bascho

The thread about the low sales of the RX8 started to go in a few different directions. I wanted to start a new thread dedicated to the discussion about the 2006 and it's poor execution. I for one expected many more improvements with the 2006 RX8 and instead we got new colors and a different key. WTF?? Who agrees or disagrees that Mazda is complacent with regards to the RX8.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

If you ask me, I'll say :

People hardly know what is a Rotary.

There was some people who asked, what kind of car I have it looks nice. and how many Cyclinders it has(?!?!?!)

So I guess the problem here is that, majority of people dunno what Rotary is all about. all they know is V4/V6/V8/V12 blah blah.

They need to put more ads, but the problem is, most of the public is too dumb to learn that instead of piston,you can actually put Rotor inside an engine. What is Rotor thats another question.

So if Im Mazda, I dont think I will even bother to explain too much for now. and see if "word of mouth" will work over time, if not, then I'll put more ADs.

BunnyGirl

All along I didn't expect that they would have made a whole lot in the way of improvements in 06. When I decided to buy this car when they were first coming out I knew I would be buying an 06 and was fairly certain it would be really close if not the same as the 04. I thought 07 or 08 would be the big upgrade/improvement year for it. They did change the automatic so that was an upgrade/improvement. I'm not disappointed that they didn't do more to it since I didn't expect them to yet.

Raptor2k

Eh...I don't want my '04 to be inferior

bascho

No automotive manufacturer starts out thinking about a redesign earlier then 3-4 years from launch......but they may be forced into it by competition. Mazda did very well for the year 2004 with the RX8, but 2005 sales show that the market is competitive and expects more out of the RX8. With the limited amount of changes to the RX8 for 2006, I have a feeling the total sales in 2006 are going to be worse yet. I think is was a mistake on Mazda's part to not pull a future change forward to try to turn around the decreasing sales on the RX8. Oh well.

zoom44

by poor execution do you mean- delaying production while they figured out exactly the cause for all the 4 port engine failures in vegas et al plus the various ones you hear in other areas that are stalling and getting their PCMs sent back to MNAO for programming etc and finding fixes for those issues that can be implemented on the assembly line (and readying parts for cars in the US) plus using the extra capacity on the assembly line (while the 8s werent being built) to crank out more Mazda3s(which demand outpaced supply for like 2 months) plus retooling another part of the line for CX-7 production and then producing for 8s the European Japanese and Australian markets before the US and Canada and then only doing the Minor updates they hd planned since the beginning and holding off on the facelift until mid 2007 as planned - then yeah i guess you could call that poor execution.

Chronos

I Think Mazda is trying to focus on the 6 and 3 a little more because those are considered a little more of a family car. Further more they are launching the CX-7 (SUV) which is a completely newCar. So they rather launch it in a good way and that involves alot of Marketing. So I think they sacrifise a little of the RX-8 marketing. As mentioned already i think Mazda is waiting to deliver a complete changed RX-8 for 2008. Regarding the fact that its too early for a face lift in a model that came out 3 years ago. I am very happy with the 2006 RX-8. The ability to have more colours for the Shinka is pretty kewl eventhough i loved the Black Cherry Mica colour.

bascho

I guess poor execution was the wrong way to put it. I just meant that 2006 should have brought about more change then it did. I am aware that Mazda intended on doing a facelift eventually.....but when your sales start to dip, you (Mazda) need to react and possibly pull ahead a change previously scheduled for 2007/8. The future of all vehicles is based on whether or not people will buy them. 2005 brought total sales of just over 14,000 for the RX8. The 2006 RX8 is virtually unchanged......so Mazda should not expect sales any greater than 14,000 for 2006. How many years of horrific sales does it take to kill a vehicle? If the Mazda can't build the RX8, Mazda3 and the CX-7 at the same time because of capacity constraints......then how can Mazda bring a Kabura and a Senku to the market along side them? The answer.....by eliminating the RX8. (second person: Mazda perspective) Why not? We only sold 14,000 in 2005 and 12,000 in 2006 (my guess)......people obviously didn't bite. Let's try the Senku and see if that sells.

bascho

A face lift is not the answer.......content and performance is. I love the way the 8 looks. My disappointment is performance, fuel economy, quality and content. The looks of the car have never been the problem. Fix the problems Mazda!!

yiksing

Yeah I don't want to feel screwed I bought an 05 so I don't think mazda should do more, if they can fix all the current problems then its good enough.

msrecant

Mazda came out with the RX-8 in the 2004 (mid 2003) model year, a brand new car that included a brand new rotary engine (not just your Father's 13B). Mazda then came out the all new Miata in the 2006 model year (no shared parts with the original).

I would say this is very aggressive support of the sports car market which is not the biggest market in the industry. I would not expect them to make any big changes to either line any time soon (5 years from intro). Even the 2007 RX-8 facelift (if it is even that extensive) is gratuitious as I don't see the RX-8 really falling behind the competition in any area, styling or mechanical, any more so than it was either "ahead" or "behind" when the RX-8 first came out.

What I don't see Mazda doing is addressing the core issues identified on this forum, which may tell us where we stand in terms of Mazda's perception of the entire RX-8 marketplace.

rx8wannahave

I agree with RG and Bascho on this....hard to explain but I do.

Sometimes I think Mazda is just sitting back waiting for the 8 to run it's course and other times (by the PCM updates, and time and money spent on problems) I think they have bigger planes than we think for the rotary.

Time will tell...but of course, most of us WANT IT NOW....tomorrow is lost...only today is acceptable.

mikeb

I love the looks but the GAS omg

Krankor

Frankly, I've given up trying to figure Mazda out. They treat the 8 as such an orphan child that I don't understand why they produced it in the first place. Not that I'm complaining, I'm glad they did. But it has never gotten the marketing it needed and deserved. There really seem to be only two groups who know anything about the 8: the die-hard rotary crowd, and the gear-head crowd. The rotary crowd was always going to buy the 8, regardless of marketing. And the gear-head crowd was *never* going to buy the 8, as evidenced by the perpetual whining about hp and stats. (which is fine, if that's what they care about, more power to 'em) But the rest of the world really doesn't know what an 8 is, and that's where the marketting should've been. If you were content to only tap the RX-7 crowd, then you could've just made a new RX-7, and people would have been even happier with it. But if you're going to deliberately make the decision to go in a more practical direction, to broaden the car's appeal... then you have to market to that broader audience! To people who have never owned a sports car but might like one if only there were one that could carry a kid or two. To people who have no idea what a rotary engine is, but might think it's pretty cool if they knew.

The biggest mistake Mazda made with the 8 was those stupid "hug" commercials, which told you NOTHING. And a few facelifts now isn't going to fix that. They never really supported it, so it never became a significant sales proposition, and now since it isn't a significant sales proposition, they don't want to support it. They've clearly moved on to other things and just don't care. I won't be the least bit surprised if it never gets any kind of overhaul, but just gets put out to pasture.

silver_8

Im glad they didnt change very much. Especially the exterior. You know how sad you would be if the 06 pulled up next to ur 04?! I can wait till 08 then get the new one...

All in all...good upgrades! I want that KEY!!

zoom44

this is what bogggles my mind- how so many people can be so certain that they have "moved on" and just dont care. its a ridiculous conclusion to draw from extremly limited information .

as far as "core issues" go- mpg isnt going to get any better with this iteration of the rotary. except for changing tranny ratios like with the 2006AT getign rated at 1 mpg higher in the Highway tests than the MT.

power- MNAO is still working/testing on variations of FI for increased power. So is Australia(even tho i think this is a weak marketing ploy) Im quite sure Japan is too.

flooding? always goign to be an issue- even a really small one as it seems to be now with thigns getting mostly sorted.

and Mazda has addressed their capacity issue
http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_n..._Chongqing.php
they dont have to produce for china now

torbee

The lack of advertising is remarkable.

I'm not a big car mag reader - in fact, I never used to read them at all.

But I'd been thinking of getting a sports car for the first time. Of course, becasue of all the advertising, etc., I figured I'd go get a new Mustang. I have two small kids and it has a backseat, so OK. Well, I hated the interior - felt it was way too cheap - and had almost decided screw it, I'll buy another VW Passat.

Then I stumbled on my brother-in-law's Car and Driver which had the year-long test drive results on the RX*8 and I was hooked before even test driving. Then, I test drove, and fell in absolute love with the car.

Then I got to asking myself: why the hell have I never seen or heard anything about this car that's been out for more than two years!?!?

I've been looking since last fall, and have yet to see a print or tv ad for the car. And at my Mazda dealer, they keep them around the back, you can't even see them from the street. It kind of freaked me out, like Mazda was ASHAMED of the car or something.

Blue87Sport

Not to hijack the thread but is there any definitive information about the hot/dry climate engine failures? The last I read, there was a lot of speculation but no real answers including were the engines really blown or was it some sort of limp mode.

Does anyone know what changes, if any, Mazda made to address this issue?

bascho

Zoom, fuel economy is always going to be a concern when the performance does not back up the bad gas milage. I don't think half the owners would complain if they had 300whp and 15mpg......that is expected. It's having 185whp and 15mpg that is hard to swallow. Mazda is not going anywhere and as long as they are around they will be building sporty cars. However, unless Mazda makes some landmark discoveries in rotary engine development, it just makes bad business sense to continue down that rotary path. How will Mazda be able to sell people on the rotary engine when gas is $3.50 per gallon and the competition is offering more powerful cars and greater fuel economy? I think the rotary is pretty cool too.....but I am not willing to pay $50-75 a week in gas for the pleasure of driving a car that will get it's *** handed to it by a 2008 Hyundai whateveryouwannacallit.

griffe

I've been reading about the lack of advertising that Mazda has done for the 8, but think about it, have they ever really advertised for any of the cars that carry the "RX" badge? I can't recall that much advertising for any generation RX7, but nonetheless, their was a cult following for it. I picked up my 8 on Feb. 7th ( I have yet to upload a pic. because the server says that it's too big ) anyhoo, I love it when I'm on the streets driving and young and old, men, women and children are rubber necking trying to see what my car is. When I drive, all attention is on moi! I love it! Even when I'm at my local neighborhood Wal-Mart (we all have one) I get stares from almost everyone on the parking lot. I love it! Some people have come up to me and asked, "What is that?" or some say, "That's an RX8! DUDE THAT MF IS FINE!" Would I like more power, yes....but the flexibility of the rotary and endless RPM's, and the sound, oh don't forget the sound of that fine rotary whine, it's totally orgasmic. All of that wrapped in a beautiful shell. I guess some people say Mazda's lack of advertising hurts...sales, etc. But the lack of advertising makes the car that much more of an exclusive and fascinating. You have Z's coming out of the butt around here, and when someone see's one, they say "oh it's another Z" But when an RX8 comes on the scene, they go goo goo and gaa gaa! I LOVE IT!

zoom44

not as many cars as reported need engine replacement. about 200 total over the whole US. but the issue was also more pervasive that at first known. many more cars in locations all over were having some symptoms mostly during hi traffic hi heat days( cars stalling and not starting up again). one oil cooler was not sufficient. oil cooking off. so PCMs are sent back to Mazda for programming of new MOP parameters( which had to under go testing for epa aprroval) and many options were considered as far as more cooloing. a second cooler seems to be sufficient although adding fans(temp controlled electric) has been considered. i dont know the exact final solution but i know one was in place by the beginning of february. most likely is the second oil cooler kit for affected cars. there was some pushing back and forth between MNAO and Japan on the subject of having the 4port autos at all in the states this year with MNAO "winning" that match.

bascho

^ again.....the problem with the 8 has never been looks. I don't think I can recall one person who thought the 8 was not a great looking car. But are looks enough? I like being able to rev to 9000 also....but the Renesis is not what I would call 'a nice sounding engine'. It sounds like little gas engine......wheeeeeeee wheeeeeeee. Not exactly something that puts a smile on your passengers face. My idea of a great sounding engine is American V8's....then maybe Italian V12's.

zoom44

everybody ive revved it for loves the sound.

Go48

I think this statement will answer part of your concern. The RX-8 is an enthusiasts car, not a mainstream vehicle, so unless you were an enthusiast--meaning pouring over many souces of information on new vehicles--you might not see any advertisements. They did advertise in car media and on TV quite a bit during the first year or so after the release and also most, if not all, of the car mags had evaluations of the car during that same period.

Currently, Mazda has several new models they are marketing so their concentration is on those models. I'm sure their marketing budget is limited so maybe they can't afford to effectively promote all their models at the same time.

I don't think you will ever see extensive marketing for a niche car like the RX-8. Most enthusiasts, the likely purchasers, will be aware of the existence and capabilities of such a car well in advance of it's release and they will keep up with major upgrades as well. So advertising to the "masses" is kind of a waste of money when it is unlikely that most non-enthusiasts will not want a car like this with a "radical" engine and a departure from their "norm".

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Sound .... love it or not. depends on the person.

For me, Im side with zoom44. I love the weeeeE weEeeeEEe sound.

Its cool to have such a big and unqiue "eletric motor kind of sound" engine.