View Poll Results: Which one would you get for your 8?
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll
Turbocharged or SuperCharged?
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,625
Likes: 5
From: USA
Not sure what you're getting at. Last I checked, there's far fewer SC's sold than TC. But I've been off the forum for months, so maybe I'm out of touch.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
Not sure what you're getting at. Last I checked, there's far fewer SC's sold than TC. But I've been off the forum for months, so maybe I'm out of touch.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
In consideration, I love the stock look, with the MS wing over all other external mods I've seen. I don't even like it lowered..
whines all the way home
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,402
Likes: 2
From: Towson/Baltimore, MD
Dont worry Bastage, with Moon move up to here in Baltimore I have a feeling our photoshoots will start to stack up,,, we already have myself, Shinka213(Pat) and DogPound52 up here we just need to start coordinating shoots...
whines all the way home
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,402
Likes: 2
From: Towson/Baltimore, MD
Not sure what you're getting at. Last I checked, there's far fewer SC's sold than TC. But I've been off the forum for months, so maybe I'm out of touch.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
The last big car meet I went to in FL was about a year ago, and the RX-8 that won the show was a stock RX-8 with a giant sticker on the hood. The turnouts here blow.
Life begins @ 30 psi
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MD
Hell, I'll just be glad if we start seeing more FI RX-8s at the MD meets. How many of the 19 at the PA Sushi Night were FI besides you? Btw Greg, your car sounded freaking awesome coming up the parking garage when you got there for the Towson meet. Supercharger whine echoing through the garage all the way to the top.
Regardless of your choice of FI, do your research, and don't take chances with unproven products.
I lost 4 posts somewhere... bah, I'll get to 1000 again in a month or so I'm sure
mod edit
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, Oregon
Here's a direct link to me downshifting (no throttle at all) then hitting the throttle. It looks like there's about 200-300 rpm before it gives me the max boost set by the boost controller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUoA0RuD7Pk#t=1m20s
Keep in mind this was filmed before I had the boost controller settings setup really nicely, so if you watch the entire video, you'll see that I thought I could get max boost about 1,000 rpm earlier.
By the end of tweaking it, I could get 10-12 psi by ~2800 rpm. So if the WG door wasn't fully shut in the video, the 200-300 rpm time before max boost was reached could have been lower because a partially open WG allows air to bypass the turbo and increase spool time.
Either way, 300 rpm to hit 10 psi isn't a big deal. It's insignificant. You'll note boost was increasing during the 300 rpm, so it was already climbing and making more power than stock before that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUoA0RuD7Pk#t=1m20s
Keep in mind this was filmed before I had the boost controller settings setup really nicely, so if you watch the entire video, you'll see that I thought I could get max boost about 1,000 rpm earlier.
By the end of tweaking it, I could get 10-12 psi by ~2800 rpm. So if the WG door wasn't fully shut in the video, the 200-300 rpm time before max boost was reached could have been lower because a partially open WG allows air to bypass the turbo and increase spool time.
Either way, 300 rpm to hit 10 psi isn't a big deal. It's insignificant. You'll note boost was increasing during the 300 rpm, so it was already climbing and making more power than stock before that point.
200-300 rpm to reach max boost is not insignificant. It may not be long enough to be annoying, but it certainly is different than the response of stock. This difference may or may not be a good thing depending on your opinion, but it is certainly significant and obviously would effect the way you would work the throttle during various driving maneuvers. Also, the gradual climbing of power during that rpm range as you squeeze the throttle would clearly offer a different, softer response to throttle input, versus a throttle that gives you 100 percent available torque instantly (minus the actual electronic throttle response time itself, which would be there anyway regardless of turbo or NA. ) .
whines all the way home
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,402
Likes: 2
From: Towson/Baltimore, MD
Hell, I'll just be glad if we start seeing more FI RX-8s at the MD meets. How many of the 19 at the PA Sushi Night were FI besides you? Btw Greg, your car sounded freaking awesome coming up the parking garage when you got there for the Towson meet. Supercharger whine echoing through the garage all the way to the top.
Life begins @ 30 psi
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, MD
I think it was just me... There were a couple new faces that I wasnt familiar with thier cars, but didnt se any FMICs so I think I was the only one... BaysJ is up and running now I think hes still go tsome ignition bugs now that BHR essentially made a recall,,, So it will still be an elite club in the MD...
Doppelgänger
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 1
From: Florida
200-300 rpm to reach max boost is not insignificant. It may not be long enough to be annoying, but it certainly is different than the response of stock. This difference may or may not be a good thing depending on your opinion, but it is certainly significant and obviously would effect the way you would work the throttle during various driving maneuvers. Also, the gradual climbing of power during that rpm range as you squeeze the throttle would clearly offer a different, softer response to throttle input, versus a throttle that gives you 100 percent available torque instantly (minus the actual electronic throttle response time itself, which would be there anyway regardless of turbo or NA. ) .
When you give the car throttle from idle, your vehicle is making barely any hp. The same is true even with FI. Pushing additional air in only does so much, especially when tied to exhaust gas or engine rpm.
mod edit
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, Oregon
As long as you understand that the boost is completely configurable (as far as the hardware allows).
When you give the car throttle from idle, your vehicle is making barely any hp. The same is true even with FI. Pushing additional air in only does so much, especially when tied to exhaust gas or engine rpm.
When you give the car throttle from idle, your vehicle is making barely any hp. The same is true even with FI. Pushing additional air in only does so much, especially when tied to exhaust gas or engine rpm.
Doppelgänger
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 1
From: Florida
you make it sound worse than it really is.
when you're NA, there is a delay between throttle input and increase in power (as has been mentioned already), BUT the increase in power is so slight that the perceived "lag" is far more significant because you need high rpms to get any power out of the vehicle. I remember turning off my boost controller, forgetting about it, and flooring it. The difference between a turbo and NA was so great that I thought my engine was blown or something because it wasn't accelerating with WOT. No... it wasn't blown, the car without boost has really poor acceleration.
12 psi at 3,000 rpm on a turbo means the vehicle is already generating more torque at that point than the stock NA car at it's peak. You can also adjust the wastegate so that it's cracked open a bit so there is no sudden jarring power and instead it climbs more smoothly, if that is your desire.
when you're NA, there is a delay between throttle input and increase in power (as has been mentioned already), BUT the increase in power is so slight that the perceived "lag" is far more significant because you need high rpms to get any power out of the vehicle. I remember turning off my boost controller, forgetting about it, and flooring it. The difference between a turbo and NA was so great that I thought my engine was blown or something because it wasn't accelerating with WOT. No... it wasn't blown, the car without boost has really poor acceleration.
12 psi at 3,000 rpm on a turbo means the vehicle is already generating more torque at that point than the stock NA car at it's peak. You can also adjust the wastegate so that it's cracked open a bit so there is no sudden jarring power and instead it climbs more smoothly, if that is your desire.
mod edit
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, Oregon
you make it sound worse than it really is.
when you're NA, there is a delay between throttle input and increase in power (as has been mentioned already), BUT the increase in power is so slight that the perceived "lag" is far more significant because you need high rpms to get any power out of the vehicle. I remember turning off my boost controller, forgetting about it, and flooring it. The difference between a turbo and NA was so great that I thought my engine was blown or something because it wasn't accelerating with WOT. No... it wasn't blown, the car without boost has really poor acceleration.
12 psi at 3,000 rpm on a turbo means the vehicle is already generating more torque at that point than the stock NA car at it's peak. You can also adjust the wastegate so that it's cracked open a bit so there is no sudden jarring power and instead it climbs more smoothly, if that is your desire.
when you're NA, there is a delay between throttle input and increase in power (as has been mentioned already), BUT the increase in power is so slight that the perceived "lag" is far more significant because you need high rpms to get any power out of the vehicle. I remember turning off my boost controller, forgetting about it, and flooring it. The difference between a turbo and NA was so great that I thought my engine was blown or something because it wasn't accelerating with WOT. No... it wasn't blown, the car without boost has really poor acceleration.
12 psi at 3,000 rpm on a turbo means the vehicle is already generating more torque at that point than the stock NA car at it's peak. You can also adjust the wastegate so that it's cracked open a bit so there is no sudden jarring power and instead it climbs more smoothly, if that is your desire.
HAHAHA, yes, 0-1/4 mile in 14.5 is "really poor acceleration", so is 0-60 in 6.0.
Anyway, I am talking about the actual response characteristics/dynamics of throttle input, not so much the actual shape or size of the torque curve as collected from a dynometer. Obviously with turbo boost, you will be far more torque even at low revs than you will ever get with NA even at high revs. But the actual throttle response dynamics will ALWAYS be superior with the stock NA setup.
Your claim that the actual perceived lag in throttle response being far more significant in the NA setup versus FI is hilarious. Did you just say that?
By throttle response and lag, I don't mean actual power output, I mean actual throttle response characteristics. Of course you make way more torque at pretty much all revs with turbo, but the actual throttle response is always superior with NA.
Doppelgänger
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Your claim that the actual perceived lag in throttle response being far more significant in the NA setup versus FI is hilarious. Did you just say that?
mod edit
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, Oregon
When you can stomp on the throttle, eat a bigmac, take a sip of coke, then yawn before you need to worry about breaking the speed limit, then yes.
Yes, because the throttle isn't changed with FI. It's the same car. The throttle response is exactly the same, you just get a buttload of power shortly after. I understand what you're trying to say, but as I said earlier, my point is that it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
Yes, because the throttle isn't changed with FI. It's the same car. The throttle response is exactly the same, you just get a buttload of power shortly after. I understand what you're trying to say, but as I said earlier, my point is that it isn't as bad as you make it out to be.
Anyway, think of it like this: It really would explain what I am saying more if you think of the throttle as the actual throttle pedal itself. The response is the dynamics involved in getting the motor to go from 0% available torque to 100% available torque when the throttle pedal is depressed thru its full range. I realize the electronic throttle is unchanged, but effectively, when pressing the throttle pedal down, there is more time required for a gradual increase in torque from 0-100% with the turbo. The pedal is what connects your brain-foot-to motor. The lag, or gradual increase with the turbo DOES change the throttle response. The "buttload of power" you get "shortly after" IS part of the throttle response experienced by the driver. So yes the response is changed, in a bad way.
Doppelgänger
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,192
Likes: 1
From: Florida
Let me try explaining it a different way.
Let's just assume it's all linear and it takes 300 rpm to hit 10 psi of boost, 150 rpm to hit 5 psi of boost, 75 rpm is 2.5 psi. Your throttle response is still there. You just have a sharper climb. Whereas with stock, you'd hit the throttle, you go from -20 inHg to -10 inHg, and that's it.
It's not an all or nothing. The boost threshold doesn't mean you get no power gains over stock before hitting your desired boost level. You make more power than stock almost all the time, including cruising (since the turbo is still spinning and pushing more air in than if the engine had to suck it in). So even applying small partial throttle changes gives you more acceleration and more "response" than if you were stock. To me that makes my throttle response far BETTER because I can advance the throttle by 3% and increase acceleration the same as if you had done 15% in a NA car. This throttle response IS instant.
Let's just assume it's all linear and it takes 300 rpm to hit 10 psi of boost, 150 rpm to hit 5 psi of boost, 75 rpm is 2.5 psi. Your throttle response is still there. You just have a sharper climb. Whereas with stock, you'd hit the throttle, you go from -20 inHg to -10 inHg, and that's it.
It's not an all or nothing. The boost threshold doesn't mean you get no power gains over stock before hitting your desired boost level. You make more power than stock almost all the time, including cruising (since the turbo is still spinning and pushing more air in than if the engine had to suck it in). So even applying small partial throttle changes gives you more acceleration and more "response" than if you were stock. To me that makes my throttle response far BETTER because I can advance the throttle by 3% and increase acceleration the same as if you had done 15% in a NA car. This throttle response IS instant.
200-300 rpm to reach max boost is not insignificant. It may not be long enough to be annoying, but it certainly is different than the response of stock. This difference may or may not be a good thing depending on your opinion, but it is certainly significant and obviously would effect the way you would work the throttle during various driving maneuvers. Also, the gradual climbing of power during that rpm range as you squeeze the throttle would clearly offer a different, softer response to throttle input, versus a throttle that gives you 100 percent available torque instantly (minus the actual electronic throttle response time itself, which would be there anyway regardless of turbo or NA. ) .
