Ike

I rarely post on other car forums besides this one. Despite the fact that fanbois such as yourself that like to follow me around, I rather like the community.

Even if this trackday did happen, how does this tie into some secret Mitsubishi corporate program? Half a dozen cars were denied warranty work directly because of this trackday and "rode the chain all the way up to corporate" yet there isn't one peep about it on EvoM. Also, this is all some big corporate program to entrap people, yet my Mitsubishi dealer does trackdays, autox, roadtrips, meets at the strip, and BBQs, and I know people that have had no problems getting warranty work on their cars after attending any of those events, unless of course you bring some funky meat to the BBQ. I guess the "corporate program for entrapment of owners" isn't working so well I know of people that have had full trannys replaced on Evos that have a cage and all their race gear sitting in their backseat. I also know of people that have had work denied because they have an aftermarket exhaust. Just like with every other car out there, it depends on the dealer, there is no big corporate conspiracy.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Uh, OK.
Okazaki-san speaks.
Or is that Kawasoe-san. No, he is in trouble for killing people with a clutch disk, isn't he?
I never know any more...

StewC625

Here's what frosts me about this thread: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!

Sorry, I have no sympathy for you - do the crime, do the time. Track days are monstrously abusive to a car - you are taking somethign that is used to running at perhaps 30% of design load and running it flat out at 100 to 115% of rated power (yes, cars will exceed their design load) and then you get pissed when it breaks?

Guys, this is a ROAD CAR not a race car. It says so in the warranty - read the bloody warranty and it tells you than if anything breaks while using the car in an off-road/competition/whatever environment, your warranty for that item is void and the problem is yours.

I suppose that if you overcooked a corner and pranged the car against the Armco that you'd also want your insurance company to pay?

You want to race? Great, race. Go to track days, knock yourself out. Don't expect anyone else to pay for the damage done but you.

Same goes for mods - some tool puts a poorly-engineered turbo kit in his car and that causes something else to break, so he then "puts it back to stock" and tries to get it warranty-fixed. And then gets mad when they call him on it.

sorry to be the harsh voice of reason here, but guys, let's not smoke our socks. We ALL KNOW that this will void your warranty, don't we?

Personal responsiblity, ladies. Take responsibility for your actions, you won't be sorry about it. Don't have $7K for a new motor? Then don't take the car to a race track.

Stew

brillo

All the track days I've been to were driving schools, ie, non timed, non competitive events. therefore, they don't count as racing to my insurance.

Not sure how Mazda would handle that, but I would raise the issue anyways. How many miles were on your car? The current MO right now is usually, if an RX8 owner has a problem, fix it.

Huskyfan23

You're 100% correct regarding your automobile insurance. Lets say you decide to race at the track and smash up your 8. Your own insurance will not pay you one cent....anything that happens at the track comes out of your own pocket. That's why I never understood how people without a very large bank account can go to the track......if a tire blows and you smash into a wall, ALL of the financial responsibility is yours.

Now, I don't know if this is also correct regarding a warranty. A sports car is designed to be driven hard, and Mazda sponsors many track days to test out their vehicles.

If it isn't specified in the warranty you received on your 8 that it is excluded, then it has to be accepted. A warranty is like a bond....if something voids your warranty, it has to be written.

Now, if it states on the warranty that it is voided due to "intentional negligence" of the driver, that could include racing. I've never read the warranty, so I'm not sure.

Huskyfan23

Oh, it really states that in the warranty? He's gonna have some trouble getting Mazda to pay for it then....

devildog1679

Have you read the warranty booklet, it says your warranty can be voided for "racing, towing or misuse and abuse". HPDE's by definition are not races, like I said before they can try and pull the abuse card on you, but they need to prove that. MNAO hopes many people think like you, so when they say "sorry no warranty work for you" you take it as is and not push the issue. There was a guy who had a thread about engine failure and they tried to pull similar **** on him. In the end they fixed it. Why? well because he did not take no for an answer. You need to fight for what you believe to be right (key word believe), in the end it may be up to a jury but so be it.

They say misuse and abuse in the warranty booklet but how do you define that? Going over 100mph, taking a corner and 50mph, redlining your car an x number of times. That's the tricky part and that's also the part that gives you a fighting chance. Once again a track day (HPDE) is not a race, Autox is a race because they are timed. I agree with you though that it's a risk we are taking as owners. We need to be ready incase we do get our asses handed to us in court. It's a risk I'm willing to take. If they designed it to run at 30% only like you say, then they are complete idiots. It should be able to run at 100% of it's limits with no issues. Now if you push it beyond that, then that's a different story. Your right it's not a race car, so tracking it every weekend is probably not a great idea. But it is a sports car, so tracking it one day a month shouldn't be a big deal.

Huskyfan23

Misuse and abuse also means intentional negligence. Going to the track and using the car in a way a normal person wouldn't use it absolutely qualifies as such, especially if he admited that his engine blew the same day. It really would take some compassion on the part of Mazda to cover it, which they are absolutely not known for.

You might have a shot, though, if you make them feel sorry for you. I had a rock come up and hit my air compressor 1 week after I bought the car. It's not normally covered, but Mazda felt bad for my misfortune and covered it anyway.

It's really how you present yourself. Go in with a sad look on your face, and do not yell at them.

NoTears316

Just take your track cleats out of your car before bringing it in and they will never know you like to run track.

UltraRX

Hi. What were the circumstances of your engine failure? Mileage? Also, was the car well maintained and were all recalls performed? Participation in driving instruction does not void your warranty, and you shouldn't be paying, unless there's something else we don't know. Best of luck.

Huskyfan23

?

I hardly think the manufacturer will think a day at the track to be considered "driving instruction"....

9291150

I say the guy's getting shafted. You sell and market a sportscar, citing the whole "more Mazda's are raced on Sundays" and doing stunts like WOT 24 hour endurance tests on stock machines, quoting 5.9 0-60 times and the like....but then shaft the guy who does the occasional track day. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

At the very least, there should be a compromise found.

I got some heat because I demanded a new tranny when my 3rd to 4th shift grinded at redline. This was a 92mph shift, so Mazda started suggesting I was racing....f-off! Got a new tranny under warranty, which is WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

An engine shouldn't self destruct from one track day!

StewC625

Once again, children, personal responsibility.

Hmm ... I'm thinking you've got a MIGHTY THIN case if your case is based on the fact that the warranty says "racing, misuse and abuse" but you were only driving on a race track for the fun of it, and at low speeds, and not trying to post best possible times, and all that.

Were you or they timing your laps?

Were you attempting to improve your times?

Were you driving at speeds that didn't exceed typical speed limits?

Got anyone at the race track that will attest to that?

Didn't think so ... good luck with the warranty claim.

Once again, I would not be the person that you should attempt to convince on this. but that said, having worked in the auto industry, and specifically for a Porsche dealership (albeit years ago), and knowing what I know, I can tell you for a fact that unless you get some amazing sympathy from someone totally willing to look the other way on this, you're in for paying for a motor.

This situation reminds me of when I was selling Porsches in 1985 and a gent picked up a brand new 928 one Saturday AM - car had been on order for months (funny - the sticker price was $48,000 - can you imagine ...?). He picked it up at 9:00 AM. He was back with it at 10:15 on a flatbed, engine bleeding fluids. Said it "just blew". We hooked it up to what amounted to a scan tool back in the day and checked the "highest rev" memory item - 11,200 RPM. He was aghast - the engine's redline was a stratospheric (for those days) 7000 RPM and he said "no way, I was just motoring around). We pointed out the rod dents in the bottom of the pan - he had broken four of 8 connecting rods in the engine and said "that doesn't happen until about 9000 ~ 10,000 RPM. Plus what the hell were you doing to this brand new car, when we had briefed you on its break in routine." Finally the guy copped to the fact that he immediately took it out to an area where all the sports cars in the Des Moines area played at the time (I think that's all subdivisions now - at the time, it was just twisty country roads in the hills), and was descending into a known downhill, tight corner, downshifted wrong, dumped the clutch and WHAM! Dumbass. You think your engine is expensive? HA!

OK, let's peel the other onion - your engine SHOULDN'T have broken - if it was well maintained and you didn't anything stupid to it like over heat it, starve it of oil, run it down a straightaway for a full mile banging against the rev limiter, etc. you should have driven home just fine.

My guess is that based on the fact that you haven't commented on this, that you did something really dumb like:

- didn't check your fluids and have fresh coolant and oil in the engine, both at the desired completely-full levels

- Badly over-revved the engine by grabbing the wrong gear coming into a corner (yes, you can't drive the engine into over-rev with the throttle, but the gearbox can certainly pull it there if you grab second gear at 80 mph when you meant to downshift to 4th).

There's something here you're not saying. Why?

What's the nature of the failure. Is it seized? Just doesn't run? Does it crank? What shape is your oil level?

I think you screwed this pooch yourself somehow. A well-maintained RX-8 should deal with a track day just fine. Doesnt' mean that Mazda would warranty any damage you might do, but as I said, it should handle that fine as long as you don't over-rev the engine, really abuse it, or it wasn't properly maintained.

By the way folks, properly maintaining your engine is your OTHER responsibility!

Stew

9291150

Stew, why do you have a g-tech...you're not racing your car are you? If I were to interpret the manual word for word, I'd deny any warranty claim you had.

Point is, there needs to be some discretion on the part of the manufacturer ...corporate responsibility. You build, sell, market and profit from a sportscar, you must accept that some people will run their car hard on occasion.

If the OP does several trackdays a year, or showed that he doesn't maintain his car, etc. - than it's more black and white as you describe. But one track day shouldn't equal total absolution of corporate responsibility.

UltraRX

Um, what insurance company handles warranty work?

Since you brought it up: if you are participating in a high performance driver education course (yes, even at a track) your insurance remains intact.

But..........................

We aren't talking about insurance, we are talking about warranty work. If the O.P. is being truthful, he's getting screwed (so far.)

Huskyfan23

You've got me intrigued as to what the outcome was. I'm sure Porsche probably didn't cover it all, but did they at least give him a discount? I mean, he just dropped $48,000 on a car and had it for only an hour before it blew up. I would think that a well respected company like Porsche would realize that people make mistakes (I know, Stew, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY) and either split the bill or give it to him wholesale.

Huskyfan23

My bad. I obviously meant to say "manufacturer", as that is what this thread is primarily about.

I don't think he ever said that he was in a "high performance driver education course". He just said he was at the track. Now, I agree with you, if he was just participating in a driver education course it should be covered (that's certainly not intentional negligence) but what did he say to make you think that that's what it was?

UltraRX

No worries...

"My argument is that I wasnt racing not even time trialing. I was just lapping in a much more casual manner than you see in the avg 8 commercial."

This is what led me to believe it was a D.E. type of event, but it could have been something else. He also stated that the failure did not occur at the track, but on the way home. Sure, he could have damaged the engine while running at the track, or maybe it would have failed anyway. Who knows? Certainly not the dealer.

If it was me, I would've just went into the dealer with the blown engine without giving the details. I'm against outright lying, but wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over something like this.

Huskyfan23

You actually have a good point with this comment.....the damage to the engine most likely was caused as a result of his day at the track, but the damage didn't occur at the track.

Since it didn't happen at the track, how can they really reject it? I know the misuse thing still comes into effect, but it's after the fact. Lets say you go to the track and then 2 years later your car breaks down. In the manufacturer's eyes, you may have still beat on it, but they're not going to reject it. Maybe he can use this to his advantage.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

I dont think Porsche did. cuz if what Stew said was true, that dumbass derserves the *blew* engine. and he should pay for it himself.

This case ...

"No one has been under my hood except Mazda mechanics."

I think this is the problem, it seems that this *person* basically knows close to nothing about cars, no one has been under my hood except Mazda ..... ? no offence but if Im really racing, I wouldnt let any Mazda Mechanics to touch my car at ALL. Most of them dont know ****.

Who knows what you did at the track? and u'were stupid u dont even have any additional cooling and u track ur car? I think thats probably why ur motor blew.

Im with Stew on this one, you should be on your own.

StewC625

Porsche didn't do dick for him. He bought that engine when he abused it. Deservedly so. We gave him a loaner Audi 4000 to drive for the 4 weeks his new baby was in the shop getting the new engine. He managed to **** that car up too ... so this guy was a tool.

Sorry, guys again, but if you think Mazda's going to cover track day damage to your car, then I've got this killer bridge in London to sell you!

StewC625

Here's where I finally agree with someone. The right thing to do would have been to have the tow truck bring the car to your house. Then, you have them drop it in the driveway - you swap your track tires off, clean it up, make sure the engine is full of oil, etc. etc. - no evidence of a track day.

Following morning, you call Roadside Assistance and complain that your car won't start. No further comments needed. Let them sort out what if anything went wrong. While I firmly believe in personal responsibility, I also don't believe that you necessisarily have to fall on your sword at every opportunity. Especially to a car company.

Once again, we haven't heard from this gent, what exactly is wrong with the car, and if it was properly maintained, full of oil, etc. I suspect we will not hear, because I also suspect that it was not.

devildog1679

Since there is allot of debate going on here b/w people that now nothing about law (I'm assuming none of us are lawyers) I thought I would consult with a professional. I work in the legal contracts department of my company, I review pharmaceutical legal contracts all day long so I showed the warranty booklet to our corporate attorney, he is a 20 year corporate attorney for a fortune 500 company. So I think this qualifies him as a expert in law. Mind you he is not a warranty lawyer but the premise is all the same. When it comes to binding contracts , its all in the wording. He said that the way it is worded it implies that you must participate in a competitive timed event in order for them to void your warranty. A court of law would use the definition of the word "race" to establish whether or not you were participating in a race. A Court of law would not care other peoples perception of what a race is. The part about misuse and abuse is vague and would definitely give any owner a fighting chance to take their case to court if they voided for participating in a HPDE or if Mazda ever used misuse and abuse as the reason to deny warranty work. Now if a lawyer is willing to take that case is a different story. He then proceeding to ask me is this what I was doing all morning

costello

^^
Good advice here. Why would someone take their car to Mazda with the R-compounds still on the car? They're just going to take one look and deny service. I track my car ocassionally and if I blow the motor due to mis-shift or over-rev then damage is on me and out of my pocket. If something fails due to manufacturing or engineering defect then in my opinion it should be covered under warranty. High performance cars should be able to handle a little track time without issues as long as you're diligent on the maintenance.

Like you said Stew, back in '85 if they can tell if you over-rev by looking at the rpm memory, they can do it today. So even if you swap out tires and bring it in they'll check to see if it's been abused and decide if they'll deny service. There's usually tell-tell signs of abuse and leaving track tires on a car is a definate red flag and will probably blacklist your car for warranty work.

JasonHill

I already spoke to Mazda's customer service so there are no secrets here. I understand that "racing" will void the warranty. But my argument is that I was not racing, it was at a high performance driving school on a closed course. To drive an RX8 anywhere approaching its limits on the street would be redonkulously dangerous/ extremely illegal.

If I knew I would not be allowed to enjoy the capabilities of my car I would have bought a Kia.

I really hope this is a case of one customer service rep over-reaching and not Mazda policy. What happened to zoom-zoom?