Video games made my car better...
06-11-2007, 04:59 PM
#1
printf("</%i pistons",3);
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Video games made my car better...
So, Forza 2 just came out for the Xbox360, and I haven't played it yet because I'm just a few races away from hitting the 100% completion mark of the original Forza for old XBox, and I'm a hardcore gamer so pwning 1 before starting 2 is just how I roll.
Anyways, it's been AGES since I've played Forza 1, and I forgot alot about the game... mainly the ability to quickly do a simulation run of your vehicle to get the 0-60 & skidpad figures of your car at the touch of a button. I bought an RX-8, and without buying any aftermarket parts, I managed to get my in-game RX-8 to go from a default .86g on the skidpad to a .9g!
"Bullshit," I thought at first, "I've just found a bug in the game." Eventually, my curiosity got the better of me and I just had to see what would happen if I pressurized my real tires accordingly. Sure as ****, my car handled *MUCH* more to my liking! I don't think I was quite pulling .9gs around turns, but I had completely eliminated all understeer from turn entry, and I could hammer it out of turns without the backend getting lose!
If you're driving on Kumo Ecsta Sport tires with stock suspension, I recommend trying ~33PSI rear, ~38PSI front. I don't track my car so I dunno if this is ideal for track surfaces and/or higher speeds, but for 20-45mph right-angle turns on regular road surfaces the car sits beautifully into corners!
Props to the Forza development team
Anyways, it's been AGES since I've played Forza 1, and I forgot alot about the game... mainly the ability to quickly do a simulation run of your vehicle to get the 0-60 & skidpad figures of your car at the touch of a button. I bought an RX-8, and without buying any aftermarket parts, I managed to get my in-game RX-8 to go from a default .86g on the skidpad to a .9g!
"Bullshit," I thought at first, "I've just found a bug in the game." Eventually, my curiosity got the better of me and I just had to see what would happen if I pressurized my real tires accordingly. Sure as ****, my car handled *MUCH* more to my liking! I don't think I was quite pulling .9gs around turns, but I had completely eliminated all understeer from turn entry, and I could hammer it out of turns without the backend getting lose!
If you're driving on Kumo Ecsta Sport tires with stock suspension, I recommend trying ~33PSI rear, ~38PSI front. I don't track my car so I dunno if this is ideal for track surfaces and/or higher speeds, but for 20-45mph right-angle turns on regular road surfaces the car sits beautifully into corners!
Props to the Forza development team
06-11-2007, 05:07 PM
#2
Haa I made the newb mistake of not checking my tire pressures at the track and leaving them at 40psi cold...I was wondering why the car was acting all squirrely...
Enter Avenger who almost slapped me upside the head...34 Front, 30 Rear if I remember correctly...difference was like night and day...
Enter Avenger who almost slapped me upside the head...34 Front, 30 Rear if I remember correctly...difference was like night and day...
06-12-2007, 09:30 AM
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One of the starting cars in Froza 2 is the 2nd gen RX-7. You can swap in a 3-rotor, or do 3 different stages of porting (instead of swapping in cams and different pistons).
Forza>Gran Turismo for sure
Forza>Gran Turismo for sure
06-12-2007, 09:54 AM
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UMMM... yea, Forza2 is better than GT4, but when GTHD comes out Forza will look like a piece of garbage, not to mention Ill be able to download additional tracks, cars and mods for GTHD for free on PS3, while XBOX360 players have to pay just to connect to XBOX live.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
06-12-2007, 10:13 AM
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UMMM... yea, Forza2 is better than GT4, but when GTHD comes out Forza will look like a piece of garbage, not to mention Ill be able to download additional tracks, cars and mods for GTHD for free on PS3, while XBOX360 players have to pay just to connect to XBOX live.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
06-12-2007, 10:40 AM
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GTHD looks more than awesome, and it will def. kill forza2 if they could just add the damage factor, change color, and looks (for those who are into kits).
I still play gt4 a lot because I friggin' grew up with gt!
Trial Mountain is my Akina.
Anywho, my tyre adjustments are my only way of 'tuning on the spot' while not having edfc or any type of adjustable coilovers/shocks, the tyre pressure is the only thing I can do. Makes a lot of difference though! Gonna try 29 rear and 32 front come next auto-x.
06-12-2007, 10:58 AM
#11
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ga...s/273&cl=us,en
06-12-2007, 11:36 AM
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^+10000 for force feedback steeringwheel. Only way to play GT.
Zoned: You can customize your button setup on the PS controller so you can use the R and L bumpers, the same way it is on XBOX. The XBOX controller offeres nothing the PS controller doesnt have...
In fact, it is a step behind the PS controller now that Y-Axis has been integrated. Your XBOX controller cant controll the car if you turn it side to side like a steering wheel, the Y-Axis PS3 controller can and will (and already has)
Cohdey: The developers of GTHD are much more concerned with replicating a viceral life-like driving experience, than adding cool damage effects and bodykits.
The cars will register tire wear, break fade, engine tempuratures, and physical impact (although not shown by damage effects) will effect the driveability of the car race by race.
What it comes down to is Forza is a more Teenage-friendly, less realistic, more arcade game. Forza was produced to sell. GTHD will be produced to impress.
GTHD is much marketed towards to older crowd of gamers, hence it is a much more grown up, more realistic, less forgiving game.
MY FINAL POINT IN THIS RANT IS:
GTHD= Racing Simulator
Forza= Arcade Game
BTW, Id just like you all to know that Ive played Forza and Forza 2. Forza 2 is a VERY good game, and alot of fun to play, I give it due respects. It just does not hit the same marks of realistic driving experience as GT does though, which in my mind makes it the lesser game. More fun to play, but less realistic.
Zoned: You can customize your button setup on the PS controller so you can use the R and L bumpers, the same way it is on XBOX. The XBOX controller offeres nothing the PS controller doesnt have...
In fact, it is a step behind the PS controller now that Y-Axis has been integrated. Your XBOX controller cant controll the car if you turn it side to side like a steering wheel, the Y-Axis PS3 controller can and will (and already has)
Cohdey: The developers of GTHD are much more concerned with replicating a viceral life-like driving experience, than adding cool damage effects and bodykits.
The cars will register tire wear, break fade, engine tempuratures, and physical impact (although not shown by damage effects) will effect the driveability of the car race by race.
What it comes down to is Forza is a more Teenage-friendly, less realistic, more arcade game. Forza was produced to sell. GTHD will be produced to impress.
GTHD is much marketed towards to older crowd of gamers, hence it is a much more grown up, more realistic, less forgiving game.
MY FINAL POINT IN THIS RANT IS:
GTHD= Racing Simulator
Forza= Arcade Game
BTW, Id just like you all to know that Ive played Forza and Forza 2. Forza 2 is a VERY good game, and alot of fun to play, I give it due respects. It just does not hit the same marks of realistic driving experience as GT does though, which in my mind makes it the lesser game. More fun to play, but less realistic.
Last edited by SoFL_RX8; 06-12-2007 at 11:40 AM.
06-12-2007, 11:38 AM
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UMMM... yea, Forza2 is better than GT4, but when GTHD comes out Forza will look like a piece of garbage, not to mention Ill be able to download additional tracks, cars and mods for GTHD for free on PS3, while XBOX360 players have to pay just to connect to XBOX live.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
Trust me, Forza's position on the throne of racing-sim is not secure for very long.
While both of them sit on the throne of console racing sims. Neither approaches sims that have been around for years on the PC. I think the multiplayer experience on the console easily trumps the PC, though (at least for Forza).
Don't forget that the reason sony's version of Xbox Live is free is because it is immature and sort of a work in progress. Mark my words. They will start charging - possibly by the time GTHD arrives.
I would invite any hardcore Gran Turismo player to play either version of Forza. After a few hours of playing, I think any honest answer would include mostly praise.
06-12-2007, 11:43 AM
#15
EDIT: Added Info from web below...
Series producer Kazunori Yamauchi has held a talk where he discussed in detail some of the features of Gran Turismo HD, in particular the online play, damage, and AI.
First of all was a recap on the Classic and Premium modes, which you can read about in our earlier news posts. Then a quick mention about Ferrari. Ferrari cars will not only appear in GT HD, but starting roughly 6 months from now and continuing for a period of a year, Polyphony Digital and Ferrari will engage in collaborative marketing efforts.
The focus then turned to the online aspects. Yamauchi started by saying "GT HD is an online game, and a large scale one at that." He even hinted at much more in depth plans - "We'd like to offer users the freedom that was only available to developers," without going into further details.
Updates issued by Polyphony seem like they will be made over the course of the next year, one of which should include car damage. At long last it will make it into the series, becoming available some time during 2007. Another update will apparently be for the AI, with updated routines also becoming available for download in 2007.
Last edited by eviltwinkie; 06-12-2007 at 11:50 AM.
06-12-2007, 11:51 AM
#16
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^+10000 for force feedback steeringwheel. Only way to play GT.
Zoned: You can customize your button setup on the PS controller so you can use the R and L bumpers, the same way it is on XBOX. The XBOX controller offeres nothing the PS controller doesnt have...
In fact, it is a step behind the PS controller now that Y-Axis has been integrated. Your XBOX controller cant controll the car if you turn it side to side like a steering wheel, the Y-Axis PS3 controller can and will (and already has)
Cohdey: The developers of GTHD are much more concerned with replicating a viceral life-like driving experience, than adding cool damage effects and bodykits.
The cars will register tire wear, break fade, engine tempuratures, and physical impact (although not shown by damage effects) will effect the driveability of the car race by race.
What it comes down to is Forza is a more Teenage-friendly, less realistic, more arcade game. Forza was produced to sell. GTHD will be produced to impress.
GTHD is much marketed towards to older crowd of gamers, hence it is a much more grown up, more realistic, less forgiving game.
MY FINAL POINT IN THIS RANT IS:
GTHD= Racing Simulator
Forza= Arcade Game
Zoned: You can customize your button setup on the PS controller so you can use the R and L bumpers, the same way it is on XBOX. The XBOX controller offeres nothing the PS controller doesnt have...
In fact, it is a step behind the PS controller now that Y-Axis has been integrated. Your XBOX controller cant controll the car if you turn it side to side like a steering wheel, the Y-Axis PS3 controller can and will (and already has)
Cohdey: The developers of GTHD are much more concerned with replicating a viceral life-like driving experience, than adding cool damage effects and bodykits.
The cars will register tire wear, break fade, engine tempuratures, and physical impact (although not shown by damage effects) will effect the driveability of the car race by race.
What it comes down to is Forza is a more Teenage-friendly, less realistic, more arcade game. Forza was produced to sell. GTHD will be produced to impress.
GTHD is much marketed towards to older crowd of gamers, hence it is a much more grown up, more realistic, less forgiving game.
MY FINAL POINT IN THIS RANT IS:
GTHD= Racing Simulator
Forza= Arcade Game
It's official. You have never played either version of Forza.
Yes, it's a sim, in the same way that GTHD is. It is definitely not an arcade game made for kids. I'm 37. I enjoy PC sims. I hate arcade racing games.
Forza offers all the stuff you named above (plus more) except brake fade. I didn't know GT did that. I can't wait to see that in action. Among other impressive features, it offers tire compound and width choices, different tracks have different surfaces with more or less grip, and just about everything you could think of can be adjusted (sway bar, camber, caster, toe, shock stiffness). Seriously, find a Forza 2 web site and read about it.
Watch this trailer. You will instantly change your mind.
http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=65726
06-12-2007, 12:38 PM
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Are you sure that forza 2 doesnt have brake fade? cause after 4 laps in a ferrari 430, i could feel what i thought was fade coming down the hill at the seca.
I have been a die hard Turismo junkie from day 1 and i gotta tell you, Forza 2 is no joke, it is a fantastic racing sim that will let you do some cool customizations. my only complaint so far is only being able to sell won cars at 100.00 a pop.
I have been a die hard Turismo junkie from day 1 and i gotta tell you, Forza 2 is no joke, it is a fantastic racing sim that will let you do some cool customizations. my only complaint so far is only being able to sell won cars at 100.00 a pop.
06-12-2007, 12:39 PM
#22
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I have played Forza and there tracks are just as realistic as Gt's real world tracks.So whats your point?
06-12-2007, 04:23 PM
#23
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Wow... I think there's way too much bias going on here. While both games are racing sims, I really never even thought of them as real competitors. Yeah, they have a lot in common, and they are trying to one-up each other, but their presentation and gameplay are clearly going in opposite directions.
GT, since the original PSone version, has always put looking real above everything else. Second to appearence, came feel. The cars drive with as much realism as possible, but there have always been bizzare gaps in their physics.
Now, I wont lie - GT3 is still my favorite racing sim of all time, but it's certainly not the best. The replays were amazing to watch, and you can tell a great deal of time and effort went into the elaborate camera angles, the glorious backgrounds, and the Bemani-inspired music-video-style replay feature. But in terms of gameplay, the game was severely lacking. You ended up doing the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over. After passing the 10% mark in career mode, all you ever did was buy a car, buy every "racing" grade part in the shop, change your oil, and proceed blow the competition out of the water in their near-stock cars.
Races quickly became more of a mandatory waiting period between winning cars. I mean, let's be honest, as you were on lap 88 of the bone-stock-miata-marathon race, were you enjoying yourself in the least? Did you ever feel like you were actually driving that car? Probably not.
Now, before all you GT fans get on my case, I know that if you wanted, you COULD de-tune your car just a bit and/or turn up the difficulty to get more of a challenge out of your rivals... but I don't think anyone ever did. The gameplay was just unrewarding to many - the winners of the races were pretty much pre-determined, and the navigation of turns didn't require much concious thought after a while.
Anyone who's played GT3 can tell you a story that goes something like: The last race of the series was 100 laps, but I was 9 points ahead of the guy in 2nd, so all I would have to do is make sure that guy didn't get first and I'd win the series! So I spend 20 minutes constantly crashing into the guy in 2nd, until he was 10 laps behind, then quit the race thinking "cool - I just saved myself an hour of time," only to find out that the ****** finished in first place anyways!
But it wasn't just GT3 that was like that. GT1, GT2, GT3, and even GT4 were all the same way. They all looked AMAZING, they all had a SHITLOAD of cars, and they all drove amazingly realistic when stock. However, they all went from "video games" to "chores" by the 50% mark, they all started to feel mathematically predictable as you progressed, and they all offered less and less gameplay fun as the completion percentage climbed.
Now let's look at the Forza games...
In no way, shape, or form, do I find the graphics in Forza 2 to be anything beyond what the Sega Dreamcast was capable of, the replay angles suck - hell - the replay feature as a whole SUCKS. Neither game was really all that pretty to look at, nor did they have a very impressive selection of cars. When the dealerships in GT said "30 Hondas" available, they actually gave you 30 different Honda's to choose from. When the dealerships in Forza say "30 Hondas" available, what they really mean is they have 10 S2k's and 20 Civics available, each dressed up with a different company's logo.
GT seems like the all-around winner until you get your car out on the track. Once you put your rubber to the road you'll know where the Forza developers spent the majority of their time and money. The cars don't brake, gas, and steer with the mechanical perfection (or imperfection) that GT cars do. All the controls feel... "dirtier" than the GT counterparts, much like in the real world.
In the GT games, turns were about mashing the steering button all the way as you negotiated with the trottle. In Forza, however, you're working the wheel and the pedals around every turn, and no matter how many times you take the same turn, you'll never take it the same way twice. It may look the same to any spectators in the room, but your aching fingers know what really happened.
And as for the all-too-common GT strategy of "buy my <insert $18,000 car here>, max it out at the tuner shop, and win 85% of all the races in the game with the same entry-level car"? Yeah - that **** wont work in Forza. A hunk-o-**** car with 2000WHP & $30,000 suspension might handle like an Enzo in the world of GT, but on Planet Forza, it'll handle like the over-powered hunk-o-**** that it is.
Modifying cars in Forza requires a bit more brains than "one of everything, please." You need to pick your cars and your parts carefully if you plan on winning anything. While GT may think 5 stock Integras belong on the same track with a Jet-propelled Civic on F1 slicks, Forza will be more than happy to find you some tuned Vipers and Vettes to consume you.
FM2 actually requires you to know where you stand as a driver, and challenges you to intentionally de-tune your car in some ways if you think it'll give you that edge you need.
CliffNotes Version:
GT is all about recreating the visuals. Everything about the game, including the inflexible controls, are all there for one reason - to make the replay look INCREDIBLE.
Forza is all about recreating the feeling. Everything about the game is about managing and modifying your car to drive in a way so that you can control it - turning a car into your car.
Both games give 2 VERY different highs, thus I can't see the logic in comparing them.
It's like pitting Vodka up against Vicodine just because they both make you more giggly.
GT, since the original PSone version, has always put looking real above everything else. Second to appearence, came feel. The cars drive with as much realism as possible, but there have always been bizzare gaps in their physics.
Now, I wont lie - GT3 is still my favorite racing sim of all time, but it's certainly not the best. The replays were amazing to watch, and you can tell a great deal of time and effort went into the elaborate camera angles, the glorious backgrounds, and the Bemani-inspired music-video-style replay feature. But in terms of gameplay, the game was severely lacking. You ended up doing the exact same thing over and over and over and over and over. After passing the 10% mark in career mode, all you ever did was buy a car, buy every "racing" grade part in the shop, change your oil, and proceed blow the competition out of the water in their near-stock cars.
Races quickly became more of a mandatory waiting period between winning cars. I mean, let's be honest, as you were on lap 88 of the bone-stock-miata-marathon race, were you enjoying yourself in the least? Did you ever feel like you were actually driving that car? Probably not.
Now, before all you GT fans get on my case, I know that if you wanted, you COULD de-tune your car just a bit and/or turn up the difficulty to get more of a challenge out of your rivals... but I don't think anyone ever did. The gameplay was just unrewarding to many - the winners of the races were pretty much pre-determined, and the navigation of turns didn't require much concious thought after a while.
Anyone who's played GT3 can tell you a story that goes something like: The last race of the series was 100 laps, but I was 9 points ahead of the guy in 2nd, so all I would have to do is make sure that guy didn't get first and I'd win the series! So I spend 20 minutes constantly crashing into the guy in 2nd, until he was 10 laps behind, then quit the race thinking "cool - I just saved myself an hour of time," only to find out that the ****** finished in first place anyways!
But it wasn't just GT3 that was like that. GT1, GT2, GT3, and even GT4 were all the same way. They all looked AMAZING, they all had a SHITLOAD of cars, and they all drove amazingly realistic when stock. However, they all went from "video games" to "chores" by the 50% mark, they all started to feel mathematically predictable as you progressed, and they all offered less and less gameplay fun as the completion percentage climbed.
Now let's look at the Forza games...
In no way, shape, or form, do I find the graphics in Forza 2 to be anything beyond what the Sega Dreamcast was capable of, the replay angles suck - hell - the replay feature as a whole SUCKS. Neither game was really all that pretty to look at, nor did they have a very impressive selection of cars. When the dealerships in GT said "30 Hondas" available, they actually gave you 30 different Honda's to choose from. When the dealerships in Forza say "30 Hondas" available, what they really mean is they have 10 S2k's and 20 Civics available, each dressed up with a different company's logo.
GT seems like the all-around winner until you get your car out on the track. Once you put your rubber to the road you'll know where the Forza developers spent the majority of their time and money. The cars don't brake, gas, and steer with the mechanical perfection (or imperfection) that GT cars do. All the controls feel... "dirtier" than the GT counterparts, much like in the real world.
In the GT games, turns were about mashing the steering button all the way as you negotiated with the trottle. In Forza, however, you're working the wheel and the pedals around every turn, and no matter how many times you take the same turn, you'll never take it the same way twice. It may look the same to any spectators in the room, but your aching fingers know what really happened.
And as for the all-too-common GT strategy of "buy my <insert $18,000 car here>, max it out at the tuner shop, and win 85% of all the races in the game with the same entry-level car"? Yeah - that **** wont work in Forza. A hunk-o-**** car with 2000WHP & $30,000 suspension might handle like an Enzo in the world of GT, but on Planet Forza, it'll handle like the over-powered hunk-o-**** that it is.
Modifying cars in Forza requires a bit more brains than "one of everything, please." You need to pick your cars and your parts carefully if you plan on winning anything. While GT may think 5 stock Integras belong on the same track with a Jet-propelled Civic on F1 slicks, Forza will be more than happy to find you some tuned Vipers and Vettes to consume you.
FM2 actually requires you to know where you stand as a driver, and challenges you to intentionally de-tune your car in some ways if you think it'll give you that edge you need.
CliffNotes Version:
GT is all about recreating the visuals. Everything about the game, including the inflexible controls, are all there for one reason - to make the replay look INCREDIBLE.
Forza is all about recreating the feeling. Everything about the game is about managing and modifying your car to drive in a way so that you can control it - turning a car into your car.
Both games give 2 VERY different highs, thus I can't see the logic in comparing them.
It's like pitting Vodka up against Vicodine just because they both make you more giggly.
06-12-2007, 09:49 PM
#25
Vegas rx8!
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ok, after i read this thread...i went to 3 hollywood videos and 1 blockbuster looking for forza 2, all this talk about wheel pressure and fast, zoom zoom made me excited. Turns out there isnt an availiable forza 2 for rent (i dont have the immediate cash to go buy it.) so in desperate need of a video game to play i rented NFS carbon...its ok, but like all the NFS games it was completely unrealistic. Kinda fun to put a 11k wide body kit on an RX-8 in an hour or so. wewt =)