Aratinga

I'm no automotive engineer or anything, but comparing the gas mileage of a 350Z to that of an RX-8 is comparing apples to oranges... errr, pistons to rotors. Totally different engine design! Heck, why not compare displacements? At 1.3L, the rotary *should* be getting 35mpg at least, right?

I have always been enamored of the radically different and yet elegantly simple design of the rotary engine, and I'm more than happy to tolerate its unique idiosyncrasies (less than stellar gas mileage and the remote chance of flooding if I forget to warm it up) in order to enjoy its intoxicating smoothness and 9K redline.

Everything in life is a tradeoff. Choosing a rotary engine is a worthwhile one, IMNSHO.

zerobanger

when you buy a 350Z and get an interior that looks like a 10 year old designed it with his first lego set, where does that leave you considering the Z costs more than an rx-8.

sunlightred8

MY FIRST POST!!! new member today!! so, this might come to help some of you that posted here.

http://www.globemegawheels.com/news/...utomotive.html

JimW

My only issue is the MPG otherwise the car is flawless and It is well worth it to me to put up with the low MPGs. The other problems(ratlling,flooding,blown engines) are a small minority as is with ALL CARS! No matter what car you buy, there is a remote chance you will get a lemon, so there is somewhat of a risk, but my opinion the 8 is well worth it. don't let some remote minor issues deter you from buying and otherwise excellent sports car. Your options might be more open as well. For me I needed the 4 doors and roomy back seats or else it was sedan city, and this cars delivers the sporting nature and handling of a sport car that a sedan does not quite give you. Good luck!

Raevik

Alright.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input and support on these issues. After becoming intoxicated with the vehicle, I've decided to go for it.

I simply won't forgive myself if I don't. It was so nice to drive, I have to have it. I've lusted for an RX-7 all this time, but the timing was all wrong for me. Now, the timing is much better, and there's a new kid in town.

Come Saturday:
<closing eyes and stepping off aforementioned cliff>

Haze

I came out of driving a brilliant Maxima for 180,000 miles and ten years. I love the Z car, but it's mielage isn't that much better than the 8 . . . 2 miles per gallon, and if you drive it hard, it will get worse mileage too. However, it is better in MPG. It is IMHO probably a faster car by a little, but it is a 2 seater not a 4 seater, and the Mazda is a more real 4 seater than most things out there that purport to be 4 seat coupes. I have driven 6 footers in the back for over an hour with no complaints, even when I asked for complaints, I got none. The other thing that I think the 8 does better than the Z is handle. The small size and weight of the engine permits a center of gravity that is lower and more central than other cars with the possible exception of super expensive mid-engine exotics. In the end the RX 8 is not a direct competitor to the Z. The Z is a purpose built two seat sports car. The 8 is a sporty four seat coupe, and it falls more into the Grand Touring category than a sports car, which gives it the practicality of a day to day driver. That's all just my opinion.

MMGDC

The Rx-8 is currently my only car, so by default it's my commuter and daily driver. I have a long (50+) mile commute, part fast running freeway, part bumper to bumper stop and go. I average 19 MPG.

I have 4000 miles on my 8 and have never flooded the car, nor do I use elaborate warm up proceedures. I get in the car, I start the car, I wait 10 seconds, and I drive off. I check the oil every 1000 miles or so, and change it every 3000, but I'd do that for any car I valued.

Snow tires are a must if you ever plan on driving in winter weather conditions.

The car has never failed to start, it's never run poorly, it's never even flashed a CEL or other idiot light at me. It's reliability has been flawless thus far. When it comes to reliability, some disgruntled posters make it sound like the 8 is a 1974 Fiat, but that certainly hasn't been my experience.

For the price, I'm delighted with all the 8 brings to the table. The only drawback is the subpar mileage, but for me, the loss of 2-3 MPG (when compared to similarly performing cars) is well worth it.

khoney

I've been a rotary owner for 17 years, but I must confess that all the flooding talk has even me paranoid. I had my car in for service, and when I went to pick it up, some lady went to go get it and bring it to me (silly, because it was parked in a lot not 50 feet away). Anyway, she had no idea how to drive it and stalled it as she pulled out. I winced, with horrific visions of a flooded engine flashing before my eyes. She started it again, then needed to put it in reverse, because she was near a fence. Whoops, had it in 6th gear! Stalled again! Started one more time, then figure out the reverse vs. 6th gear thing, and managed to bring it to my feet.

I personally have not flooded in 10,500 miles, even in cold weather. I do follow the recommended start and stop procedures. My mileage is between 18-20 miles per gallon no matter how or where I drive it.

I love this car, and so will you.

P.S. - the one thing I will say about flooding is that rotaries can be very difficult to un-flood. I had to do it once on my 2nd gen RX-7, and it was an ordeal. However, my RX-7 has a leaky injector, which doesn't help matters any.

DaveT

Go for it Llathos.
I had my doubts until your last post. Your use of the words "intoxicated with this vehicle" means you can stick a fork in it, 'cause you are done.
Enjoy.
Post back when you take her home.

rjenk

Your point has been made by many.

The only problem with that is that in all marketing material and in print reviews the car is stated to get 18/25. Yes, the MPG is calculated by EPA testing but Mazda markets the RENESIS as being much more fuel efficient engine. And yes, the EPA also states a range for fuel economy based on how the person drives but when I have both treated the car with white gloves and also driven it hard and no matter how it is driven it still produces 13 to 14 MPG, which is outside even the stated range, there is a problem.

Yes the 8 is a sports car and yes the mileage will not equal that of a hybrid but when the vehicle does not meet fuel ranges stated by the EPA and marketed by Mazda it makes difficult for an owner to not feel like they have been cheated, especially when others are having similar experiences and Mazda ignores the problem.

BillK

Actually, I'll have to disagree with you there. Mazda NA's customer service reps readily admit the company is investigating technical solutions for the flooding issue; if it wasn't even more widespread than it seems here they would never admit there was an issue in the first place.

I agree that if you follow the warm up procedure and always make sure to not shut off your car until it's warmed up, you wil have a very low chance of flooding; however if you do not and shut off the engine cold, your chances of flooding are apparently reasonably high.

I will post about it in a different thread, but an email I received from Mazda earlier today states that stalling the engine should not be a concern; the flooding supposedly only occurs when the engine is shut off cold and is allowed to sit for awhile.

That still doesn't solve the valet parking issue, but it does reassure me somewhat, as does the fact that they are actively working on an engineering fix to the problem...

no_pistons

gee, so,
1. does it mean I DO NOT NEED to warm up if i m gonna drive for at leat 5 mins?
2. whats the range of "low tempeture"? (i'm living in California...)
3. from my understanding, we have to warm up because of a.low tempture b. short distance drivings only?


if 1. is true, the flooding issue is very minor to me:D

actually i am shopping for a "small" and "useful" car. RX8 used to be my very first choice! however, the flooding issue and MPG did scare me away(*** i didnt really undertand the situation). minicopper S showed up later. but hey, it's "cute" car not a "cool" car... so i kept searching. i found out that the Acura TL and G35 are nice ones too. however, they look like a "daddy" or "grandpa" car to me (u know, i'm young :D ) furthermore, the interior of G35 is...err... does it worth 30k+ for that cheap and ugly design? the MPG isnt good either (well, it has a big V6 thuogh...)at the same time, Mazda 6 and 3 appeared in my list...they both have nice interior and exterior.... but weak performance...later i saw subaru's NEW legacy GT with 250hp and nice interior but a very ugly bumper (the US. ver) even though its not a small car, the value is very good...

Finally, i'm back with RX8 again:D i am looking forward for the 05" RX8 and i really hope to become a RX8 driver within a few months!
cheers!

P.S. the posts in this forum has really high quality of context

SCiMMiA

#1 IS true. Low temps = below freezing. You always want to warm it up (just regular driving unless it's a super-quick trip), even if it isn't cold out. And yes, short distance driving is really your only flooding concern.

Enjoy!

red_rx8_red_int

My 8 was at the dealer recently for a very minor warrenty repair (took less than 10 minutes), and I asked the tech about the flooding. He said almost no flooding problems from owners (note this is a very high volume dealer), but a lot from the transport companies. It seems that unloading and offloading to and from railcars and car trucks has caused a lot of flooding. But the main thing I want to report is how the dealer gets these cars started. He said they remove and clean the plugs, the plugs are easily accessable if you remove the right front tire and bend back a plastic wheel well part and use an extension on the wrench, and all four plugs are accessed easy, he cautioned to make sure you replace the leading and trailing plugs correctly. After the plugs are removed, you turn the engine over a couple of times to blow out whatever is there, and replace the plugs, and the cars always start. This is good news. I have never flooded my car, but knowing that it's not too hard to remedy, I will take an hour or so to remove the plugs and so forth, and not have to tow it to the dealer.

SCiMMiA

The right (passenger) front tire?

Blue87Sport

I got you beat khoney. I've been driving a rotary as a daily driver for 23 years (1st and 2nd gen RX-7s). I've flooded the 2nd gen twice before I found out why (this was in the days before the Internet so I didn't have resources like this forum). Both times were to back it out the garage to wash it. Now that I know not to do that, flooding is no longer a concern. The rotary engine is not fragile but does have its quirks. My 2nd gen has 170K miles and will run to redline as strong as it did the day I bought it. I expect no less from the Renesis. Once you're familiar with it, it will be far more reliable and cheaper to maintain than any comparable car.

Another way to think about mileage is to think cost/mile. You can use 87 octane in a RX-8 for about 20 cents less per gallon than 91 octane. That's about 3 bucks per tank. Factor that in and you get about 15% improvement in cost/mile. Doesn't do anything about the range but it can ease the pain in the wallet.

Get this car and you won't regret it.

zerobanger

My window sticker said 18/24 not 18/25. Go beyond that, it says in small print "The majority of these cars will get between 15-20 in the city and 20-28 in the highway depending on driving habits and conditions". That wasn't the exact wordage, but its similar to that.

I would think that anyone that gets 13 MPG is living his life at 9000 RPm or has a problem with the car. I think less than 16-17 MPG is the vast minority of us.

Baller

Then don't buy the damn thing!!!!

RX-GR8

im getting 12-13 city and i have redlined the engine twice since ive owned my car. i took it in for the oil pan replacement and i mentioned the MPG and was told its probably due winter gas. bring it back in the summer if its still bad. only problem with that theory is the MPG was just as bad last summer. it was ok when i first got the car 15-16 MPG city but it has gotten worse not better.

sferrett

Whether or not you want to stress about it is completely up to you. In my opinion, the more you worry/stress about it the more likely you are to experience a problem because your behaviour will be subtly modified by your worry.

I have 8800 miles on mine, I get around 17-18mpg consistently (San Diego, DSC on, mainly no AC) (unless I'm pushing it really hard, where I have measured lower) and I have never flooded it. I spent a week shutting it off and stalling it cold a couple of weeks ago to see if I could get it to flood and I could not - I still say you should follow the short-trip procedure if you're going to be shutting down cold but I think that there's far too much paranoia being spread around about flooding and gas mileage. Sure some folks are having an issue, and some had an issue and got rid of the car - but I believe most are not having an issue and to spend your time worrying about it is a waste of time. Drive it and enjoy it.

Simon.

ArXate

You still haven't answered with more specific information. Instead of taking insult from someone asking you, reasonably, if you used amount of gas at fill-up, you should focus on the bigger, more important issue of sharing information that can help ALL RX8 owners' causes.

Haze

Actually this is just speculative. Yes, I know that Mazda reps have been talking about a fix for flooding, but I believe that that is a marketing problem and not an engineering one.

As llathos has been questioning, he has heard that this car is undriveable from flooding. From the volume and qualities of posts on the forum, I believe that it has been an overblown problem as an engineering problem. However, it's a huge problem from a marketing persepctive. These cars are stacking up on lots, and I think that it's from unwarranted bad reputation, as well as the weather. God knows that I would never buy a car on Summer tires in the snow seasons, and I think that alot of other people are having the same problems. However, cars ARE stacking up, and Mazda needs to move them. Marketing knows that the flooding is a bad reputation so they are going to "fix" it. Since the problem is inherant to rotary design (as pointed out above by the 25 year rotary owner who had the problem with his second gen RX 7), fixing it really isn't possible, which means that they might be working on a "fix" that is as close to a placebo as a sugar pill. If they can create a "fix", then the word on the street is "well, it had a problem, but now it has been repaired so you are safe to buy the car."

That is another possiblity for the "fix" other than an engineering problem. Therefore A in your premise that since Mazda is working on a fix does not necessarily lead to B flooding is an engineering problem or that the problem is more wide spread than we are seeing here.

It could be as you say above that it is an engineering problem, but this is another possiblity for why Mazda has adopted this rap for their reps. Unfortunately, neither you nor I know the truth. Only mazda does, and as usual . . . they ain't talkin'.

BillK

Perhaps true. Now that the "stall when cold" issue seems to have been resolved, the question still remains of what to do about valets; no valet is going to "warm the engine for five minutes" if they have to move the car to get other cars out of a small lot, and I'm not sure a warning of the form "do not valet park your RX-8" will necessarily fly, especially in areas with lots of staffed garages (Chicago, New York) or lots of valet lots (L.A.)

You are right that 8s seem to be stacking up, and therein lies a problem, especially due to bad word-of-mouth. All it takes is one new RX-8 owner to complain that they had to have their new $30K car towed and an entire office is soured on the car.

Flooding can, of course always happen, the question is whether Mazda can do anything to make the situation more recoverable than to have to pull the plugs and clean them and crank the engine to blow out the accumulated crud. Perhaps a hotter plug will help, perhaps an ECU change of some type, who knows...

As far as MPG goes, for those getting 13-14 MPG my big question is not how high you rev while driving, but what gear you cruise in. If you're in traffic going 35 MPH, are you in third or sixth? Big difference there.

For example, with my current car (not an 8), if I get "lazy" and just leave the car in third or fourth at 35 MPH, I get around 17 MPG; if I shift into sixth as soon as I get to speed (usually a 1->3->6 shift, 1->3 shift at 3000 RPM or so) I can average 22 MPG under the same driving conditions (mixed city/highway drive averaging 40 MPH with little traffic.) Is that the way I drive the car for enjoyment? Heck no, but on my commute there's no reason to be winding the engine out RPM-wise, either.

Finally, I believe people would be a lot less sensitive to the mileage the 8 gets if Mazda had just put a decently sized gas tank on the car; IMHO if it had a 19-20 gallon tank, people would notice the mileage a lot less. Most people don't sit and calculate the mileage if they can get 300-350 miles from a tank of gas; when they can only get 200, the calculations begin pretty quickly...

satan666

Mileage is awful. Just sold my 8 after 7 weeks. If private money is used, as opposed to a company fuel card, avoid this car like the plague.......

shebam

If I were in the UK I wouldn't drive an RX8 either. Here, my tab for driving the car I want the way I want is $2-3 per week, even buying 93 octane. (Sorry, I'm not going to cruise at 35 mph in 6th gear -- might as well have a Prius.)