Boozehound

I'm totally down with the idea of not requiring the utmost in performance. A balance of some sort is what almost everyone wants, and finding the point between luxuary and performance is up to the individual. But isn't all of this talk overlooking one important little fact?

Nobody's driven it! How can anyone say it has enough or too little power - you haven't commuted in it, or merged on the freeway at rush hour. Its hard to decide if a car is the right car for you, but shouldn't most of this "best balance of performance and functionality" talk come AFTER everyone has had some seat time? Everyone's needs for the car are different, and I think most people in this forum are banking on Mazda's reputation and are willing to give it a shot (if you placed a NON-refundable deposit, you're either nuts or a seasoned speculator ).

I for one am really encouraged by the amount of discussion and enthusiasm about the car even before it rolls off the ship, but why dont we wait until we get to the test drive part to start telling people what's what - especially when it comes to performance and functionality? I mean come on, who's loaded up their groceries and kids and run their errands in an 8 yet?

Efini 8

This car is totally unique: rotary engine, 4 doors, killer looks

Well personally I am an import tuner. cars are my hobby and maximizing performance and styling is something I really am into. I am not a fanatic that wants every hp out of the car... it doesnt really matter because I am not racing all the time. this car purely will probably for daily driving. but I do not see what is wrong with squeezing that extra hp out of the engine, tuning a rotary, hearing the nice soothing pitch of the exhaust, and induction of the turbo and then the ohhh so sweet Blow Off Valve hiss. Nothing like it. I am getting the leather and moon roof cuz I use my moon roof everyday unless its raining...

RIMS
Personally I love the fact the rx8 has 18" rims...but they are ugly as hell.

I am definately switching mine out to a more high quality wheel in 19" that is lighter and has an increased width. I have 19"s right now and I love them... they look great.

but I will switch out my suspension to a lower stance and higher quality coilovers with sway bars, strut towers, and lower tie bars. the stock rx8 is way too high for my taste.

Bodykit
I am personally designing my own and want to produce a line of aero fashion for my vehicle as a show piece. I am an artist and a masterpiece can always be made better with the right application.

I live in socal and the import tuner scene is crazy here... unlike most parts of the US excluding florida. I love to make my car faster, better, and better looking, there is always room for improvement.

personally I think I am trying to make up for the lack of performance in my current car... being an automatic and 4 cylinder soooo that being said... whats so bad about tuning a car?

G-man

And here I thought you were making up for your feelings of personal inadequacy.

All kidding aside, there is nothing wrong with "tuning" or "mods". That wasn't what I said. What I said was it seemed rediculous to choose the Sport Package over the GT package beause you didn't want a sunroof due to the extra 42 lbs. That just seemed silly. The constant trimming to save weight and the constant numbers game where battles are won or lost in fractions of a second just seems silly. People who like to complain will tell you there is not enough torque for them, or they miss the turbos of the RX-7. I think I outlined the top 10+ ways this car is superior without worring about the numbers game. I can guaraneed you all that you will enjoy it.

Efini 8

yea that is just stupid... not getting the moonroof to save 42lbs... maybe they should loose some weight

NomisR

Well its not so much the weight of the sunroof but the placement of the weight as well. For a car to be balanced, you'd want the weight to be as low as possible, and for the sunroof to be at the highest point of the car.. having an extra 42lb on the highest part of the car isn't too great.

I personally don't want the sunroof because its just something extra that would leak/squeak/rattle down the road.. not something I want. Plus you'd lose some structural integrity with a sunroof as well.

I wouldn't mind having leather (although I really wish they color matched with the exterior) or the Bose sound system and maybe the power stuff, those are great but I could certainly do w/o the sunroof...

vipeRX7

uhhhh I like speed because it's what I would buy this car for. If I wanted amenities I'd get a C230 "sports coupe" ... :p

revhappy

You are absolutely correct if you are looking for a GT car or a nice sports sedan. The problem is that mazda has marketed this as a sports car (with a legendary RX name that will currently be their flagship model) and a lot of people were expecting a pretty serious sports car.

Now before I get flamed, I am not talking about straightline speed or the "T" word. I'm talking about less focus on non-performance attributes (i.e. ride quality, rear passenger room, etc.) and more on performance (i.e. higher tuned suspension to reduce body roll, less understeer, quicker steering, etc.). Personally, I wouldn't change the powerplant at all, its a gem. However, as a serious sports car that can compete with the 350Z, S2000 and others, it needs to be lighter, IMHO.

The model exists for high reving , "low" engine torque designs to be quite competitive in their classes (i.e. S2000, Integra Type R, Lotus Elise, Celica GTS). I was hoping the RX8 would be this for the ~30K sports car class. In reality the RX8 does this, but in the $30-40K sports sedan class. Thus, that's why its does quite well when compared to the BMW 3 Series and G35 Coupe.

Personally, I have never had the opportunity to own a high performance car (though I have driven and salivated over a bunch), but now am financially (and personally mature enough to handle such a machine) able to do so. Given, that I'm reasonably young and don't care about ride quality (driveing a 10 year old Ford Escort with over 100K miles, many of which were through potholed filled streets toughens you up a bit . :o), I'm willing to make that sacrifice. Thus, that's why I'm going with the EVO. If I placed some more importance on ride quality and other amenites, the RX8 would have been a better fit. Again "different strokes for different folks".

desmo996

G-man, I think you have misunderstood us. We definately get the point regarding the RX-8. As an engineer, I understand the effort the engineers did to lower th CG of the RX-8 to enhance the car's performance. I appreciate that effort and I'm not going to take away from it by adding the moonroof. That is my personal choice and I think a lot of guys agree with me. Basically it comes down to cost-benefit-performance. There is no right-wrong dicussion here, it's just a question of choice.

desmo996

From Automobile Mag. Mazda two page ad:

" WEIGHT IS THE ENEMY .
Because every pound you save improves performance in every dimension:
Acceleration. Braking. Handling

*So it's almost 90 pounds lighter than even a popular all aluminum V6 (sports car engineers kill for 90 pounds) "

Engineers worked very hard to shave 90 pounds from the engine. The only thing I'm trying to say is that 42 lb for a moonrof makes a difference in performance, especially when it is so high from the CG.

babylou

This thread is assinine (sic?). We have one group cracking on another group for being obsessed about performance and the first goup says that the car is good enough as is.

What can be gained by this thread? To convince someone that they shouldn't do as they please with their car even though it affects others in no way? That is just closed minded. Some want to improve acceleration, others want to add body kits, others want hi-fi stereos, yet others see the car perfect as is. Great! I hate little spoilers, big spoilers or any body kits. Guess what? I do not participate in threads I am uninterested in.

desmo996

This is just a discussion. We are not trying to convince anyone to change their options. We are just pointing out that some modifications (moonroof) will affect the performance of the car by a larger margin than people think.

NomisR

Nobody's trying to convince anyone of anything, everyone's just giving their opinion's on what the car means to them and that they would want out of it..

There's bound to be disagreements in the world otherwise, what fun would it be??

BRx8

eh, i think he's upset about the little cracks here and there that's been showing up in other threads as well, like the crack about the license plate and the engine cover adding weight and affecting the center of gravity...

IMO, those are just little jokes that one should not be so offended on although I can see why he's getting upset being the person that has calculated the weight of every single little thing on the car down to the shift ****

personally the way i see it is this...everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what the car does for them...some will of course disagree and some will disagree in a way that will offend others...my advice is to either debate your idea with those ppl or ignore them altogether...no need to get so upset as you'll probably never meet any of these ppl in your entire life, hence their opnions shouldn't really be that important to you and you should only take them for their face value

babylou

Person 1: I want to find ways to get more power out of my RX-8.

Person 2: You are an idiot because I am completely happy with the power as is.

Person 1: Maybe my priorities are different than yours. I tend more towards speed than most. Is that so bad?

Person 2: No one needs more than 260 hp. You are an idiot. If I do not want more power then no one should have more power.

Person 1: Okay, I never use a sunroof so why should I pay money for a sunroof and be saddled with the extra weight?

Person 2: I like sunroofs and the RX-8 is not a pure sports car so everyone should have a sunroof, idiot.

Person 1: Well then can I trade the weight of the sunroof for the luxury of weighty stereo equipment?

Person 2: No! The stereo is fine as is. You seem to have a hard time understanding me. Even though you made the money to buy your RX-8 they should all be made to my tastes. I am the final judge as to what is good or not. Idiot!

Is that what you call a debate? I don't. Like I said earlier, If you don't want this ot that, great. Read the name for the topic and if it is not your cup of tea move on. I do.

nk_Rx8

:D You just did!

But seriously, you're right about the 2 camps and nothing will change with threads like this. The same torque arguments happen with the S2000. The Miata has it camps too. One side thinks the car is perfect and fun, while some will say it is to slow for them to enjoy it. But it isn't the best selling sports car in the world for no reason at all.

I don't know if the RX8 is right for me, but that doesn't mean I dilike the car either. It's just might not be for me. Same with the 350Z. It's a nice car, but just doesn't do anything for me. I'm still waiting for a car that will not only meet my personal performance criteria, but more importantly, has to "stir my emotions".

sheylen

women too:D

Fëakhelek

Personally, I think that the purpose of the thread is to get to say, "If I wanted power, I would just drive my Bugatti or Ferarri to work."

Fact is that each person has to decide what they want out of this car and if it is worth $35k to them. There is no one correct answer that proves that you are a true enthusiast while your opponents are just uncultured street racing slobs, or that you are a track eating demon while your opponent would sacrifice 50lbs in weight to install a bin to hold their 'Depends'.

I think some people need to remember that not everyone can be totally satisfied with the idea of a car that is simply unique. True, there is more to a sports car than speed, but speed is definitely a factor. Otherwise we could drive MGs. Not that MGs aren't cool, but there is nothing wrong with wanting a fast car.

Try to remember that for a lot of people this will be their only car, or their first performance car, or the best car they have ever owned. When you can't buy another car on a whim, you want everything about your car to be special and hopefully superior to the other cars you have passed up. I just find it a little annoying when people make comments like, "If I wanted X(feature), I would just buy Y($60,000+ car).

Hercules

There are not only 2 camps of people.

There is a third camp, of which I'm a member, that is just a reality-based camp.

We realize that the RX-8 could be faster, handle better, do everything better... but it all comes at a price. And the price we're paying right now with the convienience features and rear seat, not to mention nice interior and styling, all at 30k or less is VERY impressive.

If you want a car that's ALL out performance, then this isn't it. The Evo, STi, sure.... If you want one that's got all out styling, build quality, AND performance, then again, this isn't the car. That car would be much more expensive (think M3, S4, C32 AMG, etc). But if you want a car that comfortably seats four, handles exceptionally well, has pretty damn good power, and the most impressive engine design on the market, then the RX-8 is the car for you.

And if you don't like something about the RX-8... then don't buy it. I just don't want to hear the complaints about the car because there are lots of other choices out there for you to get your 'fix' for speed and power. I prefer, as do many others here, a lightweight car that's plenty fun to drive, and doesn't empty my pocket at the end of the day. The RX-8 is a 4 seat Miata to me.

The people that want the excessive power of the Evo and STi seem to me, and I could be wrong, just the typical stoplight racers that don't know how to drive outside dropping the clutch and peeling out for their drag racing. True driving excitement to ME, is being able to (on a track or suitable area) able to take those corners at the apex, even kicking the tail out, countersteering and getting a nice little drift into a turn, all the while maintaining extreme control because of the car, and because of the driver's skill.

There's a saying by bwob, that goes "If you can't go fast with a 90hp car, 900hp won't help you." And going around those curves with excessive speed, being able to apex and control it properly is to ME, so much more rewarding than being able to fly in a glorified econobox like the Evo or STi.

But again, that's just ME. Everybody's different. But don't buy this car thinking it's something it's not and then complaining. All the information is here for you, all the reviews give you that same information. This car is about handling, looks, quality and value. The emphasis can be placed in my opinion, on handling which is what I'm happy about. The power is plenty for me right now, maybe in a few years I'll think I want to move up again; besides if you really need to go to 60 or the quarter faster than you're better off buying a nice F-Body and putting some money into it; you'll wind up spending less even after mods and have plenty of power.

I don't need EVERY drop of power that other cars may offer. I need a great handling RWD car that's got good quality inside and out, room for four, good looking and good value. The RX-8 is the only one that fits the bill for me.

Different strokes for different folks. Comparisons done nowadays are stupid, because cars are so different. The only direct competition to the RX-8 is the G35 Coupe and 330Ci. And considering the latter two come at a $5,000 and almost $10,000 premium over the RX-8, and offers less in almost every category (though the G35C wins in power), the choice is more clear.

So if you want the Evo, STi, or <insert car here>, then go buy it. If you have questions about the RX-8, then ask them, we are happy to answer. But if you're here complaining about a car that's built for great handling and great value, because it's "not fast enough" or "not light enough", just think before you ask because all those items come at a PRICE. And that's a price right now, I'm not willing to pay. Neither are a lot of others.

Cheers.

NikoN

Damn, nice job Hercules.

ZoomZoom

Dido... you can defiantly put me in the 3rd camp!

revhappy

Very well put, I couldn't agree more. A point that I was making was I wish they placed more emphasis....on the performance part of the mix...but let me emphasize this is primarily related to HANDLEING..that's right....the RX8 has such potential...but IMHO..they fell short by compromising too much by putting too much GT/sports sedan qualities into the mixture of hybrid sports car (that is marketed as a sports car). According to the Sports Car International article, the car would not fare well in autocross without some serious adjustments to the suspension...if I'm paying $30 K for a "sports car"...I shouldn't have to immediately adjust the suspension to make it a reasonable autocross vehicle..especially if its niche is superior "handleing".

That's right no one should ever say anything negative about the RX8...because its absolutely perfect. Anyone that wants anything faster must be "just the typical stoplight racers that don't know how to drive outside dropping the clutch and peeling out for their drag racing." The EVO and STI, while great from a stop are not designed to be nor are the best choice for drag racing due to the high RPM launches they require to fully take advantage of their traction when launching. They are "point and shoot" cars designed to handle real roads (yes even ones with sharp turns and curves) and accelerate in quick bursts to take advantage of the often fleeting straights. You keep on insinuating they are just economy cars with a turbo and nothing else..essentially japanese muscle cars.

I completely agree with BWOB's point. However, I have a 90 HP "econobox" (actually I think its 88 HP to be exact) and while it has a crappy suspension (in terms of having high limits and a smooth ride) its still fun cause its got a reasonably easy gearshift and is like 2300 odd pounds. "Econoboxes" are one of the few classes of cars that are still relatively lightweight...and IMHO..in some cases dare I say "fun" Of course according to Hercules..anyone can create an EVO or STI by slapping an aftermarket turbo on their (pick your favorite "econobox") since as a "glorified econobox" they have nothing else substantively different designed to give them their legendary status throughout many parts of the world. Would putting faux wood trim and heated seats transform it from a "glorified econobox" to something else??

Since you have never driven a serious rally-inspired car (though I'm sure you have researched them extensively before expressing your opinion), how do you know you can't have "fun" besides being able to "fly" in them. Why do you think they have been so widely hailed by enthusiasts such as EVO, CAR and Top Gear magazines for years?? Are they perfect, hell no. They don't offer a smooth ride, they sure as hell could look better, but they are fun as hell, are somewhat practical and affordable to the common man. I suggest you test drive an EVO. Just drive it and see what it's like, you just might see there is more than one way to have fun in your car(ok..maybe there is another one too LOL). I can provide you with a dealer where you can get a test drive (BTW...driving a WRX does not equal driving an EVO...trust me as I've tested them both).

As for the great, classic RWD handeling charateristics...you describe..I think it might be much more stable than you think with the long wheelbase and understeer tuned in...I doubt its going to be like an S2000 or a mid-engined RWD car in those scenarios where total concentration (and driver involvement) is required, but I could be wrong.

You never really know until you test drive a car..I don't care how much "information" you have. IMHO, the "handleing" could have been better if they didn't try to accomplish too many things with this car. Its excellent when compared against sports sedans, but against many sports/performance cars it doesn't measure up (based on information I have seen). I'm happy it fits the bill for you, but it dissappointed a lot of people as well. I would have much preferred to get an RX8 with near the same focus on perfomance as the EVO (that is and RX8 with the same or even less power than it has now) using a true lightweight design to take advantage of the high reving NA rotary. Perhaps it will come with a Mazdaspeed RX8 or the next RX7?

Its ridiculous to classify cars into ridiculous subcategories. Price and GENERAL type (in this case FUN and perhaps practical too) are what's important to most people including me.

There are plenty of cars that were more tuned to performance in their class. They just compromised some of the amenties for it. I listed such cars in a previous post in this thread.

BRx8

eh, but we're still being a little hard on the people that want a performance vehicle...you guys can't honestly say that you wouldn't mind the car to be as fast as possible, right? of course...maybe sacrificing the luxury items associated with such a car in order to improve weight and handling isn't the best way to go about it, but there will be some pure sports car fanatics out there that will eventuallly gut the hell out of the RX, removing the stuff that would actually matter like the passenger and rear seats and air conditioning unit...we can't really blame them as that's what they want to use the car for...

to each his own...i think this "debate" is over now and everyone should move on to other topics...

Hercules

rev instead of just reading one of my posts, you should check out other ones that say I am waiting for the RX-8 to come out to make a proper judgement on it. The G35 Coupe I have driven and really enjoyed, and that would be my choice if the RX-8 didn't work out.

And JUST FOR YOU, I kept putting the line in there "FOR ME", which meant that I realize not everybody is looking at it from my point of view, so for you to start quoting and assuming I mean for everybody is in poor taste.

Regards.

revhappy

Its definitely a step in the right direction! That being said, if you state something that is you opinion, but its obviously not true and can be disproven by facts, then I think it should be corrected. That's how false information spreads.

Hercules

Yes but none of my opinions can be disproven... argued against sure, but that's why it would just be debate; there's no real answer.

I just can't stand the fact that if I'm paying 30 grand for a car it is a great car in the body of a shitty one, ie, a glorified econobox. I never said that you can take a regular version and slap a turbo on it, and it would be the same; I realize the genious in design. I just don't want to pay 30k+ for a car that is not distinctive in some way, shape or form.