Ajax

You cant seem to shift smoothly, no matter how hard you try to concentrate and you might even grind the gears! I have been all day. I ground my gears twice today and I've only done that 5 times since I bought the car! Twice today.... It's just making me feel bad. I've been trying to shift smoothly all day long and failing. I don't understand why, but it sucks. I feel so bad for mistreating my car.....

Just out of curiosity, when you're shifting from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd, how do you avoid throwing the passengers forward as soon as you hit the clutch? If I shift at low RPMs, no matter what I do, I seem to throw people just a little bit because the car decelerates slightly, but very quickly....

Blah.. It's just been a bad driving day today...

mysql101

(I've said this now maybe a dozen times, but here goes again)

At the lower gears, at low speed, you really need to feather the clutch in order to shift smoothly. As you shift, lift off of the clutch slowly as you slowly press down on the gas. It doesn't have to be super slow, just 1-2 seconds worth of 'in between time' depending on how fast you're going, and the transition should be smooth as silk.

I am able to shift from 1st all the way to 6th without passengers even being aware of when I'm shifting (assuming they aren't watching my hands

guy321

Or you can take my approach, dont feather the clutch, but accelerate as quick as possible in every gear and shift quickly before the rpm's drop more than 1k or so.

But I sstarted to use Jason's method and it works good too

Ajax

it's not coming out of the gears that i have an issue. the issue is when i go to shift gears. I hit the clutch, the car starts dropping RPMs in gears 1-3 and you notice it right away at low RPMs because it drops FAST. That's when the people in the car are thrown forward slightly (not like major, OMG i slammed on the breaks, thrown forward), but head motion forward...

guy321

What do you mean by low RPMs? You shouldn't be shifting less than say 3500 at a minimum I would think.. If you shift that low, just do what Jason said and you should be fine.

beachdog

The passengers' heads are always going to move forward when you press the clutch in. The driver's doesn't because the driver is prepared and counters the movement instinctively. Just sit in the back seat of any manual trans car or truck and compare the motion of the driver's head to the passengers.

Want to see a really extreme example, my friend takes me up in his World War II fighter plane equipped with a cockpit camera. As he goes through maneuvers, his head stays relatively motionless while mine is banging from one side of the canopy to the other.

mysql101

You need to ease off the clutch SLOWLY a few times as you depress the gas, just to see the effect it has. There will be no way to jerk the car around if you let off the clutch slowly.

With practice, you can shift without any jerking motions, far smoother than an automatic.

beachdog

I believe Ajax was referring to pressing the clutch in and the deceleration at the beginning of the shift cycle when the power is first decoupled from the drive train. The only way to avoid that is to feather off the gas before shifting so that your speed is steady state. Not worth the effort because you'll be accelerating slower than a Hyundai Excel.

guy321

I have the same problem, the passenger drive around the most has big breasts so she always complains when it does that slowdown thing.. So I just rev it higher to 5k or so until I can get it into 4th.. By going to 5k and shifting quickly I can shift it smooth .

I mentioned that because she says it really hurts.

Ajax

yes.. that's exactly what i'm talking about.
As this is my first manual to OWN, i wondered if it was possible to completely remove. I always shift right about 3500 unless i'm in stop and go or having fun.

I just got to my office for an emergency.. Got here at 120 mph :b

Nubo

On the bad days you can just stick with 2nd and 6th :D

Feras

iTrader: (1)

haha ive done the 2-6 shift a bunch of times

ajax maybe you oughta try some modern day double clutching, when you shift out of 1st gear and you see the rpms drop blip the gas just a little bit before you drop into 2nd gear so that you engage at the correct rpm for 2nd gear. you'll end up shifting smoothly...very small blip almost a tap should suffice

Ajax

I do 2-5 or 2-6 sometimes too.. For some reason, last night it just wasnt clicking anymore.
We'll see how it goes today..

back to packing..

Raevik

Mazdaspeed Feras, isn't that procedure referring to as rev-matching, or are they the same thing?

I was under the impression it was rev-matching that was using the gas to limit the workload of the synchros by getting the rpms to the proper place of your target gear...

BasenjiGuy

If it's the rpm drop that is causing the jerk, you'll have to train yourself to:

1. Ease up on, but don't come way off the throttle. If I don't concentrate I find myself letting up too much on the gas and allowing the revs to drop below the engagement rpm of the next gear. This creates engine braking and "jerk".

I believe this car has an electronic "drive by wire" throttle that, at least in other cars, this type of throttle can be a little frustrating to use if the engine computer has different interpretations of what you are doing with your throttle foot.

It seems to me the car's computer wants to drop the revs a lot between shifts. I have to keep more pedal pressure to keep the revs from dipping than any other car I've owned.

2. Teach yourself what the rpm difference is going to be for each shift sequence. I.e. the difference in ratios from gear to gear is not the same, resulting in different rpm drops between different shifts. 1 to 2 has a different rpm drop than 4 to 5, etc. This gets me sometimes as well.

I'm still learning and trying to get all the shifts equally well executed. I also occasionally get hung up on the gates because I've never owned a six speed before. And I've been driving manual transmission cars since I was 12....

My previous manual trans cars include: '99.5 Audi A4 2.8 Sport, '94 BMW 325is, '94 Acura Integra GS-R, '90 Honda Civic Si, '87 Ford Mustang LX 5.0, '89 Toyota MR2, '85 Porsche 944, '84 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE (13B motor).

xxMax Powerxx

Push the clutch in slower, shift faster and feather the clutch out.

w2aew

I generally don't agree with feathering the clutch to smooth things out. This does nothing but wear the clutch faster, and trains you into a bad habit instead of practicing to shift the car properly.

You can pretty much eliminate the "head-bob" of your passengers by momentarily plateau-ing on each gear. By plateau-ing, I am referring to feathering out on the throttle at the top of each gear. As you reach the point where you're ready to shift, squeeze out of the throttle until you just reach a steady speed (not accellerating and not decellerating). Then, depress the clutch and shift up to your next gear.

By doing this, you'll eliminate the abrubt change from accellerating to decellerating, and your passengers won't look like the bobble head dolls on the back dash!

You'll also find that you'll begin to develop a rhythm and your upshifts will be a lot smoother without feathering the clutch. Above all, relax... ...smooth shifts are the result of practice and becoming an extension of the machine. If you concentrate on it too much, it won't be smooth.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

i am of the mind of saying that in modern times it is the same thing, back in the day before syncros you had to clutch to put the car into neutral, rev match and then clutch to engage another gear, thats true double clutching. But with the syncros essentially its just rev-matching...dont think many cars out there require true 'double clutching' anymore.

MPG > HP

[QUOTE=w2aew]... feathering out on the throttle at the top of each gear. ..QUOTE]

This works, try it!

The bobble-head thing is all about changes in inertia. When you feather (actually known as "roll out") out of the throttle, you are reducing the car's (and passenger's) acceleration to near zero. If your revs are matched properly when you engage to the next gear and ease the throttle back in, you will be going from a (temporarily constant) near zero acceleration between gears, so passengers won't notice.

I definitely wouldn't feather the clutch. If anything, just ease it in. There are small beefy springs built into the clutchplate designed to take up differences (rotational shock) between engine and transmission speeds, so "easing in" will let you feel those springs working. Notwithstanding, there's no substitute for proper rev matching in any manual transmission. Practice and enjoy the benefits!

hotpot

The trick is to clutch in/shift/clutch out as fast as possible, rev-matching as you release the clutch pedal.

LiL BenNy

Real noobie question... exactly what do you mean by feathering? slowly easing off? also can someone elaberate more on rev matching? so say your at 3500 rpm shifting up from 2n you want to hold it at 3500 rmp while you clutch and shift to 3rd?

staticlag

Feathering would be letting off/on the clutch slowly and feeling it grind a bit.

Slowly easing off, is slowly taking your foot off the pedal, instead of suddenly.

Rev matching is matching the veichle's revs to what they should be for the particular gear and speed you are traveling.

So if you started in 2nd gear and shifted at 3500 rpm(about 25 mph), what you would want to do is let the rpms drop a bit while the clutch is out to match the lower rpms that 3rd gear would need for you to be going 25mph, say 2500 rpms or so. This process is trial and error, and only hours behind the wheel teach you exactly how long a pause you need to make between gears to cause a smooth transition.

So if you were in 4th gear doing 4500 rpm, and decided you wanted to pass the 3 people in front of you and wanted more power, you would shift down to 3rd, but to cause a smooth transiton you would have to rev match to about 6300 - 6000 rpm before letting out the clutch again.

Yeah, while doing lower rpms, it really is easy to jerk people's heads, just try shifting at 4500 rpm everytime and you'll find it easier to match revs. That and quick hands, the quicker you can get your hand foot coordination to shift, but shift correctly the less deceleration you and your passangers feel.

I find that much of the time, if you ride with people a lot, they learn to adapt to your driving style and expect your shifts, thus eliminating head movement.

L8APEX

I have found that I have to remind my girlfriend that she can not sit like a wet noodle in the passneger seat! :D

That seams to have reduced it more than anything else.

IcemanVKO

Just tell her, you got the Sports Car, so she will have to get a Sports Bra.

If she wants to wear that frilly sexy thing, you will have to get an Automatic. :p


Oh and are you letting off the Gas, before you engage the clutch? If so your Engine, will be applying a breaking force to your car.

One neat trick for you guys new to manuals is that if you pull back on the Stick, and let off the gas, it will dis-engage from the gear, without even needing the clutch.

Sometimes for fun I will try to see how far I can drive without ever using the clutch at all. On my honda you can slip into gear at the apex when the car is transitioning from forward acceleration to neutral acceleration if you can rev match at the same time. Its very hard to do, but I have up shifted several times by letting off the gas and as the gear dis-engages letting the rpms back off while I slip the stick into the next gear. It has to be done just perfectly and quickly, but it can be done.

kellybrf

iTrader: (2)

blip the throttle and double clutch it