sixthgear151

posted mssge under different subject just need to get word out. Advised by dealer unfortunate rx-8 owner drove thru big puddle of water and ruined their engine. Cost 10K. And front drivers' seatbelt (on post) buckled into rear buckle. dealer had to break buckle to remove.

HIX8

10k? They got off cheap.

I attempted to go through ~6 inches of water and my engine got killed too. I was charged... get this:

$12,142.42


9 thousand of that was just the parts charge for the engine (other charges were for a few sensors +$1670 for labor). So if you think that 9k is a fun number to have associated with the RX-8, you might want to keep in the back of your mind what 9k might end up meaning to you if your engine goes. Mazda seems to have no qualms about exploiting their loyal customers when there is only a single source supplier.

On the other thread about the Fuel Low Lt, I share my view on risk taking. That day when I decided to try to make it through the flooded neighborhood back to the house, I had thought that the worst case would have been me stalling the engine and having to dry it out.

I was WAY OFF.



_____

Winning_BlueRX8

I hope you are exaggerating...a 6 inch puddle could wreck my engine??? That is total BS. Anytime it rains around here, ALL my streets flood. It's nice to know I can't drive in the rain anymore. It's just not worth the risk of 12 grand.

Omicron

Jeesh, not good. How fast were you going when you hit that puddle, or did you just creep through it?

8_wannabe

2 questions: Why is this not covered under warranty? I don't consider driving through a 6-inch puddle abusive or unusual. Second, why not let the car sit and dry out, then play all innocent like you don't know why the car is bad. After it dries out, can they really tell it was ruined by a puddle?

Edit: Ok, 3rd question. Can any kind of shielding be installed underneath to prevent water intrusion or electrical damage?

Genom

I have driven my car through about 8 inches of water 2 times so far when it was rainging pretty good a couple months back with no issue. I cannot see how 6 inches of water will kill the engine and cost 10G to fix. If you paid that you really need to go get a lawyer and sue the pants off that dealership. 16 inches of water I could understand, but 6? That is one hell fo a serious design flaw that could get the car recalled if 6 inches of water will kill it.

HIX8

Due to the overwhelming response, I just went out to my car with a ruler to see exactly how high that water was. My revised estimate is 8 inches. The water came up to the frame, but not to the door sill. No water entered the cabin.

On some other thread, I posted that the problem is that sports car designers like to put the air intake low up front where the air pressure is high. Not good for standing water, especially if a bow wave builds up.

On that thread, I posted the suggestion of, if anyone ever needed to push it, blocking the air intake up front and opening up the system up high, like at the filter.

But if you ever try anything higher than 8 inches, you can probably expect water to come into the cab. And then you could be looking at a total loss, insurance-wise.


- Why wasn't it covered under warranty?

MY QUESTION EXACTLY!

Key fact:
To make matters worse, the underside aero panel had come detatched. I told the dealership that this is probably what caused the water to scoop up into the air intake. I fully expect to be able to drive my car without panels coming detatched.

It was clearly a warranty issue to me. My insurance company didn't seem to mind cutting the check. My out of pocket cost was a $200 deductible.

...now if they try to jack my rates, then the pain threshold will probably get crossed to where I start to squawk to key people at Mazda.


- Why not play innocent?

Well, there's also the concept of treating others the way you'd want to be treated. If I was a dealership, I wouldn't want customers yanking me around.

With all the complaints about what Mazda fell short on, maybe our best collective response is to be the best customers we can be. Insist on them holding to their agreements, and we come through on our end.


- Shielding?

The intake clogging suggestion above should be simple to do.

But as mentioned elsewhere, the simplest course of action is to avoid the situation. I'd recommend the intake-clog/filter-crack only in critical situations. And I can't think of too many situations all that critical.

I certainly wasn't in a desperate situation that night. My reason for trying it was based on 18 years of RX-7 driving experience (all 2nd Gen) where I never had any problems driving through standing water.

HIX8

I don't know the actual mph. The last thing I look at in situations like that is the speedometer. My attention is focused outside, in my best effort to gauge what the water is doing.

If I were to guess, I would say that I was going between 5-10mph.

mazdabob

If you drive slowly and carefully thru water you should not have a problem. But, if you speed into the water, it will be forced into the engine compartment, and splash everywhere, and could cause serious damage to electronic components.

HIX8

I totally agree.

8_wannabe

The panel coming loose is key. Rather than being a design problem (hard to prove), it is now a manufacturing defect (easier to prove.) The panel turns from an aerodynamic device to a water scoop, and seems like the damage can be pretty clearly traced to this. Was the loose panel documented in any way? If so, get this to your insurance company. They should try to recover the costs from Mazda. Mazda needs to feel some pain from this else the problem may persist. Others of us should have the panel checked to make sure it's not coming loose. This answers my question about shielding: It's there, but not installed right.

Glad to hear this wasn't out-of-pocket for you.

Speed Racer

HIX8,

It sounds like they replaced the engine because you hydrolocked it (i.e water inside the combustion chamber). Water does not like to compress and as the engine went through the compression cycle you probably damaged the apex seals and eccentric shaft. Which would require either a new engine or entire rebuild of the old one.

Just a word of caution to everyone else, don't drive through deep puddles and risk getting water into the intake. If the engine injests water you should shut it off immediately and hope for the best. The vehicle should then be towed to a garage where the spark plugs can be removed and the water drained.

I'd agree with Mazda's decision to not cover this under warranty because the damage was caused by the driver and you should be happy that your insurance covered it. Just view this as a learning experience and leave the puddle jumping to the SUVs.

8_wannabe

Do you agree with this even considering the aero panel underneath the engine had come loose, essentially scooping up water into the engine compartment? That sounds to me like a manufacturing defect, a small thing that lead to substantial damage.

I agree if the car was abused, resulting damage is outside the warranty. Is driving through an 8 inch puddle considered abusive? This was estimated at around 10 mph; not high-speed, which could have caused high-pressure water penetration. How was one to know how deep the puddle was in advance? This seems like a real borderline case to me but aggravated by the loose panel.

MEGAREDS

If the insurance company was called to pay for the damage, the loose panel should have been brought to their attention... it becomes their call on whether to chase Mazda down at that point.

With regard to the seat belt problem (front belt buckle locking into rear seat socket and not releasing)... that was me:

Seat Belt Fiasco

I did not pursue it with Mazda, although my dealer indicated he did. I supsect if I had pursued it, they would have taken care of it -- I can be a pain in the *** when I decide to go that way. It's still on my list of "things to do." But frankly, without more people complaining about this problem, I feel silly chasing it down and acting outraged, particularly when I've been otherwise so happy with my car (so far, anyway) and the service people (Liberty Mazda) handled it courteously and professionally.

Thanks for the heads up about standing water... I had forgotten what a danger that can be. I'm putting it on my list of things not to do.

Sanguine_Dark

I had the same problem with the seatbelt. I took delivery of the car and someone in the detail dept. had jammed the front seatbelt into the rear. My dealership kept saying "we'll get it fixed" I got sick of waiting and fixed it myself. It only took a screwdriver and a pair of tweezers.

Speed Racer

I'm having a hard time imagining that enough water can be thrown into the intake under the conditions he described but if that is what happened who am I to argue.

I'm just glad that he didn't have to pay that huge repair bill out of his pocket.

Genshie

It may not be driver negligence if he drove through 8 inches of standing water. Here in the bay area, drainage is poor, especially on the highway after a rainstorm. I remember driving on the interstate at 6AM (still dark) after a big storm, and there was a literal lake across the entire 3 lane highway (HWY 85). Luckily then I had my truck, but you could not see this puddle until you were seriously in it. I was only going the speed limit when I hit this thing, and thankfully did not hydroplane NOR hydrolock..but if I was in my RX7 (with a cone filter no more than 5 inches off the ground)...not only would my motor have been destroyed, but I would have been too. I am always paranoid as hell in my RX7 (modded intake) when it is raining for this exact reason. I try not to drive it at all in heavy rain.

Getting the engine bay full of water is not really a big problem. I wheel a lot and guys who get buried in stream crossings usually hydrolock their engine. Shorting out the electrical system is less of an issue.

Like someone mentioned, first sign of hitting a puddle that you think might have sucked a significant amount of water into the intake..TURN OFF THE CAR! Pull the sparkplugs and disconnect the coil. Then crank the engine in order to shoot all the water out. Put it all back in, go home, change your oil, and cross your fingers!

Happy Rotoring,

Kurt G.

hondas2k

Does anyone have any good shots of the underside of the 8 to see exactly how this piece could come loose and scoop up water?

Just curious.

Kirk

HIX8

As I remember, there are a half dozen or so hex-screws that torque the front of the underside aeropanel to the bottom of the bumper edge (painted).

The dealership took photos and I'm sure that my insurance agent did as well, though I never saw any of them. My bad for not taking my own set of photos.

HIX8

I have reservations about naming the dealership since I've publicly voiced criticism for exploitive billing practices.

...but I will take this opportunity to share more of the story:

They tell me it's fixed after about two weeks in the shop, so I go to pick up my car. She looks great. Runs great. As good as new, as far as I can tell (well it only had 979 miles on it anyway). Before I pay the deductible, there's a long discussion about who owns the old motor. I finally learn that my insurance company worked a deal so that Mazda gets the engine back. So does this mean that the $9k price on the motor was after being credited for a core charge? I don't remember getting a satisfactory answer to that, and I was never given any documentation on the old engine.

So I fork up the two bills and drive off, with the rush of being back in the RX cockpit staving off some of the price shock. Well I make it back to my neighborhood (~10mi) but before I get to the house, the amber CEL catches my eye. I immediately feel the totality of all my frustrations of the previous two weeks. After being charged >$12k, I would hope that the car could be driven for at least a few hours without needing to bring it back to the shop. A quick U-turn and back to the dealership I go.

I drop it off. I get a call at work later that day to hear that it is a simple fix and the car should be ready the next day.

Next day, I get the call from the service mgr:

"Your engine is fixed, but we have a dilemma."

?

"Someone here backed a pickup truck into your car."

!

"Don't worry, we'll take care of fixing it."

Had it not been my RX-8 he was talking about, I might have said that this was now a comedy of errors. But needless to say, I wasn't laughing. I dropped everything at work and bolted straight out to the dealership to see it with my own eyes. This couldn't be some twisted joke. Sure enough, I get there to see my baby sitting there in the shop with the left rear crunched and scraped.

I drive off, feeling a bit numb by this point.

After a few days they tell me that it's ready to be picked up. I look over the repair job. I immediately show the service mgr that by looking carefully, you can see where the car was hit. After relating my disappointment, I tell them about my plan that I will accept the car as they are offering it.

If it is a good enough repair job for Mazda to give a customer, I will insist that it is a good enough repair job for Mazda to buy back from me.

(This is hardly my primary reason for wanting to "shift the RX-8 purchase deal into reverse". This is only the tip of the iceberg to that story.)

HIX8

Well, I just now got back from the original dealership having sold back my 8.

No withdrawl symptoms yet.

(...checks pulse...)

8_wannabe

How is it that you sold it back? Not under the buy-back program; it's too late for that. Did they give you some other kind of deal?

HIX8

I made my down payment way back in January. Purchased in July. It was the first 8 delivered to the area.

Perhaps tonight marks the final buyback. Wanna hear a whacky story? I tell the General Manager how much I love the car, and that I would buy it straight back right then and there (my complaint had been with the deal, not the car). He tells me that the cars won't be resold because they're now classified as being somehow defective (some Lemon Law technicality or some such legal hook). And then he tells me that he's heard that...

Mazda is taking the buybacks and CRUSHING them.


?!

And I had been oh so careful not to get any *door*dings*.

It hurts to think that his info is accurate. At the very least there has to be some foreign country where these cars could find a nice home.

Maybe I'll pacify myself with the notion of a conspiracy theory that Mazda is giving out deceptive info to protect the market value (Mazda... give deceptive info?) and that all the buybacks are being hermetically sealed in some warehouse in Nevada so that they can be resold at a tremendous profit as antiques in the year 2024...

...and I will be able to reunite with my car when I outbid everyone else at the auction, kinda like the happy ending of "Somewhere In Time".

(Instead of ROCK8, maybe I should have nicknamed her "Elise".)

MEGAREDS

I'd like to see this story confirmed... the media would love it.

8_wannabe

Actually, they are being carefully restored, preserved, sealed in box cars which are then secretly buried in the Nevada desert with a nanometer beacon directed at Jupiter announcing their presence to any passing aliens. But no, there's no conspiracy. The truth is out there...