milo

I'm down to where I just can't seem to decide between a 350Z and a RX-8 (the pluses and minuses of each for me seem to almost exactly mirror each other). With the Z I keep the current car as reports having it be somewhat of a nighmare in snow (the disadvantage of massive torque). My last 2 cars were front-wheel drive (93 Probe GT (loved it, but constant annoying problems), 96 Sunfire GT (barely adequate handling, but quick, 7 years of abuse is showing , this is the 2nd car if needed)).

So my question is, how does the RX-8 handle in the snow? Anyone been out in the white stuff, yet? Come back and respond when you do, please.

I figure I already have to adjust to rear-wheel handling in snow, but I have no idea if the lower torque makes this handle in the snow predictably and safely and effectively (I here Z's are hard to get going without spinning wheels in the snow).

The only thing that seems to possibly separate them for me is the MPG. As I am an aggressive driver (I don't race, I don't waste time getting up to the speed limit after a stop, I go with the flow of traffic, but I'm over on the leading edge of the average speed bell curve, I like inertia in curves, braking is fun, etc., etc.). The MPG looks a little scary from some reports (mainly I'd lose one of valid complaints about too many SUVs on the road, never mind the money, environment, and political ramifications ).

Am I headed for 12 MPG or for 16 MPG? I'd find the latter bad, but liveable. I'd find the former a major problem.

milo

P.S. What I really want I think is an RX-8 with the HP it has, but with a torque curve like the 350Z!

Haris

RX8 has 164 or 159 ft. lbs. of torque. So get Z if you need torque that much.

milo

I left out the word 'shaped'. I want a torque curve shaped like the Z in an RX-8 with the RX-8's horsepower which would mean a proportionate value of torque.

Even in my Sunfire GT its nice that in a lot of the nice gear-RPM combinations that just mashing the pedal is going to be a burst of speed right then. Its only something like 150 HP. The RX-8 needs to be kept up in a high range (eating gas) or down shifted (eating gear) for that response. I'm sure I'll learn to compensate quite easily by both keeping the RPM up and downshifting. It will be interesting to see what turbos are like.

Its not that he RX-8 doesn't go when you press the pedal. Its just does quick in a mild way. Your still doing 80 down the on-ramp in a couple of ticks which is plenty 99% of the time. The only bad thing I worry about on the RX-8 is the MPG. And I hate that the Z doesn't have a sunroof. I am pretty sure (assuming that neither car would give me unreasonable maintenance hassles) I would be extremely happy with either and will always wonder what the other would of been like (if only I could get both - I would). RX-8's winter driving (for me thats about 5% of the driving) capabilities may be the deciding factor for me in the end as it may mean I don't need to keep my current vehicle.

Either way, blue is the color of the day.

milo

LightEmUp

Just stick with the sunfire. You shouldn't be driving an 8 in the snow.

ptiemann

my theory on that is that the early batches of cars are the ones with 12 or 13 mpg.

I bought mine this month - off the lot, and I get 18mpg so far.
(No, the 18 doesn't satisfy me either)

-Peter

milo

Yeah, I know. The RX-8 is too pretty for the snow.

The Sunfire would also be better for the grocery store, parking at the airport, rain (people where I am are morons when it rains), drug buys, hauling dirt, carry a rack for kayaking, disposing of bodies, cutting down ala Monster Garage, making into an art car, etc., etc.

To be honest, its not the $2K to $2.5K trade-in value (it would be nice though), but my single-car driveway and carport. It will be a big pain with 2 cars (even worse since there is no 2nd driver in the house). So I have to figure out somewhere to put in a parking space for the Sunfire if I don't get rid of it or convince my across-the-street neighbor to lease me this extra spot he owns. Problem is he says I'll have to park the RX-8 in front of his house.

milo

retrodog

I found myself in your postition, sorta. I ended up getting a WRX. You get a hp and torque combination that is superior to the RX8 and all-weather driving capability that will put you miles ahead of either the RX or the Z. Yes, I know it doesn't look anywhere as sexy as the other two but AWD is hard to beat.

But if you must buy one of the other two, I'd get the RX. It has what I believe to be superior quality and dependability, but only time will tell. The shifter is great and everything just feels a little better. You won't have quite as much power but the handling is probably much nicer and responsive.

h0rde

i am counting on my RX-8 being a $35k paperweight this winter. I went through the hassle of putting winter tires on my 99 prelude every year and i just don't feel like doing it with the 8. I'll borrow my brother's Jeep or something.

milo

Someone in our building at work recently got the WRX wagon in blue. Looks good.

I live in Louisville, KY so we don't usually get a lot of snow, but once every 5 or so years we do. Usually just 20-30 days that are slick. Maybe I'll just work at home those days.

I think the Sunfire will sit well on 4 paving stones off to the left of my driveway. I will have to be able to back onto the driveway in snow if the start of a snowy spell starts over night, but then I just park in the driveway until the snow goes.

Anyone know what a asphalt or concrete single car pad costs? I figure I could probably do the concrete myself, but if its not too expensive I'll just let the pros do it.

milo

asparapani

I wouldn't drive any sports car in winter conditions. I just bought my RX-8 thinking before i bought it that it was winter worthy. After driving for a week I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't be in my best interests. Ask yourself these questions and the answers should be logical.

What is an Rx-8 at it's core(design,function)?
An RX-8 is a sports car. A sports car is designed with winter driving conditions and starting at -40c. And even if you did drive the car in the winter, how practical would it be. Always slipping, salt and rocks from snow removal trucks hitting your paint. And of course the threat of other people's rally racing.

Of course this all depends how bad your winters get. I'm from Montreal. The winters here are cold,snowy, and just plain long.

I'm not driving mine that's for sure.

BillK

Geez, folks, it's a car like any other.

Get some snow tires and live it up; the traction control and DSC should make the 8 fairly decent in the snow once you toss a few bags of sand in the trunk to add some extra weight...

f1michel

If you live in Kentucky don't even care about snow man, buy the car you want more

retrodog

It's not just a snow thing. I live in Houston, where it only snows about once every 10 years. The rain is the other part of the equation though. On virtually any surface other than dry pavement, AWD reigns supreme. Any time it rains, sleets, snows, fogs over (condensation of road), or is just plane wet for whatever reason, the AWD will take you places faster and more secure than anything else.

So either you are worried about adverse weather conditons or you aren't. If you are, get AWD (whatever type you like). If you're not that concerned about it, get one of the other two. I'd get the RX-8.

Gord96BRG

As said - it's just a car! It will do fine in winter, and it's got a great heater too. By some people's logic, a Miata would be even worse in winter than an RX-8, but it actually is a good winter car. The RX-8 will be even better due to the DSC and traction control. Of course, any car will be useless in winter with the wrong tires - 4 good winter tires are a must. Even a WRX would be crappy on 4 summer tires - remember, the AWD helps get you moving, but doesn't really do anything for turning corners or stopping. The tires are still the key.

I will be enjoying my RX-8 year round, including making frequent trips to the ski areas in Banff. No way am I going to park it and drive a beater for 5 months a year!

Regards,
Gordon

Peakster

Are the RX-8's standard Bridgestone RE040 tires all-season or performance tires?

Wing

They are summer tires.

I don't see an issue in the rain though? How bad are you at driving? I have a GS no traction control drive the car in the rain fine no slipping. I don't GUN it in the rain that is retarded.

AWD will only get you going better, it is almost a false sense of security.

Peakster

Yikes! I just looked up all-season tires for RX-8s at tirerack.com, and they have NONE. I don't sure don't want steel wheels and winter tires! I hope we can avoid a winter like last year, and maybe they will have some next year, because RE040s are not to be driven in snow!

retrodog

Interesting point. I used to kind of think that as well. But then I got one and started driving it.

That "false sense of security" is kind of anti-anythingperformance in nature. What you get with a sports car is the ability to push the envelope a bit more than with a regular car. I got this experience in both my vette and miata. The problem arises when one forgets how far they are out there on the edge. Normal cars remind you by swaying and leaning so you usually back off before reaching "critical mass" (actually inertia). Now the fact of the matter is that a tight suspension with a real sports car (like the RX-8) will allow you to do many things much better than a regular car. But are you suffering from a false sense of security/stability? Will you lose it much worse when you start to slide? Hmmm...

Likewise AWD adds to the abilty of a car to perform in ways that others can not. And while it does indeed help you take off faster, it greatly increases your stability and ability to do so in less-than-ideal conditions. I have been experimenting with many of the effects of cornering (even on dry surfaces) since getting the WRX. There are techniques of downshifting and accelerating to regain control of the car, apparently caused by the resulting shift of weight of the vehicle, that has been a very interesting learning experience. I think I'd prefer the WRX to have the 50/50 weight distribution of the miata but "oh well".

So before you start trying to tell someone on here about the "false security" of a higher performance feature,,, try to remember that you are on a forum for sports car enthusiasts, not grannys who want to drive as safe as possible.

ALMOST8IT

In snow, weight over the drive wheels is essential for getting good forward momentum. Weight over the steering wheels helps steering, and if the drive wheels and steering wheels are the same so much the better. Also, the tuires should be narrow to concentrate the weight of the car, remember snow shoes are wide to walk above the snow. Additionally, a bit of ground clearance is required to make it through the ruts in the road and occasional ice chunks without causing damage to the car.

The worst car wor snow is a low riding, light, wide tired, rear wheel drive car with even or near even weight distribution.

Maybe the DSC in the 8 will be helpful in the snow, who knows. In my experience, growing up in Wisconsin, every RWD wide tired sports car I ever drove in winter (my camaro as well as mustangs, corvettes, and porsches owned by friends), was a trying experience if there was appreciable snow and ice on the ground. P.S. the ground effects package on my car was certainly not snow proof and I cracked then lost the front airdam in the first winter.

Good luck with the 8 in snow, if you risk it, let us know how it performed.

FONZIE

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Geez, folks, it's a car like any other.

Get some snow tires and live it up; the traction control and DSC should make the 8 fairly decent in the snow once you toss a few bags of sand in the trunk to add some extra weight...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with this thought completely. Think of all the other RWD cars on the road in the winter: BMW, Mercedes, etc.... Granted, they are all heavier, but the idea's the same.

h0rde

my mom's 328i sucked in the snow.

Gord96BRG

But did she have narrower winter tires on it, or was she trying to drive in snow on all-season or summer tires?

It really is all down to the tires - summer tires suck in the snow, all-season tires suck in the snow - the car makes less difference than the tires.

Regards,
Gordon

Literatii

I'm a canuck (Winnipeg->Calgary), and have driven my RX-7 in summer while driving my Toyota 4x4 in the winter. I'm looking at an RX-8 now for both seasons (with the right tires).

I've noticed a few things during our canadian winters. Firstly, most cities have heavily trafficked roads that essentially dry themselves out over a period of time. On those roads, a big dump can easily be "wiped clean" within a few days. The biggest problem I've seen on those kind of roads are bridged areas, where icy patches form.

But it's a given that residential streets/alleys can be poor for rwd vehicles during winter months.

What I found with my 4x4 in winter was that I generally had it in 4wd to get to the main city routes (2-3 blocks). And after that, it went into 2wd because the main routes were almost always dry. I'd say this is much more the case in Calgary than Winnipeg, where chinooks often warm things up to +5c. And then it's more a matter of having your windshield washer reservoir topped up

The other thing (as someone mentioned) is that traction during take-off is only half the battle. Even in my 4x4, I always ended up coming to stops like I was driving a 2wd... because 4wd never really helped. It came down to what tires I had on the vehicle.

Rocks and salt? I think Calgary stopped using salt a while back IIRC. I'm sure other cities must have given it up...?

mdmaclean

I just ordered Blizzack LM-22 225/45R18 tires for my RX-8. I am going to put them on the stock rims for the winter. All season tires are a compromise all year. Summer and winter sets of tires are the best way to go.

As for the 50/50 weight balance, that was what my BMW had. With traction control and winter tires, it was not a rocket in the snow, but certainly safe and driveable.

carnut

I'm doing the exact same thing -- 2 sets of wheels. The advent of traction control really helps out in the snow. Hopefully, we'll do okay, md!