MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yes.

Try towing something someday.
You might understand what I am talking about.

monchie

Just check my avatar, and you think i still could tow a trailer with fat chicks inside?

xexok

Which I agree with. Regardless though were talking about towing a car/trailer what exactly does premium gas and synthetic oil have to do with that?

blazenblue63

Actually no.... torque is everything when it comes to towing. My semi has 450 HP but 2300 ft/lbs of torque. Why? Because it tows 50000 lbs every day. On top of the 30.000 the rig weighs. A 600 HP viper wouldn't go anywhere with it. Why? Not enough torque. You start pulling things big and heavy like all your belongings for long periods of time through mountains and hills and at some points through intersections (stop n go traffic) you will ruin your car.

P.s mm isn't your car FI'd? If so you have more power and torque and an easier time towing.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

OK. I'll bite. Tell me how it will be "ruined"?

The Underdog

iTrader: (2)

Well, I've got some experience with this so I figured I'd weigh in. I've been autocrossing mine since 2007 and pulling a trailer like MM's the whole time. I have never had any drivetrain issues. The only thing I can see happening is if you pull something with a lot of wind drag you may run into overheating problems on a really hot day. I wouldn't worry too much about driveline issues.

Here's what probably will happen, though. Bear in mind that I have the DaLan hitch...

So last year I went to the SCCA Solo Nationals in Nebraska (I live in Maryland) and when I got back I discovered that my trunk floor was ripping out. Luckily I had caught it before it did too much damage and was able to weld it back.

The problem is this... The part of the hitch that takes the tongue weight bolts to the floor of the trunk under the jack and stuff. (it's rather amusing actually... hitch made out of 3/8 thick steel plate bolted to something like 20 gage trunk floor... i mean seriously? If you ever get the chance to take the rear bumper off, you'll find that there's not much substance to the back end of this car) Anyway, the (rather large) holes you go thru are raised relative to the rest of the surrounding sheet metal. The combination of the weight plus squashing this raised area when you bolt down the hitch causes radial cracks to form originating from the holes. Mine had traveled about 2 inches and there were probably 4-6 cracks. The other problem is the reinforcement plate that goes on the inside has sharp edges which slowly chisel away at the corners of the recessed area where it lives and eventually tears begin to form where this is happening.

A possible solution to all this is installing some kind of thick plastic on the bottom side of the reinforcement plate so that its metal edges can't tear at anything. Also you would want to clearance it so that it didn't load the raised areas around the holes and instead loaded the flat areas. If you do all that you MIGHT get away with it long term. That is what I did after making my weld repairs to the trunk floor. The other thing I did was welded a couple of structural arms on the hitch that went from the drawbar area up to the bumper support (there is room for this believe it or not), which now takes most of the tongue weight load with the trunk floor mount being mainly responsible for side loads. The outboard arms are too flexible to handle side loads themselves but they handle the torsional loads well and haven't caused any problems except that they make it impossible to remove the stock muffler without taking the hitch off first.

By the way, if you're going to weld in your trunk, take the carpet out. Don't be lazy like me coz I ended up setting mine on fire >:-[

Something like the following is probably the best bet if you have some fabrication ability and time to spare.

https://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3241

blazenblue63

Okay just to be clear we're talking about a U-Haul trailer full of personal belongings, not the track trailer. So lets say the U-Haul weighs 1500 lbs empty. Has to be a big one to put a bed and entertainment centre in it. Filled completely. Fridge washer dryer just some examples. Let's saaaay 3000 lbs? All together? Over average terrain so some steep driving and flat areas. He won't live by the interstate so lets say 10 miles of traffic lights stop signs and what not. So an added 3000 lbs on one motor and tranny basically double the weight of our cars. We'll assume stock. Out of state so let's say 500 miles. Not geared for pulling . Or powered. The strain of the weight will damage your transmission and engine. Maybe even the frame. The weight pushing down on the hitch. So the rear suspension carries most of it if not loaded properly.
Brakes would probably be okay. But prolonged pulling that kinda weight uphill and from a standstill? Lol bye bye 8.

I understand you're "the man" when it comes to engine tuning and stuff but this is my expertise lol.

The Underdog

iTrader: (2)

@ the OP-- Bottom line... You can tow with this car but only within certain limits. If it's just this one project you're gonna do, get a u-haul truck for ur stuff and pull a car-trailer behind it. That way ur car stays mint and u aren't left with a hitch hanging off the back of it for the ricers and yuppies to laugh at.

@ MM-- If you're rocking one of the hitches that mounts to the trunk floor I humbly suggest that you get in there and have a look at the situation now that you've gotten some miles on it.

blazenblue63

+1 don't take chances with this stuff. In my years over the road I've seen so many crashes involving caravans and hitched trailers. Spend the extra money and protect your baby. The alternative might end up costing a lot more...

Go Steelers

Usually a hitch plus install will run you a few hundred dollars. Renting a truck and trailering the RX8 might not be that much more expensive when you consider the upfront cost of the hitch and install.

Regardless, I'd never tow anything of that size & mass with the RX8.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Nope. The frame, tranny and engine are capable of creating and managing 2 or 3 times the stock power. The "strain" of towing is a fraction of that and energy is energy.
In other words, if you can make 400 HP and 300 ft/lb of torque manageable on an RX-8, all of those components can handle the mass/force equivalent with no problem. 2000 extra pounds would be like nothing is even there.

There should be almost NO weight pushing down on the hitch. If you are seeing more than 100 pounds on the tongue, you have mis-loaded the trailer.

Apparently not. Physics, please.

I welded the support inside the trunk to the floor of the trunk. It isn't going anywhere.
That said, reduce your tongue weight.

blazenblue63

I find it funny then that Mazda themselves said don't use the car for towing... but you know better right? That's why you had to WELD the car because it's so perfectly fine to tow with.... uh huh right.

I've read some of your threads and post before and I notice you are so full of yourself that you can't even admit to being wrong. Which according to me and a few others in this thread, you are. So go stand on your rotary shaped pedestal and preach how awesome you think you are.

Anyway in conclusion, you go tow 3000 lbs around in a stock rx-8 without welding the trunk and see what happens.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Only in North America. Everywhere else in the world, they have towing guidelines.
It is not unusual to see an RX-8 pulling a caravan in the UK.


No, I had to weld the hitch assembly because the design (it is a hidden hitch) was less-than-perfect in its utilization of the existing frame. The hitch that Mazda sells for the European market isn't a "hidden" design and uses the far stronger support just behind the trunk floor.

Why would I "admit" I am wrong if I'm not? Just because you say so? You are spouting off your "expert" knowledge that is completely lacking on a subject about which you have no experience. Instead of becoming indignant and offended, take your lesson and STFU.


I have. No problem.

Go Steelers

In other parts of the world they drive on the left side of the road.....doesn't mean it is a smart thing to do in the US.

I found two different sources that list the European BRAKED towing limit for the RX8 at either 1200kg (~2600 lbs) or 950kg (~ 2000 lbs)

"Braked" towing limits usually require that the trailer has its own braking system that is tied into the vehicle. Unbraked towing limits are usually "significantly less" that braked limits, but I couldn't find any on-line source that showed the unbraked towing limits of a European spec RX8.

ken-x8

Were they caused by driveline overload from towing? Structural failure of the hitch attachment to the chassis?

Ken

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

That was a completely illogical statement.

dynamho

So in summary, this is what I got from this thread:

* The RX-8 has adequate tensile/compressive strength for fore-aft stresses if the engine/drivetrain combo has adequate torque, the brakes strong enough, and provided the hitch is located correctly. Going up and down inclines and wind resistance at speed also fall into this category.

* If loaded correctly, the trailer presents no significant downward/upward stress on the rear if decelerating and accelerating mildly.

* The shearing effect of sideways wind turbulence is not significant enough to warp the body.

* U.S. has a dumbed-down owners manual. I noticed they even cover up our roof rack fixed points.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Though, I might add that towing in a cross-wind is pretty stressful on the driver if nothing else.

dynamho

Right. Stressful because the rear is being pulled sideways.

Also, I'm getting that frontal wind resistance may present upward loading as the trailer seesaws backwards, but this too is fine at conservative highway speeds.

I wonder if a trailer had a steerable third wheel that takes part of the load , then that would alleviate even the up/down stresses on the hitch. I guess the hard part is figuring out vibration damping and caster angle for such a wheel. Not enough benefit to cost?

Go Steelers

That's why it fits in so well in this thread.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

Equally illogical.

Jacob6875

We arn't talking about towing 2000lbs.


Moving is going to entail putting everything you own in that trailer........ think about it. Bed, TVs, computers , washer, dryer, refrigerator etc etc.

So you are going to need a pretty big uhaul trailer that probably weights over 1k lbs by itself. Then you are going to put in 3k+ lbs of your stuff in it.

You really think that a sports car whos manual says never to tow a trailer is going to be capable of towing 4000lbs +? You are insane.


Also installing a trailer hitch and then going in to weld your trunk up so it doesn't come off just seems a bit silly. Besides killing the resale value of your car (would you buy a sports car with a trailer hitch on it?) spending the money to do that would probably be about the same as just renting a truck.

seagram14

I’m not moving much just two mountain bikes, a flat panel LCD TV, clothes, and a few boxes. I was thinking about getting 4’ x 8’ close cargo trailer. I do not think I’m going to tow the trailer with my RX8 anyways because it’s going to be a long move (around 2000 miles). I may just ship the car and my stuff and catch a plane to New Orleans. Or rent a full size SUV and an auto transport trailer one way from Orange County to New Orleans.
Thanks for all the input.

MazdaManiac

iTrader: (3)

No, apparently we are.

I might be insane, but your reading comprehension is dismal.


The hitch isn't welded into the trunk - just the reinforcement bar. The hitch still comes off normally.


I dunno. Most people that see my setup are amazed by it and people offer to buy my car all the time.

RotaryTherapy

iTrader: (1)

From my own personal experience, I can tell you that towing with this car is absolutely no problem. I've had the entire car including trunk, front and backseats and small trailer filled with stuff from my apartment. I did a 3000+ mile trip from Sacramento, CA to Downtown Miami, FL. Only slight issue I got was passing LA on some bit steeper highways, where I had to downshift one gear to keep it going. Other than that, the car did that roadtrip plus is now with me in South America and numerous long trips from one end of the country to the other, it is still running strong like a champ. I drove close to 85 MPH most of the time since majority of traffic was moving at that same speed as well, but kept at 65-70 when passing state borders and traffic cops.