Upcoming RX-8 Models
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From: Seattle, Wa
Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
...Anyway, what do you guys think about writing a letter to Mazda having us all sign it letting them know we love our 8's but would like a litte peak into the future of the RX8. Maybe I'm dreaming but you never know, maybe they would agree to let us know or have a slight peak into some stuff...
on the TT note, something to think about....
Last time I checked a few months ago, for the 2005 racing season in Grand Am the RX8 can have a 3 rotor TT motor. Now, Grand Am rules require homologation cars... put the two together and maybe a 385 hp TT 8 isn't really all that far-fetched of an idea.
Last time I checked a few months ago, for the 2005 racing season in Grand Am the RX8 can have a 3 rotor TT motor. Now, Grand Am rules require homologation cars... put the two together and maybe a 385 hp TT 8 isn't really all that far-fetched of an idea.
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Originally Posted by Genesis
Which thread?
This is the thread where he gets busted
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From: McKinney, Tx
I have to disagree with the TT. First, not against Mazda as I am very happy with my car at this point, but Mazda has not got the bugs ironed out of this car yet. They are getting close and it seems that most problems have been resolved. They are at a point now where they can sell the '8 and not have to worry about many problems. They wouldn't get it right, then immediately gamble with a TT.
Second, If they went TT, you and I all know they would have to do something... ANYTHING with the Transmission, Clutch, Etc.
By the way... If somehow this does happen and you are complaining about MPG now... STAY AWAY FROM TT!
Second, If they went TT, you and I all know they would have to do something... ANYTHING with the Transmission, Clutch, Etc.
By the way... If somehow this does happen and you are complaining about MPG now... STAY AWAY FROM TT!
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From: SF Bay Area, California
Instead of playing with the hydrogen idea, thinking about a natural gas-powered RX-8 would be more realistic. Does anyone know what does it take to do such a conversion? After all, taxicabs (like regular Ford Crown Vics and such) are running like that and perform reasonably well. Getting fuel would also be a lot simpler than finding hydrogen - just have to go to a propane-filling station. Have to admit, I have no idea how much a fill-up would cost...
Cars converted to run on natural gas can run on normal gasoline at the flick of a switch if so desired. The power is certainly less with running on natural gas than on gasoline, but seeing the less-than-stellar fuel economy of the rotary, it would make sense to have this option (unless filling up is prohibitively expensive).
The problems I see would be losing a significant amount of trunk space (where the gas tank would sit) and upsetting the 50/50 weight distribution (not sure how much). Sometimes I think I could live with both of these disadvantages.
Cars converted to run on natural gas can run on normal gasoline at the flick of a switch if so desired. The power is certainly less with running on natural gas than on gasoline, but seeing the less-than-stellar fuel economy of the rotary, it would make sense to have this option (unless filling up is prohibitively expensive).
The problems I see would be losing a significant amount of trunk space (where the gas tank would sit) and upsetting the 50/50 weight distribution (not sure how much). Sometimes I think I could live with both of these disadvantages.
Last edited by Tamas; Jan 10, 2005 at 02:28 PM.
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From: Cali
So I called the sales manager at the Local Mazda dealer and said that I wanted to order the mazda RX-8 Turbo. He said "The RX-8 special edition will not be available until next year. The Mazda-6 special edition (280 HP all-wheel drive) will be available this year.". I asked him if the RX-8 "Special Edition" will be turbocharged and he said "Yes, of course.". He took my number and promised to call me when they hit the US shores.
As far as hydrogen is concerned there are plenty of coverage on this car already. Most interesting (to ease some of the fears stated earlier in the group) the car can run on both hydrogen and gasoline.
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/215
http://motormouth.com.au/myresources...le=2003.11.RX8
Cuzzin
As far as hydrogen is concerned there are plenty of coverage on this car already. Most interesting (to ease some of the fears stated earlier in the group) the car can run on both hydrogen and gasoline.
http://rotarynews.com/node/view/215
http://motormouth.com.au/myresources...le=2003.11.RX8
Cuzzin
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From: NorCal
What made you think there was a twin-turbo RX-8 coming out in the future? People say lots of things, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true. Besides, the idea of a twin-turbo RX-8 has been discussed to death here, so there is no way of swaying the lot of us. I wish I was here earlier to warn you were going to get incinerated.
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From: PRC
Originally Posted by Tamas
Instead of playing with the hydrogen idea, thinking about a natural gas-powered RX-8 would be more realistic. Does anyone know what does it take to do such a conversion? After all, taxicabs (like regular Ford Crown Vics and such) are running like that and perform reasonably well. Getting fuel would also be a lot simpler than finding hydrogen - just have to go to a propane-filling station. Have to admit, I have no idea how much a fill-up would cost...
Cars converted to run on natural gas can run on normal gasoline at the flick of a switch if so desired. The power is certainly less with running on natural gas than on gasoline, but seeing the less-than-stellar fuel economy of the rotary, it would make sense to have this option (unless filling up is prohibitively expensive).
The problems I see would be losing a significant amount of trunk space (where the gas tank would sit) and upsetting the 50/50 weight distribution (not sure how much). Sometimes I think I could live with both of these disadvantages.
Cars converted to run on natural gas can run on normal gasoline at the flick of a switch if so desired. The power is certainly less with running on natural gas than on gasoline, but seeing the less-than-stellar fuel economy of the rotary, it would make sense to have this option (unless filling up is prohibitively expensive).
The problems I see would be losing a significant amount of trunk space (where the gas tank would sit) and upsetting the 50/50 weight distribution (not sure how much). Sometimes I think I could live with both of these disadvantages.
Companies are making hydrogen cars to look good and green. The RX8 hydrogen engine has a turbo and can also run gasoline at the flip of a switch. Single turbo would be my bet if any updated performance comes out, but I'd say 2007 at the earliest.
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From: Houston
Here's what I would think makes the most sense for Mazda to develop to get more power and why:
Turbo: Maybe??? Possibly??? There's a chance. Mazda engineers have actually admitted that the Renesis and the 13B respond very different to turbos due soley to the location of the exhaust ports. The 13B with it's peripheral exhaust ports have far more energy to spin the turbo with. Mazda originally used the twins on the RX-7 to get rid of the low end or high end tradeoff that is associated with singles. They also know they messed up doing so. The hydrogen Renesis was indeed a turbo but it was also a 4 port engine that only produced 200 hp or so and it had a small turbo. Hardly a performance choice.
Twin turbos: If Mazda uses this setup I will be extremely dissappointed. The RX-7 had damn near 70 vacuum hoses that went to various solenoids to help the transition from single to dual. These small turbos were not reliable and neither was the vacuum system. Mazda knows it and knows they messed up. I really doubt they are dumb enough to do this again. You never know though. Turbo systems in general tax the cooling and oil systems of a car far more than anything else including supercharging.
Centrifugal superchargers: Don't go there!
Positive displacement superchargers: Roots style: If the gain they want is small then they may in fact go this route. If it is sized right it will perform over a nice wide powerband. Maybe it isn't the most efficient thing on the planet but if you only want a 30 hp gain or so, it would work. I know people are hoping for a 350 hp RX-8 from Mazda but get real and just wake up from that dream. If you ever want a 350 hp RX-8, you're doing it through the aftermarket. This isn't their all out sports car.
Twin screw: Mazda has already used this in the Millenia S. It makes the most sense to me since it is the most efficient positive displacement supercharger and would have the widest powerband. Superchargers also don't require figuring out how to drastically change the exhaust system to deal with emissions. Minor changes only. Subaru solved this issue by putting the cats before the turbo on the WRX.
The last time there was both a turbo and nonturbo rotary offered at the same time was the 2nd gen RX-7. There indeed was a power increase mid model range as there has been with every RX-7 over it's life so there is something to possibly watch for. The nonturbo '86-'88 RX-7 made 146hp. The Turbo made 172hp. That's only 26 hp and for that they changed the entire engine and compression. From '89-'91 the nonturbo RX-7 made 160hp and the turbo made 200hp. They also redesigned the engine's to do this as well. Porting was revised, compression ratios were changed, ecu's were changed, etc. I really feel that we aren't going to see any higher than a possible 300 hp max from any upgraded RX-8. I hope I'm wrong.
Increase displacement: I believe this may have some merit but not for the RX-8. Maybe the next true rotary sportscar though. This car is really designed as a daily driver car that drives like a sports car. The car already gets low gas mileage. Larger displacement won't help. If there was a new RX-7 on the horizon, it would probably be priced over $40K (which would be sad) and mileage probably wouldn't be as much of an issue. This makes more sense. At least with forced induction, you are only using more fuel when your foot is pegged. Larger displacement always uses more.
My prediction for the RX-8 is some form of supercharger whether it be roots or twin screw and no more than 300 hp.
If we ever see a new RX-7, we may see a slightly larger engine but if not it will definitely be boosted. In what way since it is a true sports car is the real question.
Only time will tell.
Turbo: Maybe??? Possibly??? There's a chance. Mazda engineers have actually admitted that the Renesis and the 13B respond very different to turbos due soley to the location of the exhaust ports. The 13B with it's peripheral exhaust ports have far more energy to spin the turbo with. Mazda originally used the twins on the RX-7 to get rid of the low end or high end tradeoff that is associated with singles. They also know they messed up doing so. The hydrogen Renesis was indeed a turbo but it was also a 4 port engine that only produced 200 hp or so and it had a small turbo. Hardly a performance choice.
Twin turbos: If Mazda uses this setup I will be extremely dissappointed. The RX-7 had damn near 70 vacuum hoses that went to various solenoids to help the transition from single to dual. These small turbos were not reliable and neither was the vacuum system. Mazda knows it and knows they messed up. I really doubt they are dumb enough to do this again. You never know though. Turbo systems in general tax the cooling and oil systems of a car far more than anything else including supercharging.
Centrifugal superchargers: Don't go there!
Positive displacement superchargers: Roots style: If the gain they want is small then they may in fact go this route. If it is sized right it will perform over a nice wide powerband. Maybe it isn't the most efficient thing on the planet but if you only want a 30 hp gain or so, it would work. I know people are hoping for a 350 hp RX-8 from Mazda but get real and just wake up from that dream. If you ever want a 350 hp RX-8, you're doing it through the aftermarket. This isn't their all out sports car.
Twin screw: Mazda has already used this in the Millenia S. It makes the most sense to me since it is the most efficient positive displacement supercharger and would have the widest powerband. Superchargers also don't require figuring out how to drastically change the exhaust system to deal with emissions. Minor changes only. Subaru solved this issue by putting the cats before the turbo on the WRX.
The last time there was both a turbo and nonturbo rotary offered at the same time was the 2nd gen RX-7. There indeed was a power increase mid model range as there has been with every RX-7 over it's life so there is something to possibly watch for. The nonturbo '86-'88 RX-7 made 146hp. The Turbo made 172hp. That's only 26 hp and for that they changed the entire engine and compression. From '89-'91 the nonturbo RX-7 made 160hp and the turbo made 200hp. They also redesigned the engine's to do this as well. Porting was revised, compression ratios were changed, ecu's were changed, etc. I really feel that we aren't going to see any higher than a possible 300 hp max from any upgraded RX-8. I hope I'm wrong.
Increase displacement: I believe this may have some merit but not for the RX-8. Maybe the next true rotary sportscar though. This car is really designed as a daily driver car that drives like a sports car. The car already gets low gas mileage. Larger displacement won't help. If there was a new RX-7 on the horizon, it would probably be priced over $40K (which would be sad) and mileage probably wouldn't be as much of an issue. This makes more sense. At least with forced induction, you are only using more fuel when your foot is pegged. Larger displacement always uses more.
My prediction for the RX-8 is some form of supercharger whether it be roots or twin screw and no more than 300 hp.
If we ever see a new RX-7, we may see a slightly larger engine but if not it will definitely be boosted. In what way since it is a true sports car is the real question.
Only time will tell.
Last edited by rotarygod; Jan 10, 2005 at 08:16 PM.
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My father is the Mazda "Insider" and has informed me that there are no other "Insiders" except the other ones. He told me that Mazda has no plans to produce a hydrogen powered RX-8. The next major change to the RX-8 will occur with the 2007 RX-8, which will be powered by Honey Smacks. It is set to be released this summer. Mazda hopes to surprise the competition by releasing the car before 2006! Okay, gotta go now before my cereal gets soggy! :D
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From: Miami, FL
Im tired rightnow soIdidnt bother to read through all 3 pages but ifno one said this yet -- the twinturbo idea is bullshit b/c it wouldhave already been out in Japan ifit were coming out here this summer.
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Mazda is not going to do a Twin turbo setup on the RX-8, they may not even do a Turbo setup on the RX-8. The reason why Mazda decided not to Turbocharge the Renisis Engine is because it leaves more space. They were able to move the engine down, almost to the hieght of the Transmission, and back. Thus allowing for our great 50/50 weight ratio. So the designers obviously didn't want a turbo and won't do one. If there was going to be a TT RX-8 the whole car would be redesigned. Mazda USA may build one just like Mazda Australia and the Mazda USA supercharged RX-8 but it will never hit the public market, it just gets the guys who built it a pay raise and maybe a promotion. Sorry to tell you guys but Mazda truely didn't want it. All this information is in a service video they sent out to dealerships before the US release of the RX-8, there is a copy on TAKA's site.
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From: Middletown CT
This thread is hysterical. Mazda can't build ANY RX-8's now and won't be able to for at least three more months. Anybody remember a little something about a FIRE?
They're already doing an unplanned, unbudgeted emergency rebuild of a wrecked three vehicle assembly plant. Now some "insider" reports they're simultaneously going to whip out a redesigned engine? Well sure. Why not? I can hear the planning commitee like I was there:
"Hey guys. While we're rebuilding the plant why not quinzillion-tuplify our workload, startup complexities, avoidable costs and business risks by introducing a different engine? And let's base it on the one that nearly buried the company ten years ago. Ford will love it!"
That Mazda insider ain't gettin' inside my Mazda. The vapors might ruin my upholstery! :p
They're already doing an unplanned, unbudgeted emergency rebuild of a wrecked three vehicle assembly plant. Now some "insider" reports they're simultaneously going to whip out a redesigned engine? Well sure. Why not? I can hear the planning commitee like I was there:
"Hey guys. While we're rebuilding the plant why not quinzillion-tuplify our workload, startup complexities, avoidable costs and business risks by introducing a different engine? And let's base it on the one that nearly buried the company ten years ago. Ford will love it!"
That Mazda insider ain't gettin' inside my Mazda. The vapors might ruin my upholstery! :p