View Poll Results: At what mileage did your Engine fail?
Model Yr 04 with 0 to 20K miles
3
10.34%
Model Yr 04 with 21 to 40K miles
8
27.59%
Model Yr 04 with 41 to 60K miles
5
17.24%
Model Yr 04 with 61 to 80K miles
4
13.79%
Model Yr 04 with over 81K miles
2
6.90%
Model Yr 05 or later with 0 to 20K miles
1
3.45%
Model Yr 05 or later with 21 to 40K miles
3
10.34%
Model Yr 05 or later with 41 to 60K miles
1
3.45%
Model Yr 05 or later with 61 to 80K miles
0
0%
Model Yr 05 or later with over 81K miles
2
6.90%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll
At what Mileage did your Engine fail?
05-02-2008, 01:04 PM
#76
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without correlation to the denominator (total sum of cars), this poll is about as useful as someon stating there are 231 bad Apples in the town of Nantucket. mmmkay.....
Not to mention sadly raptor is one of the "members" that has an agenda when based off his previous insidious posts.
I remembered seeing someone by the name of Truedelta that was collecting car stats too.
Not to mention sadly raptor is one of the "members" that has an agenda when based off his previous insidious posts.
I remembered seeing someone by the name of Truedelta that was collecting car stats too.
Just assume the total number of cars is the total number of RX8club members. If anything this errs on the favorible side. If they are a memeber the chance is pretty great they would post here about it.
05-02-2008, 01:19 PM
#78
Destroying Threads
mine was an 07 AT rx8, got engine replaced after 125miles, then again @ 7000 miles, sold car @ 12k mile,
new 05 rx8 MT, never replaced engine, 13k mile
new 05 rx8 MT, never replaced engine, 13k mile
05-02-2008, 01:24 PM
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05-02-2008, 01:33 PM
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How does applying flawed statistical data possibly offer any solution?
And even if the data weren't flawed, what possible solution do you hope to achieve?
05-02-2008, 01:40 PM
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05-02-2008, 01:42 PM
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05-02-2008, 01:45 PM
#84
Grand Chancellor
It is already quite well known that early 04 and autos are the main contributors to engine failures. I do not know what else one hope to achieve with polls like these. Does it show ownership maintenance? Modifications? 
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
05-02-2008, 01:50 PM
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It is already quite well known that early 04 and autos are the main contributors to engine failures. I do not know what else one hope to achieve with polls like these. Does it show ownership maintenance? Modifications?
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
I don't see "blown engine" posts on the other forums for 350z, Mustang etc etc.
Let me clarify that last statement as I don't want it to sound like I am bashing the rotary. I am just saying if our "data" is that skewed and misinformed I would expect others to be just as skewed, and likely to have threads for problems that are not problems as well.
Last edited by Shoafb; 05-02-2008 at 02:34 PM.
05-02-2008, 03:21 PM
#87
Grand Chancellor
One can believe what one wants to believe. If one is already preconceived that rotary is a bad motor designed by a german numbnut that spent too much time at Oktoberfest then you can never change one's perception. My post stands about this flawed poll to be nothing but trying to promote a hidden set of agenda.
The 350z has its fair share of problems. IIRC there's a class action lawsuit against Nissan on tire feathering due to bad suspension design. The recall for the quantity of new Accords affected by bad transmission probably out-numbers all of the RX-8 total production. So what does that tell you? Nothing. That Accord is still a reliable car.
So it comes back to perception. Justify as you may for this "data". Any thinking person will know that this data holds no value. Much like my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket.
Now there will be people who comes in on a forum to post opinions with a hidden agenda. Likely from an inferiority complex one way or trying to prove their buying choice is better etc. We call them trolls. I suppose it's like a Lexus owner going into a BMW forum harking on BMW's unreliability....
OK I need to visit an EVO forum and laugh at their small trunk pace.
The 350z has its fair share of problems. IIRC there's a class action lawsuit against Nissan on tire feathering due to bad suspension design. The recall for the quantity of new Accords affected by bad transmission probably out-numbers all of the RX-8 total production. So what does that tell you? Nothing. That Accord is still a reliable car.
So it comes back to perception. Justify as you may for this "data". Any thinking person will know that this data holds no value. Much like my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket.
Now there will be people who comes in on a forum to post opinions with a hidden agenda. Likely from an inferiority complex one way or trying to prove their buying choice is better etc. We call them trolls. I suppose it's like a Lexus owner going into a BMW forum harking on BMW's unreliability....
OK I need to visit an EVO forum and laugh at their small trunk pace.
05-02-2008, 04:18 PM
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One can believe what one wants to believe. If one is already preconceived that rotary is a bad motor designed by a german numbnut that spent too much time at Oktoberfest then you can never change one's perception. My post stands about this flawed poll to be nothing but trying to promote a hidden set of agenda.
The 350z has its fair share of problems. IIRC there's a class action lawsuit against Nissan on tire feathering due to bad suspension design. The recall for the quantity of new Accords affected by bad transmission probably out-numbers all of the RX-8 total production. So what does that tell you? Nothing. That Accord is still a reliable car.
So it comes back to perception. Justify as you may for this "data". Any thinking person will know that this data holds no value. Much like my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket.
Now there will be people who comes in on a forum to post opinions with a hidden agenda. Likely from an inferiority complex one way or trying to prove their buying choice is better etc. We call them trolls. I suppose it's like a Lexus owner going into a BMW forum harking on BMW's unreliability....
OK I need to visit an EVO forum and laugh at their small trunk pace.
The 350z has its fair share of problems. IIRC there's a class action lawsuit against Nissan on tire feathering due to bad suspension design. The recall for the quantity of new Accords affected by bad transmission probably out-numbers all of the RX-8 total production. So what does that tell you? Nothing. That Accord is still a reliable car.
So it comes back to perception. Justify as you may for this "data". Any thinking person will know that this data holds no value. Much like my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket.
Now there will be people who comes in on a forum to post opinions with a hidden agenda. Likely from an inferiority complex one way or trying to prove their buying choice is better etc. We call them trolls. I suppose it's like a Lexus owner going into a BMW forum harking on BMW's unreliability....
OK I need to visit an EVO forum and laugh at their small trunk pace.
There is no hidden agenda.... my engine blew up... what else do you want?
350z and Hondas had their problems as well, and you will find folks posting about those problems on their websites. I suppose those problems where not real as well since they where posted on the internet and where most likely rx8 guys coming in to make their cars look bad.
Last edited by Shoafb; 05-02-2008 at 04:22 PM.
05-02-2008, 04:47 PM
#89
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Thread Starter
At present we are flying blind with occasional reports of engine failure. We can't see trends, we can't see groups we are blind.
If we can collected date on the failure rates among different transmission, different years, different mileages, etc... We can at least identify if a particular car is more or less at risk.
Granted this will be a relatively small sampling but it may grow large enough to prove some significance.
I myself would like to see if this issue is concentrated in the 04 AT cars. If it is those of us not in that group could rest easier knowing that our cars are not especially at risk. If you owe a car that is in a high risk category you may want to take precautions such as pre-mixing or seafoming your engine.
It would be similar to screening risk factors for cancer or hart attacks, it would allow you to change behavior to give your self the best fighting changes of a normal life. Also if your not at risk you could go back to enjoying your life(car) with out worrying about potential failure.
Would you not agree that this is information you would rather have then not?
If we can collected date on the failure rates among different transmission, different years, different mileages, etc... We can at least identify if a particular car is more or less at risk.
Granted this will be a relatively small sampling but it may grow large enough to prove some significance.
I myself would like to see if this issue is concentrated in the 04 AT cars. If it is those of us not in that group could rest easier knowing that our cars are not especially at risk. If you owe a car that is in a high risk category you may want to take precautions such as pre-mixing or seafoming your engine.
It would be similar to screening risk factors for cancer or hart attacks, it would allow you to change behavior to give your self the best fighting changes of a normal life. Also if your not at risk you could go back to enjoying your life(car) with out worrying about potential failure.
Would you not agree that this is information you would rather have then not?
I'm a little lost at the point of this thread. Aside from creating paranoia amongst current owners and prospective owners - where in this is a solution?
So let's say the data (use that term loosely) reflects engines are going in the neighborhood of 55K...then what?
Should every owner hit the panic button at 55K?
Should every owner start saving their pennies now for a blown engine that may never come?
Should every owner trade their car in at 54K even though it never had any issues?
The list of paranoid questions can never end...
So what is the constructive solution???
So let's say the data (use that term loosely) reflects engines are going in the neighborhood of 55K...then what?
Should every owner hit the panic button at 55K?
Should every owner start saving their pennies now for a blown engine that may never come?
Should every owner trade their car in at 54K even though it never had any issues?
The list of paranoid questions can never end...
So what is the constructive solution???
05-02-2008, 05:10 PM
#90
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Thread Starter
You complain about the statistical accuracy of this poll then quote hear say and point to the 04 AT as the main body of failed engines. May I see you stats on this? Cherry picking statistic when they suit your needs is no way to sway people.
Now it has been a while since I took statics and my current position unfortunately does not allow me to exercise these old skills but this is what I was hoping to see.
We have a portion of the RX-8 population here, probably the highest concentration available so it is logically that our best shoot at some answers is here. We know how many people are on this board and we know how many cars were sold each year. As we collect data based on these facts and our sample size we should be able to apply a margin of error to the numbers.
Polls are ran all the time on small sampling of the larger groups obviously the larger the sampling the more accurate the number but the question is at what point does the sample size present statistics that have a error margin small enough to make the data useful?
May I also point out that you sound a little paranoid. What "hidden" agenda would I have for such a survey except to arm my self with the best information I can acquire to help preserve my car?
Now it has been a while since I took statics and my current position unfortunately does not allow me to exercise these old skills but this is what I was hoping to see.
We have a portion of the RX-8 population here, probably the highest concentration available so it is logically that our best shoot at some answers is here. We know how many people are on this board and we know how many cars were sold each year. As we collect data based on these facts and our sample size we should be able to apply a margin of error to the numbers.
Polls are ran all the time on small sampling of the larger groups obviously the larger the sampling the more accurate the number but the question is at what point does the sample size present statistics that have a error margin small enough to make the data useful?
May I also point out that you sound a little paranoid. What "hidden" agenda would I have for such a survey except to arm my self with the best information I can acquire to help preserve my car?
It is already quite well known that early 04 and autos are the main contributors to engine failures. I do not know what else one hope to achieve with polls like these. Does it show ownership maintenance? Modifications?
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
Spewing flawed statistics as facts is a dangerous thing. Magnify it with hidden agendas and you have voila! Propaganda.
Now back to my 231 bad Apples in Nantucket....
05-02-2008, 05:32 PM
#91
We have a portion of the RX-8 population here, probably the highest concentration available so it is logically that our best shoot at some answers is here. We know how many people are on this board and we know how many cars were sold each year. As we collect data based on these facts and our sample size we should be able to apply a margin of error to the numbers.
Polls are ran all the time on small sampling of the larger groups obviously the larger the sampling the more accurate the number but the question is at what point does the sample size present statistics that have a error margin small enough to make the data useful?
Polls are ran all the time on small sampling of the larger groups obviously the larger the sampling the more accurate the number but the question is at what point does the sample size present statistics that have a error margin small enough to make the data useful?
No, the problem is that these "polls" are not drawn from what's called a representative sample of the whole RX-8 population, i.e. all the people in the world who have RX-8s. All this "poll" can tell you is how people voted on this poll, but the info cannot be used to draw conclusions about the RX-8 population at large.
You can have statistically valid polls using a relatively small number of people, but in order to do that, the people must be selected randomly from all 8 owners; you can't say "ok, everyone who wants to be in the poll, raise your hand." What's more, the group should reflect the usage habits of all 8 owners. So… if 4% of all 8 owners race/autocross, then 4% of the people in the poll should too. And this would be true for all possible affecting variables, i.e. percentage who've modded their cars, percentage driving in hot/humid climates, percentage who follow Mazda's oil recommendation, etc.
If 2% of the RX-8 population mod their cars, and 38% of the people who vote here mod their cars, you can't extrapolate results to all RX-8s, because modding your car could be a factor leading to engine replacement.
So again, the problem is not small sample size; it's a sample not representative of all 8 owners.
05-02-2008, 06:23 PM
#92
Grand Chancellor
^ Exactly.
No one here is sticking their head in the sand. From the buying inquiries, most answers are to get 05+ models. Not it has to be manual, premix with Idemitsu at 4oz, 5w30 synth, build no. after X years, must not live in Vegas or Florida... forget about Singapore as they are far too hot, un-modified, driverless, Shell V-Power 93 etc.... Shall you add this to the poll as well? Can you see how ridiculous this gets?
When I was out looking for an RX-8 I knew to stay clear of 04s. Same with the 911 964 models. Stay away from 1980 and 1990 thanks to disintegrating flywheel. Similarly when I was looking for an M3, stay away from 01/02 S54 engines as they go KABOOM. Apart from getting the mfg defect logs, this is good enough.
Hence I don't see the reason for this witch hunt other than some sort of vendetta. But hey if I happen to have bought a Scion tC because I am couldn't afford the rx-8 and feel a bit small, I can see how enjoyable this poll can be.
Anyhow this has been quite entertaining for my slowwwww friday. Time to go home. Can't wait to jump into my 8 and take on the twisties.
No one here is sticking their head in the sand. From the buying inquiries, most answers are to get 05+ models. Not it has to be manual, premix with Idemitsu at 4oz, 5w30 synth, build no. after X years, must not live in Vegas or Florida... forget about Singapore as they are far too hot, un-modified, driverless, Shell V-Power 93 etc.... Shall you add this to the poll as well? Can you see how ridiculous this gets?
When I was out looking for an RX-8 I knew to stay clear of 04s. Same with the 911 964 models. Stay away from 1980 and 1990 thanks to disintegrating flywheel. Similarly when I was looking for an M3, stay away from 01/02 S54 engines as they go KABOOM. Apart from getting the mfg defect logs, this is good enough.
Hence I don't see the reason for this witch hunt other than some sort of vendetta. But hey if I happen to have bought a Scion tC because I am couldn't afford the rx-8 and feel a bit small, I can see how enjoyable this poll can be.
Anyhow this has been quite entertaining for my slowwwww friday. Time to go home. Can't wait to jump into my 8 and take on the twisties.
Last edited by delhi; 05-02-2008 at 06:30 PM.
05-02-2008, 06:24 PM
#93
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At present we are flying blind with occasional reports of engine failure. We can't see trends, we can't see groups we are blind.
If we can collected date on the failure rates among different transmission, different years, different mileages, etc... We can at least identify if a particular car is more or less at risk.
Granted this will be a relatively small sampling but it may grow large enough to prove some significance.
I myself would like to see if this issue is concentrated in the 04 AT cars. If it is those of us not in that group could rest easier knowing that our cars are not especially at risk. If you owe a car that is in a high risk category you may want to take precautions such as pre-mixing or seafoming your engine.
It would be similar to screening risk factors for cancer or hart attacks, it would allow you to change behavior to give your self the best fighting changes of a normal life. Also if your not at risk you could go back to enjoying your life(car) with out worrying about potential failure.
Would you not agree that this is information you would rather have then not?
If we can collected date on the failure rates among different transmission, different years, different mileages, etc... We can at least identify if a particular car is more or less at risk.
Granted this will be a relatively small sampling but it may grow large enough to prove some significance.
I myself would like to see if this issue is concentrated in the 04 AT cars. If it is those of us not in that group could rest easier knowing that our cars are not especially at risk. If you owe a car that is in a high risk category you may want to take precautions such as pre-mixing or seafoming your engine.
It would be similar to screening risk factors for cancer or hart attacks, it would allow you to change behavior to give your self the best fighting changes of a normal life. Also if your not at risk you could go back to enjoying your life(car) with out worrying about potential failure.
Would you not agree that this is information you would rather have then not?
IMO, there's little point in analyzing failure rates. Here's why:
1. This is a 13B. Mazda has been producing this block in various forms for more than 20 years. There's LOTS of information and great advice for what to and what not to do from competent engine builders. What was good for the 13B, 13B-T, 13B-REW, RENESIS is basically the same. Have oil lubrication about 250:1, warm the engine before hard acceleration, in the words of Racing Beat drive the car hard "regularly", perform de-carbonizing cleaning, check oil level regularly, use at least 30 weight oil, etc...
2. The most failure rates are probably from engines that were in hot climates and were receiving a lack of oil (early flash MOP profiles), or those that didn't drive the car hard enough to burn away the carbon / or perform de-carbonizing treatments. I fully think it safe to say that Mazda dropped the ball on not educating their dealers, and therefore their customers, and also on the MOP profile.
IMO, any owner from any year that wants their rotary to last should religiously follow all in Step 1. If the owner isn't willing to do those things, the rotary probably isn't for them. The hardest part is determining if Mazda is in fact providing proper lubrication. Racing Beat was the first to give us a clue that something was amiss when they released their MOP upgrade early in the game. Now I think after this recall it's a safe bet Mazda is getting closer if not at the optimal mixture...but in my case I still premix.
05-03-2008, 11:00 AM
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I've Had Enough Of This! You Guys Are Idiots! Someone Starts A Poll Regarding Failed Engines And Everyone Gets Mad Because They Don't Want To Have To Think About Their Engine Going Even Though There Is An Epidemic Of These Engines Going, (when You Open A Facility Just To Reman Renesis Engines, That's An Epidemic).
Then Someone States Other Manufacturers Have Their Problems And That Nissan Had A Class Action Regarding Tires. Yes They Did, For Something As Small As Tires And You Know What, My Brother Has A Z And Got New Tires From Nissan. You're Saying Z Owners Can Come Together On Something As Small As Tires But Us 8 Owners Can't Come Together On An Engine, The Most Important Part Of Any Vehicle. That's Just Dumb. Mazda Na Makes Us Use 5w20 While The Rest Of The World Uses 5w30 Just To Pass Emmisions At The Life Expectancy Of Our Motors And That's Not Worth A Class Action.
No It's Not, Why, Because Last Year All The Problems Of The 8 Were Because Of 04s. Now It's 04s And 05s. Next Year It'll Be 04, 05 And 06s, Etc. Cause Rest Assured, Even Though You May Believe Mazda Did Some Magic Reflash On Your 06 Or 07 Therefore Rendering Your Engine Immune, When It Comes To The Rotary New Engines Are Like Death And Taxes You Can't Escape, Just Ask Wesley Snipes.
Then Someone States Other Manufacturers Have Their Problems And That Nissan Had A Class Action Regarding Tires. Yes They Did, For Something As Small As Tires And You Know What, My Brother Has A Z And Got New Tires From Nissan. You're Saying Z Owners Can Come Together On Something As Small As Tires But Us 8 Owners Can't Come Together On An Engine, The Most Important Part Of Any Vehicle. That's Just Dumb. Mazda Na Makes Us Use 5w20 While The Rest Of The World Uses 5w30 Just To Pass Emmisions At The Life Expectancy Of Our Motors And That's Not Worth A Class Action.
No It's Not, Why, Because Last Year All The Problems Of The 8 Were Because Of 04s. Now It's 04s And 05s. Next Year It'll Be 04, 05 And 06s, Etc. Cause Rest Assured, Even Though You May Believe Mazda Did Some Magic Reflash On Your 06 Or 07 Therefore Rendering Your Engine Immune, When It Comes To The Rotary New Engines Are Like Death And Taxes You Can't Escape, Just Ask Wesley Snipes.
05-03-2008, 11:51 AM
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I've Had Enough Of This! You Guys Are Idiots! Someone Starts A Poll Regarding Failed Engines And Everyone Gets Mad Because They Don't Want To Have To Think About Their Engine Going Even Though There Is An Epidemic Of These Engines Going, (when You Open A Facility Just To Reman Renesis Engines, That's An Epidemic).
Then Someone States Other Manufacturers Have Their Problems And That Nissan Had A Class Action Regarding Tires. Yes They Did, For Something As Small As Tires And You Know What, My Brother Has A Z And Got New Tires From Nissan. You're Saying Z Owners Can Come Together On Something As Small As Tires But Us 8 Owners Can't Come Together On An Engine, The Most Important Part Of Any Vehicle. That's Just Dumb. Mazda Na Makes Us Use 5w20 While The Rest Of The World Uses 5w30 Just To Pass Emmisions At The Life Expectancy Of Our Motors And That's Not Worth A Class Action.
No It's Not, Why, Because Last Year All The Problems Of The 8 Were Because Of 04s. Now It's 04s And 05s. Next Year It'll Be 04, 05 And 06s, Etc. Cause Rest Assured, Even Though You May Believe Mazda Did Some Magic Reflash On Your 06 Or 07 Therefore Rendering Your Engine Immune, When It Comes To The Rotary New Engines Are Like Death And Taxes You Can't Escape, Just Ask Wesley Snipes.
Then Someone States Other Manufacturers Have Their Problems And That Nissan Had A Class Action Regarding Tires. Yes They Did, For Something As Small As Tires And You Know What, My Brother Has A Z And Got New Tires From Nissan. You're Saying Z Owners Can Come Together On Something As Small As Tires But Us 8 Owners Can't Come Together On An Engine, The Most Important Part Of Any Vehicle. That's Just Dumb. Mazda Na Makes Us Use 5w20 While The Rest Of The World Uses 5w30 Just To Pass Emmisions At The Life Expectancy Of Our Motors And That's Not Worth A Class Action.
No It's Not, Why, Because Last Year All The Problems Of The 8 Were Because Of 04s. Now It's 04s And 05s. Next Year It'll Be 04, 05 And 06s, Etc. Cause Rest Assured, Even Though You May Believe Mazda Did Some Magic Reflash On Your 06 Or 07 Therefore Rendering Your Engine Immune, When It Comes To The Rotary New Engines Are Like Death And Taxes You Can't Escape, Just Ask Wesley Snipes.
Agreed, why we have to fight over this is crazy. If your engine goes your not allowed to be upset by this or post about it
I guess the Renisis reman. factory is being put up by some Scion owners as well?
05-03-2008, 11:55 AM
#98
Metatron
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.......If your engine goes your not allowed to be upset by this or post about it........
Who said you couldn't get upset or post?
Just keep it civil - some of us may NOT be idiots (present company excluded, of course)
S
Who said you couldn't get upset or post?
Just keep it civil - some of us may NOT be idiots (present company excluded, of course)
S
05-03-2008, 04:22 PM
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Edit: I don't care anymore. Everyone feel free to spread the paranoia. All engines are failing prematurely. There's no hope. The sky is falling...the sky is falling.
Last edited by Red Devil; 05-03-2008 at 04:26 PM.
05-03-2008, 04:32 PM
#100
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I agree with your statement above though that Mazda did drop the ball on educating buyers about the rotary, and that with the care you stated they will likely have no problems. I would have de-carbed every 5k if Mazda had told me to. But on the other side of the coin most consumers would walk away once you listed all of that that needs to be done and likely it would be the death nail of the rotary.
Maybe if they built in free maintenance to do these things for the first few years that would go a long way to prevent this.