irresistibo

Ok, I havent been on this forum too long, infact i just joined today. Ive been reading alot of the threads and something has been bothering me, here is me venting.

Ok, the 350z seems like a great car. It has loads of power and its new. Once the novelty of the car wears out i think the car will pretty much blow. People havta realize that Nissan did not revive a cool concept, which the original Z was, instead they copied Detroit. Yeah, thats right, american cars, muscle cars no less. If you think about it, the 350Z is basically a japanese muscle car with very little flair or character.

Why is Japan copying Detroit? If you think about it, a Mustang GT will probably keep up with the 350Z, it'll probably beat it off the line too. Is it cooler because its japanese? Ford also has a limited edition Mustang that is cheaper than the Cobra, it sells for $28K and has 300+ horsepower, and alot more torque than the 350Z. Weight isnt really an issue since the 350Z is fairly bloated compared to other Japanese cars. I think theres too much hype about the car. Kudos to nissans marketing department for making a so so car into the most anticipated car in a long time. Comparisons with such cars as the SLK, S2000, audi TT, bmw 3 series are obserd, it must be compared to the Mustang of the late camaros of the world.

Unfortunately this car is going to outsell the RX-8 by leaps and bounds. Its sad fact is that most people swear that they know everything there is to know about cars, there are few true enthusiasts around. The guy that swears he knows everything will probably buy the 350Z, it fits that huge demographic perfectly. On the other hand the RX-8 might seem like the bastard son of the RX-7 and a saturn, but its and enthusiasts car, and the true car lover will probably seek out the RX-8. The market however is probably alot smaller than what everyone on this forum would like to believe.

Ok, heres my conclusion. The RX-8 is a cool idea, I love rotaries and the third gen rx7 is still my dream car, but i dont know how well the RX-8 will sell, even if i had the means, i dont think i would buy the car. Call me a pesimist, but i think the RX-8 is doomed for failure, and we'll probably never see a rotary car following the RX-8. I dont think the world is ready for the RX-8, i wish they would just make another RX-7 that would do what the 3rd gen did, give you true supercar performance at reasonable cost.

Tell me what you think

Hercules

I think I'd take a RX-8 over the RX-7... provided I could still haul *** with the 8

Hercules

Oh, and as far as the 350Z... yea it will sell a lot more than the 8, but for us few, us blessed few.. we will be in heaven.

Not to mention, the 350Z is running in the 16s in the 1/4 mile!?!?! After second gear, expect it to be all on the 8 and the Renesis. I intend to destroy some 350Zs

Sputnik

You best put your flame suit on.

I don't think that the 350Z will sell THAT well, personally. What's it got that the 300Z didn't?

I don't know if the RX8 will sell well or not either. I believe that the perception of the rotary engine will be the key, and hopefully the RX8 will be able to kill the bad perceptions out there. But regardless of how good the car is, public perception will be the key with a majority of buyers, and thus the key to it's success. And it's anyone's guess, even Nostradamus (sp?), as to which way that wind will blow.

---jps

BlueAdept

You don't see that many S2000's over here... because they were limited import, but the price actually went up after the launch with people buying them and then realising they could make a mint by selling again pretty quick...

The thing is, the S2000 is quite desireable, and sold well, but the limited import, plus the general impracticality of the S2000 probably left a lot of people like me who will buy the 8 instead now...

I never bought the S2000 because I didn't really want a convertable, the 2 seats is a bit impractical and the engine is uninteresting. But I LOVE the way it looks, I think the 8 looks ALMOST as good, and in some ways nicer... and ALL my gripes about the S2000 are sorted... I couldn't ask for more.

Hercules

Actually I was very taken by the suicide doors... gave me the practicality that I wanted from say.. a G35. But not that damn ugly :P

Besides Mazda has a history of having well balanced cars that handle exceptionally, though their power has always left something to be desired. Anyways, the RX-8 will be a change on the road, a change in my driveway, and a substantial change in what I was going to spend on a similarly equipped BMW 330Ci.

I think I am making the right choice.

Rich

First of all, thanks for posting. That was one of the more interesting posts I've read in a while, even though many of the points you've brought up have been discussed in bits and pieces elsewhere. Kudos.

On to your post. You had me until the "pessimist" sentence. Sure, there's a chance that will happen. However, I strongly suspect that if Mazda has hit the mark sitting squarely in front of them, the car magazines will go absolutely ga-ga over the thing. I think that the power will be good enough to compete in whatever class they put it in, and the handling should blow everything else, particularly the other 4-doors, completely out of the water. If that happens, they should sell plenty. If Mazda also gets their advertising campaign going well and gets people to believe that there's nothing else that can match the performance and carry 4 adults short of a 330Ci, they should sell like hotcakes.

Sure, there will be people that think a bloated 3400 lb. (!) 350Z is the end all and be all of performance automobiles under 35k, but there are always those people.

I think there's a market, and if Mazda gets the car right, they should sell a ton. I certainly hope they do, because I really want a 4th gen RX-7!

Grimace

I agree with Rich, and I'll add this too. Everyone I showed the yellow RX-8 pre-production pictures to fell in love with the car. You should have seen everyone gathered around the monitor in class when we were supposed to be learning AutoCAD (or something). Once this car starts hitting the road and people start to see it, I think that will draw even more people to dealerships. Not many people know about the RX-8 yet (and I enjoy educating them).

soon2brx8

Hey there, still a new guy here.
I dont know who said it, but I read in either R+T or Motortrend (sorry, dont know which one) that there actually were plans for a new RX-7. It just all depends on the success of the 8. I cant find the article off hand, so I dont know what the actual differences in the two were, but they did say that if the 8 works out, the 7 will follow!

Hercules

Yea, there was also a concept design that was essentially the same as the 8.... but with no suicide doors, and the horsepower was beefier. Turboes were still being considered, but all contemplation will lie in the success of the 8

Immi

personally i dont want to see many RX8s on the road.. - if i do, i probably wont be buying one (i'm praying for limited production)

- the main reason why many of us like this car is because it's unique, once you start seeing more and more on the road - you'll lose your interest in the car (trust me)

Quick_lude

I might me in the minority but I don't care if they make boatloads of RX-8. It will mean cheaper prices, more aftermarket support, part availability, etc. If the car performs as advertised for cheap, I'm getting one.

psteng19

Wow, a lot of mis-information in here about the 350Z.

Link?
My guess is that car was not past break in period, driver was babying the car or poor driver.
For every Z, you can name running 16's, you can probably find more in the 13's.

The Z is not only about power and speed.
You forget that it handles like it's on rails and has a luxurious interior, just to name a few.
Have you sat inside both Camaro's/Mustang's and the new Z? Driven both?
If not, give it shot.
I think you'll retract this paragraph afterwards :D

Where are you getting 3400?
The heaviest model I see is in the low 3200's and the base model is high 3100.

Unless you're including driver weight...

Sputnik

Not only that, but if there are boatloads of RX8s out there, then that means that we are that much closer to another RX7 and a rotary Miata.

---jps

wakeech

psteng, "on rails"???
er, i'm not so sure about that, front end being 6% fo total mass heavier than the rear...
just for simplicity, let's say the car weighs 3200lbs even, and the difference is only 5%... that means the front wheels have 160lbs more car pressing on them... not to mention the understeer reported in SCC:

SCC article on new 350Z

heh heh, i especially like this bit:
"Drive it like a chick and the Z feels big and slow to respond. Drive it like a man and it wants to exit every corner *** first."

jesus christ... woo!! what a car!! :p

psteng19

If you're gonna quote articles, don't present only the bad and leave out the rest of the paragraph.

Pretty decent numbers.

I'm not trying to praise the Z or put down the RX-8.
You guys are bashing the Z, and giving it no respect.

The Z and RX-8 are both great cars... give respect where it's due.

wakeech

sorry, i don't mean to get so carried away (with the flaming)

those numbers have a questionable meaning, as exact comparison is nearly impossible: conditions, road surface, driver ability, and (most importantly) tyre variations (in contruction, size, and compound) really throw a lot of variation into these numbers (easily a few hundreths of a g, which these days makes the difference between fast cars and super cars)... not totally useless, but they don't mean this car handles well, as these very simple tests do not account for driving dynamics, which my quote points out.

the Z i'm sure is a great car, i love the old 300's, but i just don't think that they handle very well (my ex gf's brother had a '93 NA, and i think it's a really, really nice car to drive in, just not all that fast...)

Hercules

I was going to say the same thing.. except that in Car and Driver the reference was made that "this car plows the front end..." and also "there are more tossable cars for this price range."

Considering the fact I'm losing out on a poor interior (sorry no, it's NOT a nice interior.. i sat in it. I liked the seats though, everything else is as cheap as you expect from Nissan, losing two rear seats as compared to the RX-8, trunk space, exterior styling (I like the 8 better, but that's all a matter of opinion, so we won't argue on that one), and ROTARY (torque curve in the 350Z ain't seen nothing till you seen a rotary curve).

I don't see any reason to get a 350Z. The ONLY reason I would want to, is because I would near guarantee that the 350Z will be modded to get faster and faster, but the base handling of the car will always be tail happy and unbalanced, and there's little people can do to change that. The RX-7, Miata, etc... are all examples of Mazda's prowess in the handling department, where the likes of a Protege are compared with a Ferrari and BMW M3 for handling, and actually beats the M3 in a slalom.

Nissan isn't coming close, they are cheaping out too much and their designs are in my mind.. pretty ugly. Considering the fact now that they have SEVEN CARS with the same engine... they could have gave a little more to the customer buying the car by adding higher quality plastics and such for the interior, maybe some different accents here and there, just all around more car for your money.

I'd rather get a 330i than a 350Z, even if the 350Z will beat it in a race.. I'll have a lot more fun and an easier time controlling the 330i which is balanced, beautiful, and well constructed. And sure, it's a few grand more but I'm also paying for the BMW premium.

But I don't want to go near that mark of near 40k, so I'll get the RX-8, and almost undoubtedly experience remarkable handling (as Mazda has been known for), higher build quality than a Nissan (even the Protege is nicer than my Maxima's interior, as far as build quality goes), four seats, a useable trunk, and a sizeable chunk of change left in my pocket.

350Z lovers should really just jump into a Vette for that price, hell... 5 grand more and you'll have a car that's nicer and faster than the 350Z.

I just don't see a point in paying upwards of 30k for a car that's totally unbalanced and ugly.

But of course, this entire reply is to promote and incite debate Maybe 350Z lovers can refute me!?! I doubt it though..

Jerome81

I don't think Mazda would be dumb enough to make this car limited production. They're not doing this for kicks, they're making this car to make money, as well as be a new flagship.

The number of limited production cars is dwindling. Companies can't afford to build and sell cars at a loss.

Besides, if the car was limited production, none of us would be able to afford it. What makes a car affordable is that they can spread the cost to build them over many cars.

Donny Boy

Wrong. This car is so anticipated that numbers cannot express accurately the extent. This is a car from the most innovative car company out of Japan, no, in the world. When GM, Mercedes and others gave up on developing the rotary engine, Mazda went ahead and perfected it into the now available RX8 engine. Placed this engine in a beautiful body, draped around one of the most inviting interiors in a long while, equipped it with a 6 speed manual tranny powering the rear wheels. This car will sell very well. If I can get one without a price gouge by the dealer, I will get it as soon as it is available. This car WILL SELL. Did I mention that it seats 4 comfortably? Well it does.
Rotary
+4 door
+4 seater
+6 speed manual
+rear drive
+weight only 2970 lbs
+250 horses
= SUCCESS

Hercules

+ 50:50 Weight Distribution
+ Awesome Looking
+ Good Build Quality (better than any other Mazda, and the Millenia was really good.. better than any Nissan made)
+ Short throw shifter (just look at the pics, TEEENY)
+ In dash 6 CD/MINIDISC! (not for me but its neat hehe)
+ Mazda renowned handling
+ Rotary Torque/HP Curves :D

There's a lot more plusses but hey... let's not spoil it :P

Donny Boy

Way to go Hercules!

Rich

psteng19, my sincere apologies. I had a brain malfunction. You're right, about 2225 is what Edmunds has for the 3 models I looked at.

However, my error aside, I believe that my point still stands. In the sub-35k performance vehicle market, the 350Z does absolutely nothing for me. I believe that Colin Chapman said it best, "To go faster add lightness". Lightness is not only great for speed, but moreso for the feeling of tossability, fun, and "oneness" one gets from a well design vehicle. At 800 lbs. heavier than a Miata (base versions of both, taken from www.edmunds.com), the thing is horribly overweight. It doesn't even offer any additional practicality over the Miata, since the trunk is about 1 square foot larger. 0-60, skidpad, 1/4 mile, HP, and other stats mean very little to me. I can see nothing remotely interesting about the 350Z. I understand that many people do find the Z intriguing, but it's just not at all what I'm interested in in a car.

Sputnik

Ya know, I have to wait until I see a 350z in person before I can even pass judgement on it's looks, needless to say how it drives. Same thing goes for the RX8. So many cars look different in person than in pictures. Some better, some worse. And the LAST thing that I'm going to do is make a judgement on what a couple of magazine articles have said.

---jps

Red Devil

Since we're discussing the Z, here is a quote I found on a Z dedicated website:

"Weight distribution is 52/48. Nissan engineers intentionally designed the weight to be distributed that way because they believe it improves the car’s handling over 50/50 weight distribution."

(The guy doesn't explain where he got his insight on the 52/48 being better than 50/50.)

I'm nowhere close to being an engineer, but that sounds like a cop-out because Nissan engineers couldn't keep the weight down.

Who knows, maybe someone can enlighten me on the subject.