What other cars are you looking into?
04-20-2002, 11:11 PM
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back on track...
04-21-2002, 09:06 PM
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any1 here has Celica GTS? My final choices will probably be between Mini Cooper S, Celica TS (GTS + extra options for Euro market) & Mazda RX-8
the thing is that my family will open a toyota dealership, so I can get it at significant discount...
another thing is that Mini Cooper S will still be cheaper with more equipment... and no1 still knows anything about how much RX-8 will be... so post ur experiences with Celica GTS if you have them
the thing is that my family will open a toyota dealership, so I can get it at significant discount...
another thing is that Mini Cooper S will still be cheaper with more equipment... and no1 still knows anything about how much RX-8 will be... so post ur experiences with Celica GTS if you have them
04-23-2002, 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by DANNER
car...It looks cool and it should be fast.
car...It looks cool and it should be fast.
04-23-2002, 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by FritzMan
Honestly, I've felt the exact same as veloracing several times. I'm *really* disappointed at how slow Mazda is on getting off their behind and releasing the damn thing. I'm more worried about waiting another full year and then learning that the final specs are disappointing (such as the curb weight), or an inflated price reducing the bang for the buck. But how many other fairly powerful rear wheel drive 4 seaters are there out there besides the oh-so-common Bimmer?
Honestly, I've felt the exact same as veloracing several times. I'm *really* disappointed at how slow Mazda is on getting off their behind and releasing the damn thing. I'm more worried about waiting another full year and then learning that the final specs are disappointing (such as the curb weight), or an inflated price reducing the bang for the buck. But how many other fairly powerful rear wheel drive 4 seaters are there out there besides the oh-so-common Bimmer?
That is one huge problem they have to address. Hopefully Ford pushes them in the right direction. Salesmen are usually clueless. When I was looking at a Mazda MP3, and told the sales guy about my RX, he started spouting specs about the car and all sorts of trash. 300HP from the factory? In his dreams. I walked out of there fast. When I order my RX-8, it will be at least the second model year, and through an online service. No more dealing directly with the dealer.
04-24-2002, 01:51 AM
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they are just humans, and you are asking them about info that they read in magazines like yourself, if they had super human abilities, they would own the place, not work in it
04-24-2002, 03:38 PM
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If the salesmen actually read the magazines, they would have their figures correct. The 3rd generation RX-7 has 255 HP from the factory. I don't expect them to know everything, but at least be honest with me when I am buying a car.
I wonder if the owner of a VW/Kia/Mazda dealership knows every fact about the cars he/she sells and services.
if they had super human abilities, they would own the place, not work in it
04-26-2002, 08:08 AM
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Well, I'd rather they delay the release and work out all the bugs. Gives me more time to save up.
I'm in the same boat as the rest of the Canucks on this board. I'm waiting to see MSRP on the car before I fully commit. Its my top choice right now, too sexy for its own good.
Love rotary engines, and its amazing the amount of room inside considering its outside dimensions. More rear legroom than the 626, exterior dimensions identical (almost) the NSX (except height). Amazing. What a great packaging job.
Other cars I'm looking at:
- Mitsubishi EVO VII, depending on more details being released about this car (mainly pricing and release date, and if they "soften" it for our market).
- Lexus IS300, like the styling, love the straight-6
- Miata or Honda S2000 (but I think I need rear seats for occasional use, no matter how small they are). Porshe Boxter (heh heh yeah right, maybe if they drop the price $30000...)
- Celica GTS, RSX Type S (wish they were RWD and a few thousand cheaper)
- VW Golf GTi or Jetta 1.8T, now that they've got 180 HP and tighter suspension. Prices are getting a little high though.
- BMW 325ti. I like the idea of their excellent 2.5L 6 in a short RWD wheelbase. Haven't heard anything about this for a while though. Is it still coming to North America?
I'm in the same boat as the rest of the Canucks on this board. I'm waiting to see MSRP on the car before I fully commit. Its my top choice right now, too sexy for its own good.
Love rotary engines, and its amazing the amount of room inside considering its outside dimensions. More rear legroom than the 626, exterior dimensions identical (almost) the NSX (except height). Amazing. What a great packaging job. Other cars I'm looking at:
- Mitsubishi EVO VII, depending on more details being released about this car (mainly pricing and release date, and if they "soften" it for our market).
- Lexus IS300, like the styling, love the straight-6
- Miata or Honda S2000 (but I think I need rear seats for occasional use, no matter how small they are). Porshe Boxter (heh heh yeah right, maybe if they drop the price $30000...)
- Celica GTS, RSX Type S (wish they were RWD and a few thousand cheaper)
- VW Golf GTi or Jetta 1.8T, now that they've got 180 HP and tighter suspension. Prices are getting a little high though.
- BMW 325ti. I like the idea of their excellent 2.5L 6 in a short RWD wheelbase. Haven't heard anything about this for a while though. Is it still coming to North America?
04-26-2002, 08:18 AM
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you mean new compact (bmw 325ti)? It will actually now be refreshed, only 12 months after it came out... I think BMW set the record on that one... its pretty pathetic that their new design chief has no clue about wtf is he doing.
so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...
so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...
04-26-2002, 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by spwolf
you mean new compact (bmw 325ti)? It will actually now be refreshed, only 12 months after it came out... I think BMW set the record on that one... its pretty pathetic that their new design chief has no clue about wtf is he doing.
so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...
you mean new compact (bmw 325ti)? It will actually now be refreshed, only 12 months after it came out... I think BMW set the record on that one... its pretty pathetic that their new design chief has no clue about wtf is he doing.
so I suspect that new version will come to the states as well... luckily for us, since the one that came out last year was the ugliest bmw ever...
04-26-2002, 08:40 AM
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nah, 325ti was a sweet drive, real 3 series, inside and under... out is the problem... we will see if they can make it any better 2nd try
only other thing is that it is expensive... only a little bit less than similar 3 series ($1,5k less), so for USA, I dont see why would you get it at all...
only other thing is that it is expensive... only a little bit less than similar 3 series ($1,5k less), so for USA, I dont see why would you get it at all...
04-26-2002, 08:43 AM
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As to EVO VIII (which is what is goin to USA), it is +$35,000 car, much more radical than WRX (even WRX STi)... inside is cheaper tho...what i read from brits so far is that they think its crazily good and better than WRX STi
Last edited by spwolf; 04-26-2002 at 08:46 AM.
04-26-2002, 11:49 AM
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Yup, it's starting to sound like the Evo is getting up there in coin. From a performance stand-point probably worth it though.
I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that.
What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...
I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that.
What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...
Last edited by FritzMan; 04-26-2002 at 11:51 AM.
Lets hope Mazda is well under that mark!
04-26-2002, 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by FritzMan
Yup, it's starting to sound like the Evo is getting up there in coin. From a performance stand-point probably worth it though.
I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that.
What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...
Yup, it's starting to sound like the Evo is getting up there in coin. From a performance stand-point probably worth it though.
I agree with all your points Grimace, except I don't care for the Celica's styling. The S is nice but just a little too much coin for no HID, LSD, or traction control. I'm dying of curiosity to see if they make any changes for '03. Typically Honda doesn't make dramatic changes so quickly but I've read the sales have been less than impressive, and they are showing off that "Concept RSX". It's not like they don't have these parts developed as they're all available in Japan. If I had to bet though, they'll probably come out in typical Honda-exciting fashion with a new color or something lame like that.
What about the Mazda6? Nice looking, totally functional package (I like the 5 door), 220hp V6 is a good starting point, and they'll have a sport version with 17" rims. For me, the only real knock against it is the FWD. From a price standpoint, it will help predict the RX8 placement. There's no way Mazda will overlap two sedan models. I imagine Mazda will start the 6 at $25K Cdn (right above the Protege), and a fully equipped version will reach $34 Cdn. That will make it compete with the Altima, Camry, and Accord. The RX-8 will then start with a base version around $35-$36K Cdn up to low $40K. The RX-8 pricing will be targeted against the likes of Nissan 350Z, Inifinty G35, and entry level 3 series Bimmers and C class Benzes. I'll bet I'm not far off...
The 6 is very sexy for a sedan; I forgot to include it in the list! I read a review in World of Wheels (a canadian mag for those south of the border) of the 4-cylinder 6 with the sport suspension and 17" wheels (available in that configuration in Europe) and they really liked the new 4-banger, almost more than the 6-cylinder. Handling was improved with less weight over the front axle. I'd have to drive both, of course! I saw the 6 at the autoshow in Toronto, and I definately liked it. (Unfortunetly, the RX-8 was at the show only one day, and I missed it, so I haven't seen the yellow one in public).
I bet you're pretty close on the pricing too. As long as its not much higher than that, I could justify a new RX-8 to myself easily.
Considering a RSX Type S is $31000, and a Celica GTS is in the $30's, an extra $4-5 grand isn't bad considering the RX-8 will (probably) be a much nicer car (IMHO).
04-29-2002, 08:03 AM
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I was wondering if handling would be better with the 4 cylinder. It would make sense that it would. I've read that MazdaSpeed Mazda6 model could pressurize the 4 cylinder instead of the V6. It would be nice if the sport package and airbag options did come with the I4. Still, 160 hp from 2.3 liters is not too impressive, considering Honda is getting the same HP with their 2 liter engines on reg gas. I'm amost wondering if it's been detuned or understated to avoid competing with the V6.
What I find most impressive is that Mazda is committed to class-leading handling with features like a double wishbone suspension up front on their 6 and RX-8. Unlike others who have resorted to strut design in the interest of packaging and profit?
If I were to get an RSX, it would be the base. It seems the 6 speed is having grinding issues (like the S2000) and mis-shifts seem to be fairly easy to come by, along with a popped engine. Saving 150+ lbs on the base (50 lbs on the Premium - b/c the sunroof?) would be beneficial, and apparently the base 2 liter can be uncorked to release quite a bit of power... The 7K savings should find you at least 30 NA HP while still using reg gas, and install a LSD, better tires, and better suspension...
What I find most impressive is that Mazda is committed to class-leading handling with features like a double wishbone suspension up front on their 6 and RX-8. Unlike others who have resorted to strut design in the interest of packaging and profit?
If I were to get an RSX, it would be the base. It seems the 6 speed is having grinding issues (like the S2000) and mis-shifts seem to be fairly easy to come by, along with a popped engine. Saving 150+ lbs on the base (50 lbs on the Premium - b/c the sunroof?) would be beneficial, and apparently the base 2 liter can be uncorked to release quite a bit of power... The 7K savings should find you at least 30 NA HP while still using reg gas, and install a LSD, better tires, and better suspension...
04-29-2002, 04:40 PM
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FritzMan, you need to have low end torque in sedan such as 6... 100 HP per liter engine would be out of place there... so 163 from 2.0 should be really nice, add a turbo and there you go...zoom, zoom...
Mazda now can look into Ford Mondeo (which is class leading handler, sells in Europe) and take few points from them... they said sporty models might be on par with Modeo's handling..
Too bad Ford USA cant find space in their lineup for Mondeo ST220, that thing owns... instead, we get crappy, plastic Taurus
Grimace - I like Celica's styling too... and I know everyone has been saying that it will grow old soon, but it still has to happen and car has been around for 3 yrs, it is aggresive enough and ahead of its time, I doubt it will grow old that fast
Mazda now can look into Ford Mondeo (which is class leading handler, sells in Europe) and take few points from them... they said sporty models might be on par with Modeo's handling..
Too bad Ford USA cant find space in their lineup for Mondeo ST220, that thing owns... instead, we get crappy, plastic Taurus
Grimace - I like Celica's styling too... and I know everyone has been saying that it will grow old soon, but it still has to happen and car has been around for 3 yrs, it is aggresive enough and ahead of its time, I doubt it will grow old that fast
04-30-2002, 06:20 AM
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Here's a new write-up on the 6 from a good Canadian review site:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tl/03mazda6.htm.
Turns out I was close in predicting the starting point. The RX8 is looking more and more like a $35K Cdn. base vehicle...
Actually, the new 6 has a base engine with 2.3 liters of displacement and has variable valve timing and lift duration and a 2 stage induction system. Pumping out 160 HP and approx the same lb/ft with that kind of technology and displacement is a little low. Numbers like 180-190 would be more typical.
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/tl/03mazda6.htm.
Turns out I was close in predicting the starting point. The RX8 is looking more and more like a $35K Cdn. base vehicle...
Actually, the new 6 has a base engine with 2.3 liters of displacement and has variable valve timing and lift duration and a 2 stage induction system. Pumping out 160 HP and approx the same lb/ft with that kind of technology and displacement is a little low. Numbers like 180-190 would be more typical.