed. At the same time, when you get up higher on the rpm range, the car doesn't feel nearly as monstrous as you imagine because the power delivery is very smooth. You can feel the punch in these cars kick in after 4000-4500rpm, and it's a noticeable yet gradual change in the characteristics of the car.... not VTec-like, more of a supercharger type sensation. The engine sounds different, loads of power coming through, and the exhaust comes to life. Feels strange, because the car feels like a luxury sedan at cruising speed, but sounds, feels and drives like a sport car when you push it.

The torque is definitly there, but you can't feel it. It's a strange sensation. I tried out my coupe with a friend's BMW 325xi once: obviously the coupe is much faster, but the 325xi 'feel' just as fast. Smooth power delivery can be deceiving. Back to the topic, V-Tec style or high revving engines like the S2000, RSX-S, and RX8, FEELS much faster than the actual data might suggest. These engines screams and the power delivery is not very linear nor smooth. You can definitely feel the kick when you are in the power band. That's a part of the formula that makes these cars fun to drive. I got a ride in a S2000 once, and that car 'feels' damn fast, even though my watch clocks the 0-60 to be in the mid-6 range. (Driver wasn't giving it all, and barely dropped the clutch)

JTek_55

Lensman: I basically had the same impression he is describing, but I could not have put it into words as well as he did. I basically was not as impressed with the feel of the car as I thought I should be. It seemed fast but lacking for some reason. BTW, want to know if I was looking as a buyer? Put it this way; my wife had the checkbook in hand with Nissan's name on it. I stopped her mid-writing to say I wanted to "think" about it for a while. After really playing things out in my head, I came to the conclusion that I would not be happy spending 35K on a car that did not completely blow me away...

73JPS

Wanna know something interesting (and no, this is NOT a joke!): that article at pistonheads.com was written by the guy who is selling ZoomZoom and me our RX8s. No kidding.

AbusiveWombat

I thought that this was interesting. Not the gain but the overall torque curve of the 350z. Seems really strong down low but is choking above 5000.

chenpin

I thought a rotary engine has very linear power delivery, much smoother than piston engines?

BenHayat

Hi Joe;

Your comment was very intresting to read. I test drove Z and G35Coupe and had the excact impression and asked (both times from the rep), about the none-linear pull and they had no idea what I'm talking about. So your percepsion of the two Nissan's car was the same as mine and I'm glad I read your post to clarify it was not my mistake.

I liked the first 2 seconds of the Z, but then as I gave more gas, the speed did not go up as the RPM went up, then at 5000 it kicked but it was too late since I was getting close to red line and I let go. So Z seems like doesn't give that jolt from 2000 to 5000 that an RSX-S or WRX gives.

I hope RX-8 has a nice linear speed as the RPM goes up.

..Ben

joema230

I was just speculating on possible reasons for the apparent non-linear throttle response in the G35. If it's physically linear (throttle angle is 1:1 to fuel injection volume), but the end result is non-linear due to overall engine characteristics, then that's what the driver feels.

I don't know if BMW's DBW throttle curve is artificially shaped or not. However the overall result is a very linear response in both throttle angle vs perceived power and rpm vs perceived power, which is different from the G35 (and I've owned both cars back-to-back). I recollect my RX-7 was more like the BMW in this regard, however it's been several years since I had it.

The G35 is a really great car and I recommend anybody buying that market segment to test drive one. However I've heard several owners describe the same throttle characteristics.

-- Joe

TJRX8

I also drove both the G35C and 350Z more than once. The Z just seemed to beefy to me. It also felt like a bigger car than I had hoped for a 2 seater, and the interior seemed cheap. I actually liked the G35C more but it still seemd cheap on the inside. It also was bigger feeling then I wanted. I am hoping the 8 feels like the sporty 3000lbs it is. Besides it looks better than both of the other cars. Not they they look bad, they look damn good just not as good ;-)

GodWhomIsMike

Personally I love the exterior of the 350Z, but it's interior I absolutely hate, it looks bland, dull, uninspired, and cheap. But the body and the engine sounds are awesome. The RX-8, I like the body, not as much as the 350Z, but I love the interior, the interior is sick, especially with the Black/Red leather combination. Then the automatic offers a paddle shifter - sweet, especially since off hand I don't know of any car below the $50K mark that has one, except the Ponatic GTP that is coming soon - but it looks the same way it looked back in 97 who wants that especially since it's a FWD! The RX-8 has better options then the Z, the BOSE system in the 8 is extremely better than the Z, I have read in many articles that the hollow plastic interior of the Z distroys the sound quality. I have also read the 8 handles a lot better than the Z. So it's basically comes down to buying a car for exterior looks and speed if you want a Z. I want a car that I will use every single day for the next 5 years - sun, rain, ice, snow - through short drives and long distance drives. I got my money going to the RX-8, the Z just doesn't offer enough to get me to get one as an everyday car.

RotaryXTypeSH

I donno if i want to get a cheap car like Z.....its interior (dash) felt like the E36 BMW's and i got a friend that has that kind of interior (very thin plastic). Which 50% of it broke in 5 years of driving under the sun of california....would u guys still want to get the new Z???:D

Lensman

Apparently the 2004 350Z (as in the first UK cars) will have a revised interior with new plastics. Whether this will improve it remains to be seen but Nissan have been listening as they've redesigned the notorious sat-nav flap too.