Cars today (including the RX-8) have Hydraulic assist clutch pedals. This means the clutch pedal is not directly connected (via a clutch fork) to the throw-out bearing. It is connected via an hydraulic line to the Clutch slave cylinder which is connected to the clutch fork to the throw-out bearing.

The big difference is the hydraulics assist and keep the effort to depress the pedal to a minimum effort. You younger guys and gals have probably never driven a non-hydraulic clutch car. My 1969 GTO clutch pedal required so much effort to depress the pedal, my leg would start to shake if I kept it depressed for a minute. You can't feel the pressure in todays cars because of the hydraulic assist.

What this all means is this: There is a tremendous amount of pressure on the throw-out bearing and the clutch fingers when the pedal is depressed, this most certainly will cause more wear, than when the pedal is not depressed. The throw-out bearing is a sealed unit packed with grease to lubricate the actual bearings inside it. It is only in contact with the clutch when the pedal is pressed. The longer it is in contact and spinning, the hotter the grease will become and eventually wear out.

Here is a link to show how this all works:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch3.htm

 

thats a damn good link. thanks

 

Personally, I think the likelihood of doing damage to your clutch over the long term by keeping it depressed for a minute or two at the odd set of lights is minimal.

The little driving instruction I've had has resulted in me learning two things: 1. when you pull up at a set of lights leave enough room between you and the car in front so you can see the wheels of the car in front touch the road, and 2. leave it in gear (clutch depressed) so that in the event of an emergency you can take off ASAP.

 

And by the way, this is what all the motorcycle safety people say too.

Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT

 

You guys are right. It's actually safer to hold the clutch in at a stop light, because if you for some reason were unable to control your vehicle i.e. you fainted, had a seizure, or whatever, the car would stall out and not go anywhere instead of rolling into more potential trouble. Personally I think that's worth anynegligible damage and wear that may occur. My mechanic stepdad also said that it was not really an issue anymore, as opposed to the Elder Days.

 

I keep the brake depressed to keep my brake lights on. With so many idiots on the road you never know who might think you're moving just cuz your brake lights aren't illuminated.

 

You should have your foot on the brake whether you have your foot on the clutch or have the trans in neutral. If you use the clutch to keep the car from rolling back, you are most definitely subjecting it to wear.

 

Good point. I always keep my foot on the brake when I'm the last car in a lane. I used to leave my foot off the brake, but sometimes you don't realize until you've started rolling because you are on a sliiiight slope. And it's a pretty jarring realization when you see the car next to you "move backward"! "What's that idiot doing?", followed by, "Oh s**t, it's me!", followed by slamming on the brake, followed by presumably red cheeks in embarrassment!

Now, if I remove my foot off the brake before I start, it's when the light has gone green and I'm ready to get going, just waiting for the car in front to get going.

 

Page 5-9 on the 2004 (US owners manual) :

' keep your foot off the clutch pedal except when shifting gears. Also don't use the clutch to hold the vehicle on an upgrade. Riding the clutch will cause needless clutch wear and damage.'

 

I agree: it's basic safety. Why ever sit on any surface without the brakes engaged? Even if I'm the first car at the light, on the flattest of roads, I am on the brakes, except the second or two before getting going.

If my 8 is stopped, for whatever reason, I am either on the brake pedal or the e-brake is up.

Sitting at stop lights without brakes is dangerous, because if someone rearends you, you can be thrusted into the intersection into a crossing car.

 

You younger guys and gals have probably never driven a non-hydraulic clutch car. My 1969 GTO clutch pedal required so much effort to depress the pedal, my leg would start to shake if I kept it depressed for a minute. You can't feel the pressure in todays cars because of the hydraulic assist.


6speed8,

You and I are definitely on the same page! My '71 Mach I taught me the same lessons about a clutch. Also, your later reference to the manual - "keep your foot off the clutch pedal except when shifting gears" is my basic philosophy.

Old guys can drive "new tech cars" too!!!

 

Turn this discussion around... why would you sit at a light with the clutch pedal depressed and the shift in gear?

There was only 1 positive for this action stated in the thread thus far. How about 4 more?

Personally, I am in the never touch the clutch except for shifitng camp.

 

To get a quicker start so that I can get ahead of the slow toad next to me who I've been stuck behind for 2 miles.

 

Holding down the clutch is asking for trouble, imo. Sure, IF you've left enough distance, and IF you're holding the brakes firmly... etc. But problems have a tendency to cascade. If you're in the habit of holding in the clutch, you really don't think about it after awhile. Then one day for some reason, your foot slips. Maybe you dropped something or kids misbehaving, you got a cramp, etc. Suddenly the car lurches forward. You're startled and bounced around. It's not unusual in that situation for someone to release the brake as well, as they try to make sense out of what just happened. You might even hit the gas. There's really no gain, so why do it? If you're paying attention, there's plenty of time to clutch and shift before you need to move.

 

Balderdash. The number of times this has happened to me in 20 years of manual driving is ZERO.

 

Same here.

I've logged 200K+ miles in manual transmission cars over the past 21 years of driving stick, always with the clutch and brake depressed and the transmission in gear at lights, with no problems with clutches or throwout bearings.

 

OK, so you don't like that what-if scenario, how about this one?

When you are sitting in the left lane and waiting to make a left turn, do you cut your wheels left or keep them straight until you initiate your turn?

Probably 99% of people will sit there with their wheels cut to the left but if you take a good defensive driving course you will have it drilled into your head that you sit there with the wheels straight ahead until you are ready to commit to the turn.

Why? Because if someone rolls into you from behind and your wheels are turned left they are going to push you into the oncoming traffic. You will have a head on collision that you could have avoided by keeping your wheels straight ahead.

Maybe it has never happened to you in your 200k miles of driving experience, but it can happen, and it does happen. Same as sitting at the light in gear with the clutch depressed. There are a lot of small things that you can do to reduce risks. Even when the risk is very low, if the effort to reduce the risk is low, why not take the effort?

 

If you release the clutch with the car in gear, the car will stall and not move much, so it soesn't matter if the brakes are let go. If you are not in gear then there is no reason to hold the clutch in at a light or a stop, anyway. It seems it would be more dangerous to be in neutral holding the brake, because the car would roll if you let off the brake for some reason. I NEVER cut my wheels before I turn, and didn't even before I took DDriving. That sort of anticipation leads to accidents.

 

I've been driving manual transmission vehicles for 42 years and never experienced the "problems" you assert. Quite to the contrary, having my car in gear at a stop light has saved me from being rear-ended by another vehicle a few times.

For those who do like to sit at stop lights with their car in neutral, well, that's fine except for one thing: please do not wait for the light to change to push in the clutch, select 1st gear and then engage the clutch to get moving. Many times I've seen the delay this causes in traffic flow to make the traffic signal think there's no more traffic approaching the intersection, so the light turns red prematurely.

1.3L

 

Letting go of the clutch while in gear would cause the car to lurch foward which is enough to cause damage even if minor if the brakes were not depressed. Having the car in neutral even when not in gear, the car would not roll fast enough to cause as great of a damage as the car lurching foward from the slipping of the clutch. Eitherway, whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

This is caused by drivers with slow reflexes which isn't entirely attributed to manual cars or putting the car in neutral. It happens with automatic drivers all the time because they're dumbasses!

 

I see what you're saying there. You could roll into traffic if you are the first car in line, though. I really like my space when I'm driving, so if I slipped off the clutch for some reason, I'd not be close enough to hit anyone ahead of me. I always leave some visible asphalt between me and the car in front of me at stops.

 

I'm not yielding the tiniest millimeter on this clutching issue. But side-question:

I keep them straight. You have to proceed into the intersection before you can start making the turn...

So I've never thought about this issue before, but you've got me thinking about it now. And as I think about it, I draw the exact *opposite* conclusion: turning the wheel left would be *better*.
If I get hit from behind and pushed into the intersection, wouldn't it be *better* to have the front of the car absorb the hit of an oncoming car rather than get hit in the *side*, where there's just a thin door protecting me? I feel I must be missing something here...

Krankor
05 Shinka 6MT

 

Um.. the situation from what I can tell is that you're in an unprotected left turn... and you're out in the intersection waiting to turn... so if you get hit.. and you move forward... to the left.. you will get hit on the front right corner.. or right body panel... where as if you went straight... you might just hit the other guy coming towards you also making their left turn.... to your right.. which is a more direct head on collision

 

Okay, lets get one thing straight. Having your foot on the clutch will not hurt your car, also every one should have their foot on the break at a stop light at all times, unless your dumb, and begging for a crash.

I work on cars all the time, I drove my fathers car for 3 years, it was 15 years old, stock trans, an it was still workin fine when I gave it back. I press the clutch in, and the break at every stop light for 3 years. In 15 year old Ford, and nuthin ever happend.

Only thing I had to fix at the end of it was the tires. Did one or two burn outs in the beast.

Peace yall,