Turn off that DSC and Traction Control...
 

Because it works too well! Okay, I realize that sounds stupid. I leave mine on most of the time. But I realized something this week - leaving it on all the time has forced me to, unknowingly, rely on it.

We all know how to turn the systems off right - press the button (turns the DSC off) hold the button for 7 or 8 seconds - turns off the traction control.

This week, I started turning it off as soon as I started the car. Then, I'd drive as I usually do. This pointed something out to me - I drive the car hard. I found that I was routinely accelerating hard enough in turns, to make the back end step out - sometimes a lot. Of course, with the system on, nothing happens - you just go!

I guess my point is that leaving the system on all the time, you won't really "learn" how to drive the car at the limits - in the pure sense. But, if you never turn the system off... the point's moot - the system's got your back. Oh, it later dawned on me that cops kind of frown on little red sports cars drifting around ramps... ;) I may have to go back to letting the systems do their job...
-Mark

Yeah, don't drive like a douche on public streets.

I can back the end out if i wanted to by going down a gear and flooring it...its just that the car will correct it immediately..but you can still step it out. If you want to learn to drive the car to its limits, do it at the track. If you want to drive the car hard and reduce your risk of hurting yourself due to a brain fart, leave it on.

Quick note: I don't need a lecture on safe driving - I haven't had a ticket of any kind in over 10 years. Nor have I damaged a street car (off-road is a different story) in any way in 20 years.

Save your &*$ing holyier than thou crap. We all drive our cars hard. My point was related to learning the car. Of course I don't advocate unsafe driving. The idea is to recognize that point of slip/slide and not go there again - unless you're on a track. Oh, and note the avatar - I do drive on a track.

I think Blue Eyes stated it as succinctly as possible...

Sorry - my intention with the ;) was that I was kidding - I don't "drift" around onramps. Ocassionally, the back end will step out - sometimes a lot. This is that "learning" thing I was referring to. Damn, you guys are some uptight pussies.

I have pictures of my 8 on a track and I have pictures of my 8 totaled on a public road because I turned my DSC off before I knew what the hell I was doing. I agree it is important to learn what the car can do and doing it on a track is the best way (for me). If I turn off my DSC, it is for one reason ONLY, to be aggressive. Why would I do that on public roads? You can be aggressive and leave the DSC on. This is my personal opinion and I respect yours. Since you opened the discussion up I should hope that you will respect mine.

Forms of traction control have been shown in certain studies to reduce single-vehicle accidents by 40%. Compare that to ABS; 0% reduction of any accidents.

Yeh..I think your misinterperted what I said. When I said "if you want to drive the car hard and reduce your risk of hurting yourself due to a brain fart, leave it on.", I meant "you" as in people in general, not specifically you. That being said, maybe you need to calm the $%#@ down. No one here is preaching to you...calling people here uptight Pussies isnt the best way to respond. Ill be the first to apologize if you thought I was attacking you. I wasnt. Oh and my avatar, thats me at the track as well on two wheels.

I've found that this car is really subtle and gentle in the way it loses control and the way it's traction control works.

When it's traction control is at work, it doesn't intrude making it really obvious that's there. Yet when it's off, the car lets you know that it's going to lose it without suddenly just snap the rear end out. I really love this car!

Okay - Sorry. I apologize... really. I did misinterpret the "you". And, you're right... I need to come the *@$! down. Sorry for that too.

My intent was purely constructive. Clearly I need to choose my word more carefully... By the way - love the avatar...

I do respect your opinion... thanks for that comment. My goal in turning the system off is to find that line between slip and slide (not the kids' toy... that technical thing the pros talk about) - feeling the limit of the tires/car (slip) without breaking loose (slide) thus remaining in total control (a relative term I realize). And absolutely, the track is the best place for this. But pushing the car (not drifting) on an onramp now and then is about the extent of my "unsafe" driving...

It is a good feeling when it is on the edge. I'm not experienced enough to feel safe with it presently. The autocross track is great for that. The only problem is that 4 runs at 60 seconds is just not enough time for me to really get the feel and it leaves me wanting more. Next month a group of us are renting a road course for a Saturday. We have a group of instructors and with only 10 people we will probably be tired of driving before the day is over. I will be learning the limits with the stability turned off and I'm excited as a little girl. My goal is to learn the limits without breaking loose as you said.

At times some on this forum tend to make comments about others though its a possibility themselves may have also indulged in a little foot happy horse play, course I may also be wrong of those someones :boring:

If you can see the lights going off, thats a pretty good sign that the car was sliding and the previous action is what caused it. I dont know about you but I can feel the DSC and the car starting to slide so I've got a pretty good idea what actions cause the car to want to move off line.

Driving (very carefully) this wet morning in my 7, I was wishing it had DSC/TC.

Also note my non-track avatar lol

lol, you guys have it good, my 8 doesn't have dsc or tcs, sometimes i wish i had it, one day it was ridiculous, with the stock so4 tires, at like 10 mph, the back swung out while taking a left on the first rain.

How do you turn on the TCS after you turn it off? Pushing or holding the bottom wont do it - turning off the car will, is this the only way?

It's the only one I know of

I was glad my DSC was on the other day. It was a light rain and I went to second gear and went on it hard when it hit the power power band about 5500rpm it tried to kick out, but the DSC kicked in and brought it back under control. :doh:

It still kicked out pretty far and it happened in a split second, if the DSC had been off I may have crashed due to I was coming upon a curve. :spank:

:worship: for DSC !!!!!!

Yeah, you've got to turn the car off and back on...

i hardly ever take mine off unless i'm on a road trip [interstate] which gives me about 5 more mpg's..or unless i take 1 of my friends for a quick ride.

Great contribution to the topic here. Thank you for the obvious. He who does not even have an 8 nor dcs/tcs.

I occasionally switch it off but only for a moment, and only for a specific purpose - like wanting to feel that total rush to 60-70 mph at WOT - the wheelspin on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts causes the traction control to intervene and kill the fun.

That and when I occasionally take my 10 year old sons out on a snowy evening and we go drift around our cul-de-sac at a whopping 15 mph ... they love the oversteer!

SC

I would highly recommend keeping DSC/TC turned on while on public roads. If you want to learn how to drive close to edge the best is a kart track where you can truely push it and not worrying about damaging anything.

Do the base model 6MT have traction control? I feel bad if they dont. I took my traction control off the other day just to see what would happen and well, I dont think I will be doing that again anytime soon. It was fun though, and there wasn't anyone else around so I was safe about it.

Unless you're on a "closed course", don't turn it off... period: https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/w00t-ice-storms-got-rear-ended-78716/

I think enough stories and pictures have been posted here to convince people not to disable your DSC/TCS. It's a bad idea if you have calibrated your driving skills to a car with "help" systems such as these, and then drive out of your limits without them.

cgseanp, base models do not have these "help" systems. It's different if you have driven the car without it since day one. The 8 is very forgiving even without them, but like I said, don't do it if you are used to driving with them on. I've had my share of accidental drifts, but it was mostly due to bad stock tires. I have RB Rear sways w/stock front sways. And although most people here theorize that it would throw oversteer on the car, it's actually quite manageable. If anything, I still suffer certain understeers. Perhaps it's too fast of entry speeds.

It actually scares me more when I'm driving FWD or other cars, because I tend to drive them like I do in my 8. Last time I drove someone elses FWD car, the owner complained how slow I was driving. I felt like I was driving without gravity. I haven't driven an 8 with DSC yet. I would probably be more sensitive to the system overriding my inputs, since I'm used to driving without them.

nope hahah, aka my 8, but it's cool, i drive conservatively for the most part and even when it does slide, i've been handling it ok.

if you guys are experimenting (in a safe place!) the key is to not touch the brake cuz it'll cause u to spin out, just keep ure foot on the gas a little bit, hold mild to moderate countersteer and adjust both depending on the corner an u'll be fine, if u wanna be smooth at the end, press the gas harder to keep the traction loose before ure car straightens outs (warning: this will extend the horizontal distance u cover on the road so watch out). u probably wanna try it not on a corner first (cones in a parking lot are good) so u know what's happening before hand and you don't panic. but i suppose keep the traction control on if u have it lol, u guys make it sound so good, i kinda wanna see what it's like with it :) oh yea, the bad side-effect is that u go through tires quite fast if u do too much practising, i went through 3 sets this summer.

anyways, be careful guys!

I usually just defeat the DSC most of the time.

On occasions when the I have felt the DSC kick in (harsh braking to the right rear wheel usually) it catches me off guard and almost brings my car to a halt mid-corner. This interupts my flow of driving and I prefer not to feel it during normal driving.

On the other hand with the DSC off (or everything off) in the same corner/situation, once I detect some slippage, I simply ease up on the gas and the car steps right back in line.

The RX-8 is very balanced and does a good job of reading the road and relaying that info to the driver. For the most part when it does start to lose controll, like someone said above it is in a very slow, predictable and easily controllable way.

I do drive in town (under 50 mph) most of the time and winter is not an issue in this area. In highspeed (windy back country road/interstate) or rainy situations I leave everything on and I don't recommend that everybody turn off any or all of these driving aids, but some of us can and do drive w/o them. It depends on your experience with RWD cars and overall driving experience in general (not to mention knowing your car's limits).

I'm rocking a Base 6MT (No DSC) and loving every minute of it!!!
 

Mwuuuuh hah hah hah hah!

If you never learned with a small block muscle car on a country dirt road, or messed around with dirt bikes, or drove lesser-powered RWD cars long before the age of ABS, TCS, DSC, and all that mess, or you haven't been to driver's school, KEEP THOSE AIDS ON!!!

I learned to drive when I was 12 years old, out in the country side in a 4 speed rally prepped Datsun 510, sitting in my dad's lap. Driving tractors and riding dirt bikes didn't hurt either in developing "skills".

I never spun my '84 RX-7 GSL-SE, '85 944, '88 MR2, '88 Mustang 5.0 LX Sedan, '98 F-150, or my beloved Base 8. In fact the only cars I've ever spun were a '78 and '90 Civic. FWD cars will snap spin if you really push them.

I truly believe in all the modern aids, but my analogy is like that of using a calculator: You still need to know the math.

As an aside, my wife just totalled her Audi A4 with Quattro and I somehow talked her into a Mercedes C280 - RWD and 230 HP. I tried to explain about how AWD and FWD kills steering feel - and she got it! The C280 (3 liter 24 valve six with lots of high tech stuff though no direct injection, and, get this, a SEVEN speed automatic) has lots of torque - it's a surprisingly quick car. So there are no AWD or FWD vehicles in our garage - but at least she has DSC! That thing is schweet. We also tested the new 3 series - I am a died in the wool straight six guy - and they have totally screwed up the steering with the new computer assisted b*llsh*t they call steering feel. Yuck. And, the lesser six is pretty weak feeling. D'oh! I used to have an E36 and it was the best car I've ever had. Long live the king, the king is dead.... unless you're talking about a well optioned 330 or an M3, but for that many large you'd be better of buying investment property...or cranking up that Epson down in the basement to print up some more Dead Prezzidents.

OK, back on topic, the 8 will give you some ridiculousy wide yawing Dukes of Hazzard oversteer all day long with out losing the rear end. It will just swing out and stay out forever as long as you maintain the turn and keep your revs up. A very easy car to drive. The Torsen is fantastic and really puts the power down effectively and controllably - and it also works when decellerating/braking.

Yes, the OEM summer tires are truly atrocious in anything less than 80F temps. FORGET about snow, in fact, driving thru tepid cat pee on the stocks is not recommended and can lead to dissappointment. After wearing out the OEM Bridgestones at 30K miles I got the Avon All Seasons and they rock for traction in cold and wet (and hopefully, frozen) weather, but give up some sidewall stiffness and transitional feel.

Of course, I don't want to suggest that the unknowing go out and wrap their 8's around telephone poles thinking that they're Luke Duke when they're not even Roscoe P Coltrain, but the 8, like any fundamentally well designed car, is not going to roll into a flaming ball of death when you turn off or otherwise drive with out computer stability aids. Just don't be a dumb@ss, dumb@ss.

OK I'll shut up now. I'm all alone in Key Largo FL at the Sheraton (for work....) drinking house pour red wine and looking forward to getting home to see my wife and friends and celebrate XMas...

Cheers.

^^ That was a great post!

Learning to drive at the limits is not something you do on public roads.

Thanks Mom. Damn. Some of you guys are *@#&ing amazing. How many times have I got to say - I don't drive around town "at the limits". On ocassion, on an onramp, I'll get in it 'till I can feel the rear tires start to slip (not slide). Damn. Quit being such a whiny pussy.

When I turned 16 my father enrolled me into the 3 day Skip Barber racing school. I knew how to drive a stick before getting there but I really fine tuned my shifting and heel-toe shifting there. Absolutely amazing. So in my teenage years my father had 3 '96 mustangs, two Cobras and one GT and unfortunately I had to take one of those to school everyday (poor me right?). So of course I played with those things and whipped the tail end around, extemely easy in those cars....but today my 8 really surprised me. I was in the city and I was turning right onto a one way, no one was around so I punched it in second and the rear end went out with the DSC on. It really caught me off guard. I didn't think it would break loose.

So after that i turned the DSC and Traction Control off and did it again. The rear end on this car is extremely easy to whip around. Easier than the Mustangs. So I'm wondering, is the car really that powerful or are the tires just that bad?! Or is it a combination of both?

Also, I just bought the car two weeks ago so please don't flame me, but when you turn off the DSC and TC, how do you turn the systems back on? I tried holding the DSC button down but that didn't do anything. I guess I should go read the manual.....

After restarting the car you will have it back, that's the only way unless you just turned off the DSC. That is just a button push back.

the stock tires are really bad on wet ground, avon tech m550 tires are a great relatively cheap switch, it's a completely different machine after you loose the bridgestones. Much more durable too, one set of bridgestones wore out in only 2000 miles, i'm still rolling on the avons.

Sorry to jump in so late on this thread, but this is my 2nd post only since I just got my RX8. Can the OP or someone else clarify the button sequence to turn the DSC/TC off?? The manual says just push the button, but the OP says push it for several seconds...does this trigger a 'secret' secondary switching?? e.g. does the first press only turn off DSC, while the extended press turns off TC as well...or something along those lines?
TIA

You got it :jump:

Thanks...good to know. so then, you can turn DSC off but leave TC on, and then have the add'l option to turn the TC off (DSC off too).
So assuming *dry* conditions, what does this last option do to the driving experience?? seems like TC only will make itself known in extremely low-speed/launch situations? is there any benefit to AutoXing with the TC-on/DSC-off??
Sorry for all the noob questions; the weather's horrible in NorCal and my brand new car is sitting in the garage!

Did you just make that up? ABS are probably still, to this day, one of the best safety items on a modern day car to help you avoid hitting another object…

Were you by the MAX tracks or the street car tracks, because that will definitely do it, especially if the ground was wet.

I read that somewhere, too, about the traction control.

not the ABS part, though

Resurrecting an oldie....because I can't post new threads for some reason


Is there some way to reprogram or ease up on the sensitivity of the DSC?


I'm new to the RX8...
I own a dealership so I drive all the fun/fast cars...
I like to do the odd spirited driving on the way home i.e. hard cornering and occasional drifting around the rotary when no one is around.


This car scares the crap out of me when it kicks in for no apparent reason.
When the car is no where the limit of the sticky tires i have on it, ii will get the rear abs chatter when I least expect it.
I've seen it happen just taking an off ramp faster than the speed limit.
I am no where near any kind or skid or slide in these situations.
I'm not a fan of turning it off....I've experience what can happen when you exceed your limits...it's not fun.

Nope!
DSC is either on or off for all cars period!

From what I experienced the DSC is pretty sporty set up on the RX-8. It does not kick in until you are going sideways a little bit unlike the Toyota I have which kicks in when there is some gravel on the road.
You can turn it off but make sure you are a decent driver and has done some track days.

It happened this morning turning right at the lights. I was taking the turn pretty easy and it kicked in.....maibe I have an issue...

Yes, could well be an issue. As I recall, many reviews remarked about how well tuned those controls were, letting you get away with a lot before they kick in.

130K miles, all is good.
At about 100k I started turning it off, not sure why.
I crashed soon enough.
$1800 later, the thing stays on now.
Nuff Said.

Re-check the tires sizes and pressures. I can have all 4 tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cups) squealing without it intervening at all. If you have a sensor issue or a tire diameter issue, you could easily cause it to start triggering WAY early.