Unibody question
10-08-2004, 06:15 PM
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Unibody question
I searched on unibody, but could not find what I was looking for. I'm hoping someone here will know. I need some information to have an intelligent conversation with an insurance adjuster ...
My baby was sideswiped from a container truck who turned in front of me. Luckily, speeds were low, so no physical injury. The sideswiping, however, also pushed my car up onto the sidewalk, so not only is the entire left side of my car crumpled, but the right side wheels were cracked as well.
In the picture below there is a metal rail that has 2 spot welds to what I believe is the bottom of the A-pillar. Can anyone speak to whether that area of spot welding is part of the unibody? One of those spot welds has been pulled away as a result of this accident. You might see from the picture that the windshield at the location is cracked. I presume that occurred from the stress when the spot weld was broken. I am very concerned that if this is unibody damage at that location, the integrity and safety of the car is in question. Please help with opinions, and thanks in advance!
My baby was sideswiped from a container truck who turned in front of me. Luckily, speeds were low, so no physical injury. The sideswiping, however, also pushed my car up onto the sidewalk, so not only is the entire left side of my car crumpled, but the right side wheels were cracked as well.
In the picture below there is a metal rail that has 2 spot welds to what I believe is the bottom of the A-pillar. Can anyone speak to whether that area of spot welding is part of the unibody? One of those spot welds has been pulled away as a result of this accident. You might see from the picture that the windshield at the location is cracked. I presume that occurred from the stress when the spot weld was broken. I am very concerned that if this is unibody damage at that location, the integrity and safety of the car is in question. Please help with opinions, and thanks in advance!
10-08-2004, 10:07 PM
#2
"...I'm a Dapper Dan man"
Man that sucks. I hope that the driver stopped and offered to take care of it!
Looks like it will be an expensive repair.
Unibody stands for Unitized body construction. Whereas there is no separate body and frame. The entire structure is designed as a unit. Unlike most trucks where the body sits on a ladder type frame.
As to the spot weld I can't really say but I am sure the body shop will have the capability to take care of the welding.
Looks like it will be an expensive repair.
Unibody stands for Unitized body construction. Whereas there is no separate body and frame. The entire structure is designed as a unit. Unlike most trucks where the body sits on a ladder type frame.
As to the spot weld I can't really say but I am sure the body shop will have the capability to take care of the welding.
10-08-2004, 10:43 PM
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You have an excellent question there, unfortunately I can't answer it. But just by asking the right questions you have a head start in dealing with the insurance company. Take the car to a reputable body shop and ask one of them the same question.
Is the car drivable?
I hate seeing damage like that to one of these cars.
Glad you were not injured.
Is the car drivable?
I hate seeing damage like that to one of these cars.
Glad you were not injured.
10-09-2004, 12:21 AM
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Thanks for the comments. Yes, I am relieved, and thanking God that the truck's rear tires didn't reach me. Those were a foot off my rear fender.
The truck driver stopped, ran over and asked me over & over if we (my daughter in the car as well) were ok. We call 911, and the police did respond, and a police report was prepared.
Now, here's my problem with the body shop process: I drove the car to the nearest body shop, where the shop manager recommended I not drive the car due to damage in the engine area near airbag sensors. (I have yet to determine where those sensors are, but at the time believed him.) I left the car there for them to estimate. Then I learned a disconcerting thing: they told me they would fix the body, and if further damage showed up in that process, i.e. engine or suspension problems, they would just 'submit the bills to the insurance company.' After their 1st estimate I lost faith with them (they missed several critical components in their estimate), and had the car towed to another insurance-recommended shop. Same thing: I asked for the car to be put on a rack to check the alignment first. They told me they 'didn't do it that way'; they first do the body work, then take it to an alignment shop to have it aligned. Bass-ackwards, in my mind!! I figure, if there is suspension changes from what the car was set to (and luckily, I have a printout of what it is supposed to be since I had it set explicitly for autocrossing), then the accident stressed the suspension components, and a determination ought to be made about the degree to which the car has been damaged.
SO: now I will have the car towed to a 3rd shop!!! One which will not only have a body shop with mechanics that are certified to do unibody work, and proper welding equipment, but also has an alignment rack. But, all of this is moot if there is unibody damage. If there is, not only am I facing diminished value, but from some of the research I've done -- unibody construction is not meant to withstand multiple accidents. My conclusion would be, that safety would then be of concern, would the car be in another accident. Thus, the need to have this conversation with the insurance adjuster.
My recourse is to go to battle with the truck's insurance company, to be fully compensated. But, I know that when I do that, I am facing a lengthy process.
The truck driver stopped, ran over and asked me over & over if we (my daughter in the car as well) were ok. We call 911, and the police did respond, and a police report was prepared.
Now, here's my problem with the body shop process: I drove the car to the nearest body shop, where the shop manager recommended I not drive the car due to damage in the engine area near airbag sensors. (I have yet to determine where those sensors are, but at the time believed him.) I left the car there for them to estimate. Then I learned a disconcerting thing: they told me they would fix the body, and if further damage showed up in that process, i.e. engine or suspension problems, they would just 'submit the bills to the insurance company.' After their 1st estimate I lost faith with them (they missed several critical components in their estimate), and had the car towed to another insurance-recommended shop. Same thing: I asked for the car to be put on a rack to check the alignment first. They told me they 'didn't do it that way'; they first do the body work, then take it to an alignment shop to have it aligned. Bass-ackwards, in my mind!! I figure, if there is suspension changes from what the car was set to (and luckily, I have a printout of what it is supposed to be since I had it set explicitly for autocrossing), then the accident stressed the suspension components, and a determination ought to be made about the degree to which the car has been damaged.
SO: now I will have the car towed to a 3rd shop!!! One which will not only have a body shop with mechanics that are certified to do unibody work, and proper welding equipment, but also has an alignment rack. But, all of this is moot if there is unibody damage. If there is, not only am I facing diminished value, but from some of the research I've done -- unibody construction is not meant to withstand multiple accidents. My conclusion would be, that safety would then be of concern, would the car be in another accident. Thus, the need to have this conversation with the insurance adjuster.
My recourse is to go to battle with the truck's insurance company, to be fully compensated. But, I know that when I do that, I am facing a lengthy process.
10-09-2004, 08:50 AM
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dknv
The alignment will be off, and it is typical for a bodyshop to do the alignment last after the other repair work. The suspension is only meant to take normal lateral loads from vehicle dynamics, not impacts. If the rims are cracked from a side load, the alignment will be off, and depending on how hard the hit was, the lateral links could be bent. In short the suspension is not as strong as the rest of the cars structure so it bends and slips prior to any major damage (smart design).
The broken spot weld can be fixed. The repair weld can be stronger than the original if the shop knows what they are doing. Basically you need to find a shop you are comfortable with and has experience. Ask to see some similar work in progress, ask to see the welder, have them show you the process and tell you the details. If they want your business and are good at what they do they should be proud of the work currently in their shop.
The alignment will be off, and it is typical for a bodyshop to do the alignment last after the other repair work. The suspension is only meant to take normal lateral loads from vehicle dynamics, not impacts. If the rims are cracked from a side load, the alignment will be off, and depending on how hard the hit was, the lateral links could be bent. In short the suspension is not as strong as the rest of the cars structure so it bends and slips prior to any major damage (smart design).
The broken spot weld can be fixed. The repair weld can be stronger than the original if the shop knows what they are doing. Basically you need to find a shop you are comfortable with and has experience. Ask to see some similar work in progress, ask to see the welder, have them show you the process and tell you the details. If they want your business and are good at what they do they should be proud of the work currently in their shop.
10-09-2004, 10:19 AM
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dknv,
I too had the same questions. Another driver (without insurance, a driver's license, or a registration card) made an illegal left turn in front of me on the 7th of last month. I could not stop in time and plowed into his passenger side. Both airbags deployed and "stuff" was leaking from underneath. Long story short, I am using my uninsured motorist policy and had my car towed to the dealer I purchased the car from that has not only the parts and service department, but a body shop as well. The body shop manager explained that they put the car on a machine of some sort and the body is straightened to within 1mm of it's original position. Whatever. I don't see how my car (did I mention I only had it for a month) can be put back into "the condition it was in before the accident". I wish I could tell you how it turned out, but my car is still..........in the shop. According to the dealer they are having a hard time getting parts. This might prove to be your greatest challenge, as I hear this is pretty common with these cars. If the dealer can not get parts, who can? I am supposed to pick my car up some time next week. We shall see how it goes. Good luck to you.
I too had the same questions. Another driver (without insurance, a driver's license, or a registration card) made an illegal left turn in front of me on the 7th of last month. I could not stop in time and plowed into his passenger side. Both airbags deployed and "stuff" was leaking from underneath. Long story short, I am using my uninsured motorist policy and had my car towed to the dealer I purchased the car from that has not only the parts and service department, but a body shop as well. The body shop manager explained that they put the car on a machine of some sort and the body is straightened to within 1mm of it's original position. Whatever. I don't see how my car (did I mention I only had it for a month) can be put back into "the condition it was in before the accident". I wish I could tell you how it turned out, but my car is still..........in the shop. According to the dealer they are having a hard time getting parts. This might prove to be your greatest challenge, as I hear this is pretty common with these cars. If the dealer can not get parts, who can? I am supposed to pick my car up some time next week. We shall see how it goes. Good luck to you.
10-09-2004, 05:10 PM
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dknv,
oi812 is correct: the alignment will definitely be off due to the impact. It is completely illogical for the body shop to check and fix alignment before performing the body repairs. Also, ALL body shops know how to deal with unibody construction. 99% of cars sold today and ~50% of the SUVs use unibody construction, so I wouldn't worry about a body shop not knowing what to do with the car. Whether or not the car will ever regain its original structural integrity is not an easy question to answer. It depends on how much the steel body has deformed and whether it can be bent back close to its original form. Once steel has experienced plastic deformation, as opposed to elastic deformation, the original material properties (yield and ultimate strength) are permanently degraded. Unfortunately, if the cost of repairs is less than the value of vehicle, the insurance company will insist that the vehicle be repaired--even if the structural integrity is marginal. You may want to take action if this is the case. Ask around on the forum. I know some others have had battles with their insurance companies regarding repair vs. replacement/payout.
oi812 is correct: the alignment will definitely be off due to the impact. It is completely illogical for the body shop to check and fix alignment before performing the body repairs. Also, ALL body shops know how to deal with unibody construction. 99% of cars sold today and ~50% of the SUVs use unibody construction, so I wouldn't worry about a body shop not knowing what to do with the car. Whether or not the car will ever regain its original structural integrity is not an easy question to answer. It depends on how much the steel body has deformed and whether it can be bent back close to its original form. Once steel has experienced plastic deformation, as opposed to elastic deformation, the original material properties (yield and ultimate strength) are permanently degraded. Unfortunately, if the cost of repairs is less than the value of vehicle, the insurance company will insist that the vehicle be repaired--even if the structural integrity is marginal. You may want to take action if this is the case. Ask around on the forum. I know some others have had battles with their insurance companies regarding repair vs. replacement/payout.
10-14-2004, 01:10 AM
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Looks like a pretty hard hit but definetly repairable.
I'm a 3rd gen nut, look here for the cars I've had fixed.
For a quick glance look at the 1st and last pages:
http://community.webshots.com/album/89560034SgoVwL
Another:
http://community.webshots.com/album/69912816VsRYvb
Light repair:
http://community.webshots.com/album/69912816VsRYvb
What the shop can/should do is put the car on the frame rack, attach measuring system and make sure the car is straight. If it is not then they can "pull" it straight, repair the body. The suspension alignment is the last thing they do, if the body measures within tolerance (there IS a tolerance, every car is a little different) then the suspension will align fine. RX-8s, like 3rd gen RX-7s have a lot of adjustment in the suspension, if the frame wasn't straight it would still be possible to get a alignment within spec.
I'm a 3rd gen nut, look here for the cars I've had fixed.
For a quick glance look at the 1st and last pages:
http://community.webshots.com/album/89560034SgoVwL
Another:
http://community.webshots.com/album/69912816VsRYvb
Light repair:
http://community.webshots.com/album/69912816VsRYvb
What the shop can/should do is put the car on the frame rack, attach measuring system and make sure the car is straight. If it is not then they can "pull" it straight, repair the body. The suspension alignment is the last thing they do, if the body measures within tolerance (there IS a tolerance, every car is a little different) then the suspension will align fine. RX-8s, like 3rd gen RX-7s have a lot of adjustment in the suspension, if the frame wasn't straight it would still be possible to get a alignment within spec.
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