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I live in Los Angeles. I commute 50 miles a day to work and school. 10 of the 50 miles I put in each day are done on busy streets. Half the time I'm sitting in slow or dead stop traffic.
I get 240-260 miles per 13-13.5 gallon fillup. Thats 18.46 ~ 20.00mpg for combined street/highway driving, using 91 octane Unocal76 gasoline, DSC on, A/C off, radio on, nav on, sunroof open.

Driving the same route with equal aggressiveness (or lack of) resulted in roughly 27mpg in an Integra LS, 16mpg in an RX-7 Turbo II, 18mpg in a Tacoma V6, 31mpg with a Civic DX, and 42mpg with a CBR600F4. All these vehicles have had a flood or two in their time, btw.

On the other hand, if you go climbing hills, racing, idling your car with a/c and reading a book, revving to 9k in low gear, etc.. don't expect gas mileage to be half that.

The RX-8 owner's manual cautions to avoid unnecessarily long warmups - start driving after the rpm drops by itself. This computer-controlled accelerated idle warmup process takes about 2 minutes after the car has been sitting in the cold for around 5 hours or so.

Running the car at this point and shutting it down before the engine reaches normal operating temperature increases your chances of flooding. It's not so hard to avoid doing this, just like it's not so hard to get an oil change every 3000 miles. It's also good practice to check your oil level every 1000 miles.

These rules don't apply specfically to rotaries, mind you.

People think they can get away with treating their cars like their &!@^# just because it's new, and then complain when their engine dies out on them or springs a leak or starts running crappy. Serves them right, in my opinion.

rotarygod

As far as flooding goes (we're going to beat this one to death!) if you own a 6 speed, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE what so ever to have it towed due to being flooded. Push it and pop the damn clutch! Next to be sure that this never happens again, everytime you start the car, floor it while you crank it. Let it turn over a couple of times and then take your foot off. This initally stopped fuel flow to the engine until it was spinning at full speed and also gave time for any residual fuel to leave the engine. I don't care who says what or if the manual says that this is a nonflood procedure only. I forgot who it was on this forum but he absolutely insisted that this not be done unless the engine was already flooded. It's a little late then. I don't care what Mazda wrote in the owners manual either. I will be arrogant enough to say that I do in fact know better than Mazda in regards to their own engine and flooding. If they were so smart they'd have tuned the damn ecu properly and published a correct way to start the car rather than a possible last resort. Flooding is not an issue at all for any rotary if you know how to treat them. I am the only person that car start my 1st gen without flooding it because I know how it works. Learn your cars quirks. They all have them.

As far as power goes, no one who does not own one yet can complain about the horsepower rating. It is already understood how much power the car has. People will always complain and speculate that there is still missing power. All I've got to say is that if Mazda knows what they are talking about in regards to the flooding "fix" in the manual, why do you not trust them in regards to power? Some people have double standards and only believe what they choose to. The engine is easily capable of 250+ hp with some good tuning. Maybe they did tune it bad from the factory but we can fix that pretty easily now. Don't buy a car based on hp number. Performance numbers are what counts and if the car is at a certain performance level, it is irrelevant how much power it took to get the car to that point.

Gas mileage, yeah the rotary gets less. Again this is a tuning issue. The older rotaries were less efficient yet were capable of higher numbers than the Renesis has so far shown. I have no doubt that a properly tuned Renesis can't get upper 20's. I believe Zerobanger and his claim at good mileage. He held a constant speed on the freeway. Just because one person can't do it doesn't mean another can't. He could have averaged a mere 5 mph faster and seen his gas mileage go down the toilet. There is a sweet spot at freeway speeds as well. I've ridden in a few RX-8s and all the drivers like to put their foot down more than they have to. On a rotary the difference in gas mileage can be the difference between shifting at 4000 or 4500 rpm. The rotary is a very finicky engine and again learn your cars quirks. If you accelerate harder than you need to of course you'll get worse gas mileage. This isn't a Honda that has no power no matter how hard you drive it. The rotary is unique and you have to be a rotary engine enthusiast to fully appreciate it. The person that just likes the car for its looks will probably not be a very happy owner.

Buy the car because you like it and you feel that it fits your personal needs. Upgrades will be quite nice and you never know, a simple ecu upgrade may give you everything you ever wanted. Understand that the rotary is unique and needs to be treated uniquely. The people that have owned a rotary or several in the past typically aren't the ones who complain about this one. If you can't get over the rotaries quirks, you shouldn't own one. I think you'll love it. You're only regret may be the gas mileage especially with prices going up but just remember that there are people that drive Excursions, Navigators, Duallys, and a host of other big gas guzzlers out there every day as their primary cars. I know several people that drive these land yachts and I never hear them complain about low gas mileage. They have come to terms with the fact that what they want to drive is the way it is and you should too.

Enjoy your new 8!

Raevik

In the end, despite everyone's own random experiences and "must-be-true" anecdotes, the bottom line is that this car can be driven casually as a primary vehicle without additional stress, right?

Right?

That's essentially the bottom line. Can the car be driven in a comfortable way.

rotarygod, what happens when you're starting your car floored and you release the gas past the "switch" point? Wouldn't your car be running at max throttle? Cold? I guess if you dumped your foot off the gas right away, it wouldn't be an issue....

Elara

I get the same- it's extremely difficult to get less than 17mpg in my car, no matter how hard I drive it, stop and go traffic or otherwise. I'm extremely hard pressed to get less than 230 miles per tank- the last one I only got 204 before the light came on, but I drove it around looking at houses, meaning it was sitting at idle for a good deal of the time. I've gotten over 25 mpg several times (all at highway speeds). Don't think I've ever gotten 30, but I've not tried very hard either.

And again, whether you get the car is compeltely up to you- do you like it enough to ignore possible annoyances once in a while?

cruzdreamer

I have an automatic...never flooded it. I try and make sure if I go for a very short drive that I give it a few minutes....no big deal. At first I thought this was crazy and it bothered me.....but now it's no big deal. 3800 miles on it so far. My gas mileage was crummy at first(around 12 mpg) and now it's at 15.3 mpg and that is winter driving! I expect it will get better come warmer weather. The car is so darn unique & cool and the handling is so awesome that the few times I drive a very short distance right from it being cold...ususally only in the a.m...it warms up fast......is a miniscule thing. The utility of the back seat is awesome, the trunk is actually spacious and I hardly ever have to add oil...once...1/2 quart. The car is well worth it....I was a little scared too at first since I never had a rotary engine car, but I knew Mazda had superb handling and I have never had so much fun driving until I got a Mazda car(Mazda Protege5)!! The RX 8 is worth every penny! Your choice!! Good Luck!

Cski

Llathos' questions are well written and valid. Bottom line is that being a potential buyer I have the same exact questions, which means that there are many others out there who have the same exact questions. Also, I fall into the group of folks who wants a somewhat practical, affordable sports car. I am not a fanatic of rotary, nor the Mazda name brand, I am a fanatic of getting as much as my dollar can get.

With that in mind, the flooding issue is not a minor nuisance. Minor nuisances are rattles and such. I don't think you should have to spend 27k+ on a car in 2004 and have to treat it special in order for it to work right, maybe a $5000 Yugo - that would make more sense considering the cost.

I am not trying to upset anyone on this board or any current owners, I just want to make sure Mazda understands that this is an issue, and they should fix it as opposed to offering recommended start up/shut down procedures that cost $$ in terms of using up fuel.

At this point, I am willing to wait a while to see if a fix/bulletin comes out of Mazda, and I hope one does, because the RX-8 is an interesting car that would be great to own.

JD32

After 3100 miles I get 17-18 mpg city and 20-21 mpg hwy using 87 octane. Never flooded it, but I do rev it up to 4k rpm before shutdown. I love my car (my wife thinks more than her) and would buy it again in a hearbeat. Also one of the best perks is that I can haul more than one person around in a sports car.
Good luck and zoom zoom!!

Q121825

I'm passing 2500 miles and my overall average, incluing the break in period, is 18.6 MPG. If I drive hard, it drops into the 17s. I haven't broken 20 yet, but did get 19.8 recently. I am hoping to break into the 20s as I put miles on my 8. I'd be elated to reach Elara's 25!

On my daily commute (50+ miles each way), if I think about MPG and am careful, I'm in the 19s easily. If I zoom-zoom on the little 2-lane road I live off of, I slip below 19.

When I was running the numbers to buy the car, we (the BF and I) agreed that I should try to keep the MPG as high as I could on my commute. Club runs with the local Mazda Rotary group do not count . The actual target is 18 MPG and I can do that.

On the flooding "issue": I am more careful about my driving habits, I plan my day more carefully and don't just hop in the car to run out at lunch (which is better for my budget and my waistline). If I have errands to run, I think about them and plan them to accomodate my beloved 8's quirks. If I feel I've ran a "short" trip, I'll rev above 4000 and kill the ignition as a precaution.

If I flood it, it happens and I get it fixed. No big deal to me.

I bought my 8 because it's one hell of a car in all it's aspects to me. And it works its own magic on me, I don't come home angry and stressed from my commute any more. I come home with a Cat-who-8-the-Canary GRIN! :D

My $0.02 worth.

zerobanger

This "flooding" thing is so taken out of proportion. a small handful of 15,000 rx-8's sold flooded and its treated like an epidemic.

4,000 miles no flooding. I get in my car for lunch, drive across the street, park the car when its cold. Get in my car go back to work, park it (still cold), drive home. In the mornings I put gas in my car, gas station is 1 milie away. I have never flooded it. I have never flooded any of my rotary cars.

I'm not saying it cant happen, but this is so stretched out of proportion.

shebam

Well, I guess my problem (never reaching 15 in commute or 22 on highway) isn't the color or transmission. How about your seats -- mine are Chapparal.

JaegerNH

Cski:

Count me as being in the same category. You want to hear how pre-sold I was on this car? All my friends were asking me what color I had ordered even before they were on the lot. For everyone that knows me it was a forgone conclusion that one of them would be in my driveway shortly.

I'm really glad I found this and other forums where you only need to scan a few pages to get the message loud and clear that this is not version 8.0 of an existing product but rather version 1.0 of something else. Accordingly there are major bugs still to be worked out.

I find the people that take these bugs as the car's "character" interesting. I know people that had cars with a lot of character (old jaguar, MGB, etc) and they were great to ride in when they were working. The key word here is working.

Reeko

Man I wish I got similar.
I have never gotten over 220 miles on a tank. I have only gotten ranges from 15-18 MPG. However, I don't get much highway time in. (Country backroads, 10 mile commute each way to work)

On the good side, the difference between diving concervative and winding the heck out of it is only about 1-2 MPG difference for me, so it is worth it

Aratinga

Wellll....

Yes, you can drive the car in a normal, comfortable manner... but where's the fun in that? Drive this car like she's meant to be driven! Using her as a commuting appliance is wasting her considerable talents. That said, she is a very mannerly, comfortable daily transportation device that'll get you lots of envious looks as you drive.

To answer the question you posed very early on in this thread... the flooding will be non-issue if you simply follow these very reasonable and easy guidelines:

When you're going to drive the car for a normal trip (i.e., a five minute drive or longer), just start her up and go. No need to depress any pedal but the clutch (if M/T) when starting. Turn key, engine starts, drive away. No idling or special warmup necessary; that is accomplished as you drive.

If you need to run the car for a very short time WHEN THE ENGINE'S COLD (such as to move it out of the garage into the driveway to be washed or whatever), start as above, move, then allow to idle for about five minutes. When the temperature gauge is in the normal range, rev the engine to 3500 RPM a couple times and then shut down. It should not stall or flood and should start right back up the next time you go to start it.

If the engine is ALREADY WARM, you can start up and shut down without repeating the five-minute warmup procedure. Just get in the habit of looking at your temp guage before you shut off the engine. If it's in the normal range, you can turn her off and not worry about a flood next time you start her.

I have had my car since mid July, she has nearly 8K miles on her, and she has never stalled or flooded.

Gas mileage: Ain't the greatest, but hey... it's a sportscar. I can squeeze 18-19 MPG out of her in combined city/highway driving, but it's probably 70% stop/go (lights, heavy freeway traffic) and 30% constant-speed highway zooming. It improves tremendously with steady highway driving -- 24-25 MPG then.

Don't worry about all the horror stories you've read here. The RX-8 is a unique, impressive dare-to-be-different machine that will tickle and impress you every time you drive her. Just get used to checking that digital speedo a bit more often than you're used to in whatever you previously drove. The 8's acceleration is deceptively smooth and very addictive.

rjenk

I have an auto and have not experienced any issues with flooding. I have actually gone out, started the car and drove down a private street to my parents house (less than 1/2 mile) and turned the car off, spent 10-15 minutes inside and then jumped back in and started it right up. Mind you I don't do that very often but that type of driving for some seems to cause a problem. But, so far not a problem for me.

As for the mileage, my main gripe, I routinely get 13-14 MPG around town, driving normally - that is not winding it to the red line or hot shotting the car. I try to take care of my vehicles so I do not routinely hot rod. This is a real sticking point for me, so much so that because of the low mileage versus what the EPA tested, I would not have purchased the car. I absolutely love the design and look of the vehicle, I just cannot deal with the poor gas mileage regardless of it being a "sports" car or not. I have never encountered a vehicle that was not able to achieve at least what was stated on the sticker (or in most cases exceed).

Just my two pennies...your mileage may vary...sorry could not resist.

Trx8

For me, buying was a cyclical process. I saw it, read the superficial reviews, and I wanted it. Along the way I found this forum, and then I had significant concerns about getting the ~first model year of a car that had "these sorts of issues". As I read more on this forum I saw that although there were issues, for me anyway, each was resolvable (forewarned is forearmed is stated elsewhere in the forum).

Along this path I also accepted that owning an RX-8 may leave me more vulnerable to problems and inconveniences, and some could be significant. I also looked at every dealer in the area, and ruled-out those cars. I kept returning to the RX-8, so after 3 months of looking, I bought one.

This forum has lots of real-world knowledge about the RX-8. I was fortunate that I had the opportunity to know what I was buying and be prepared for it. Its truly amazing car for the right buyers.

Raevik

Wow.

This community is amazing, I must admit. I am amazed every time I return to this forum and read the quantity and QUALITY of posts written up here with informative and thoughful contributions.

As for my previous post, I did not intend to imply by "casually" driving the car without stress, I meant no fun. I intend to enjoy this vehicle's performance. If I didn't, I would go buy a Honda.

Here's what I'm left with:

1) Being prudent. Continue driving my M-edition MX-6 (for sale on the boards at www.mx6.com, I might add) until the 2005's come out and hope they've fixed the flood issue.

2) Saying to hell with it. I can buy it now, be "careful" about it, and enjoy the car until the fix is distributed to dealers via tech service bulletin covered under warranty.

Arrgh, decisions decisions

Cski

I don't think it is very reasonable unless Mazda offers a gas credit, it costs money to warm up an engine just to wash your car, etc.

zerobanger

you are acting like every rx-8 floods. if it happens occasionaly to some of us, so be it. It appears from my browsing of these threads that 98 pct of us have never flooded our rx-8.

zoom44

please read my post in the lounge concerning mpg. good info about the epa test. it is an article from the usatoday. you will find it enlightening.

shebam

After mine flooded (I had not read the "flooding" posts or it would never have happend), I did worry for a while about it happening again. Now having driven through months of frigid winter with no starting or stalling problem, I would agree that it should not really be a factor unless, perhaps, you valet-park all the time.

Raevik

This actually brings up a key point here that I inquired about early in this thread:

does anyone have metrics on the kind of numbers we're talking about here?

Random people say it's only 1%, other people say it's every single RX-8 out there, it's just about how you handle the vehicle. I was going to start a poll of drivers here who have experienced the problem, but I decided to just post instead.

So here's the question, point blank: Is the problem a design flaw that exists in all cars, or is it a manufacturing flaw that exists in only a percentage of cars, as some people have suggested?

Haze

Look . . . Man . . . dude . . . how many ways do we have to say THAT VERY FEW CARS HAVE FLOODED.

It isn't the issue that it is being blown into. Most people who have posted about flooding come right out and say that they started it cold in the morning and stopped it within a minute. In reciprocating engines you can flood it and have it not start the same way because I did it once to my Maxima. It isn't that big of deal if you just warm the car a bit. As for Valeting it, I have done that several times in NYC, and I had no flooding problems with that. I drive the thing like it's a regular car. Some times I race around with it, but most of the time I am commuting in stop and go traffic. It runs fine. Hasn't broken yet. It's a car. You drove it. You know how it feels.

The thing here is that you are worried about plunking down the money and making that choice on a car, which I respect. You are just going to have to take the risk . . .take the step, but you will never convince yourself that the RX 8 is a zero risk. No car is a zero risk, and yes there is a hair, scintilla of more risk to a rotary over a recip. It's small though. None of our cars are dropping dead every week. Very few have ever dropped dead at all! Most of us are driving around happily zoom - zooming from place to place with great handling and smart looks. I can't tell you that there is a zero risk of flooding the car or that the engine absolutely won't die, but mercedes can't tell you that with a AMG55. It's a car. Every one of them has its own quirks, and the RX 8's quirks will not keep you from driving it. It's a great car, and it is the first car that I ever have owned that I did NOT have buyer's remorse over.

Make your choice, and make sure that you are willing to take that leap of faith because if you are worried about flooding for the rest of your ownership, you'll never be happy. Personally, I would think that you would get used to it, but that's a choice that you have to make. There is nothing that any of us can say now that will help you. The choice is within you. Close your eyes and step off that cliff or don't. It's your choice.

shebam

Not a manufacturing flaw. Only thing wrong with my car was I backed it out of driveway and parked in front of the house, in very cold weather, with engine still cold, because I didn't know any better. Now I do. If I'd driven around the block or idled a minute or two would never have happened. That's the whole story.

Shooter

I think the flooding issue is way overblown on this board. I've had rotaries for 7 years and have NEVER flooded one, EVER.

As far as the MPG, this is a sports car not an economy car. I get about 16mpg and I am fine with it. I know what I bought and I wouldnt trade it for anything. If I was buying for mpg i would have bought a hybrid!

This car is so much damn fun to drive, I think you are just looking for excuses to bash the product.

Cski

Facts are facts: Hybrids do get more mpg. But so do the RX-8's competion. Take the 350Z for example - 20 gallon tank with 20/26mpg vs. RX-8 - 15.9 gallon tank with 18/24, not to mention less hp and torque. So all the concerns about the poor mpg on the RX-8 are reasonable when you consider that the competion does better.