Spoonie

Speed and power isn't everything, but if the only thing that matters here is handling. Then the RX-8 isn’t any different than an Acura RSX-s. Besides the RX-8’s distinctive styling what advantage will the RX-8 have over the Acura RSX? Rear Wheel Drive? The RX-8 needs high 5s or low 6 second zero-to-sixty times, and low 14 second quarter-mile times. If not, all the RX-8 will be is a great handling car. As we all know there are plenty of great handling cars out there already.

As nice as the Miata handles, it is definitely underpowered. I like for a car to be able to scare the crap out of me, every so often when I nail the throttle. The Miata will never do that. If the RX-8 is significantly slower than the G35 or the BMW 330, the only place that the RX-8 would shine is at Autocross events. Every where else it would get killed.

Flame Suit on!

zoom44

thank you. no flame from me. i too would like this car to move out of its own way as well as be as quick or quicker than the cars you have mentioned.
edit : remember guys if this car fails to sell well because a bunch of car mags call it under powered there won't be any future for the rotary let alone another rx7

Gaidin

I just have trouble seeing a 250 hp car called underpowered. I admit that I don't know everything about cars, but 250 hp is around where the FD was. Everyone hailed that as one best sports cars ever out of Japan. I think that we'll be pretty happy! :D

zoom44

oh dont get me wrong i think that 250 sounds great and think it will be just fine. but it is still just a number and we'll see when we drive it!

Spoonie

250 HP should be fine. My 330i has 225hp and I love it. If the RX-8 is at least as fast as my 330i then I'm sold. It's just that the folks here feel that power isn't as important as handling. A fine handling car without power is just a toy. Power is what seperates the men from the boys.

Quick_lude

Unfortunately that was about 7 yrs ago.. HP levels have increased since then.. But I wouldn't worry, if the RX-8 is close to overall performance and "feel" with the S2000, the car mags will love it.

randyc

It's all about the entire package. The large variable missing above is weight. Another variable is the torque curve. You can have a 250hp car, but if you only get power above 6500rpms, tht car may feel lesy "perky" off the line around town, or force you to drop the clutch at 6500rpm to launch. If the car weighs 3500 pounds, the 250hp will not stop it from feeling portly.

A 120hp car that weighs 1600-1700 pounds can feel a lot faster. My shifter kart has 42hp, but it does 0-60 in under 4 seconds.

I want a car that has enough power to pin me back in the seat when I floor it, and has the handling to use that power and take the corners. So far, it looks like the RX-8 will have that. Or maybe it will be the Lotus Elise for me. Still not sure....

Rexman

The RX-8 weighs in at 2970 lbs and is slated to have 250 horses and 162 ft lbs of torque to muscle around with. This should be enough gabanzas to compete competitively. But in reality we all know that the comparisons will be made, and that the RX-8 MUST compare favorably with the competition.

The competition is all portly by comparison, but still manage to move with spirit. Also, we must remember that as time passes on, cars are becoming more and more powerful while at the same time getting faster and faster and handling better and batter.

Mazda must compete with the other cars as well as with the progress that they make. So yes, 0-60 must be below 6 seconds, say 5.7 for the least. And tha 1/4 mile must be in the low 14's, maybe even in the high 13's.

As to the Lotus Elise, not for me thank you. I prefer a car that runs more than 50% of the time.

randyc

Cool. But you do understand that the new Elise will use a different drivetrain? It may be hard to predict how often the car will break down if the rumored drivetrain is the proven Toyota, since that combination has not been done in production yet.

Still, I do agree it will be a Lotus, so qualitywise it's not near the Mazda. The bulletproof nature of my Celica/MR2/Honda/Lexus is a large part of why I bought those cars.

That is one of the major trade offs for me. I am not a big fan of cars with "character"... but the Elise maybe the one car I will take that trade off for.

Sputnik

We still don't know for sure what the weight will end up being.

---jps

wakeech

the point is that this car DOES have a pretty darned good engine, and it's not going to be embarrasingly slow...

Red Devil

I agree that the car must get good magazine reviews to compete. I'm not worried about that, though. Mazda always manages in that department.

I think Mazda will manage to sell a large percentage of RX-8's based on looks alone. It is completely original, and the general public that has seen the car seems to be crazy over the doors and interior. I showed the car to two of my friends, and now they both are hooked on getting one also. They could care less about power or handling, they just want the style.

wakeech

it's true, you can't count out the joe-blow factor...

Spoonie

So basically your friends like cars that are all “Show” and no “Go”? If it's all about style then the RX-8 will end up being about as significant as a PT-Cruiser or a VW-Beatle. Without any serious performance the RX-8 will be nothing more than a “Mazda Bug”. They want a car that looks fast but isn’t?

I’m glad that Mazda actually decided to give the RX-8 power and not turn it into a poseur. I would not like for my car to look sporty like a Porsche but perform like a 626. Beauty is only skin deep, once you get used to the look there has to be more there to keep me interested. Looks aren’t everything buddy.

R1_Kilroy

Low weight is the cornerstone of every performance vehicle. It makes everything easier. Accelerating, Braking, Turning and even fuel economy. You can even spring the car with lighter springs (to make it ride well) and go with firm compression and rebound damping to provide a "firm" feel.

The Z gets to 60 in 5.4 (C&D) so the RX8 should run similar times with advantages in every other performance category.

You'll have to work the rotary harder, but, IMHO, that is the allure of the RX8.

Ciao,

Don

R.Cade

The RX-8 is going to blow away everything in it's price range, as a total pacakge. Assuming everything we know so far is true...

Compared to a BMW 330 ($35k), the 8 is lighter, more powerfull, and better handler.

Compared to a Audi S4 Qudro ($38k), the 8 is MUCH lighter (1k lbs.), same power, and handles better (if it's not raining)

Compared to 350z, the 8 is lighter, has nearly identical power to weight ratio, handles better ( 350z gets rated as average handler car for sloppy feel and nose heavy.) Autoweek said the RX-8 has BWM/Audi build quality, 350z has a cheap interior. Plus has 2 more seats =)

The power to weight ratio is as good as anything under $40k. It supposedly handles BETTER then a 3rd gen RX-7, which is one of the best handling cars every made, with a real race car feel. A lot of cars can be called 'Good Handliers', but not in that league.

pelucidor

Why can't "Show" and "Go" both be available in one car. I think the S2000 has it, and I think that the RX-8 will have it, which is why I like them. I think that 5-10 years ago the Miata was a great show+go car, but it's new competitors have a little more go nowadays.

Personally, not having driven an RX-8 and knowing nothing about Mazda or rotaries until recently, I was attracted to the RX-8 purely on looks alone (exterior and especially interior). This kept me interested enough to learn more about the technology and philosophy behind the vehicle, which is pretty amazing and got me to 'committing' to the car without a test-drive. I hear the BMW M-Coupe is an amazing "Go" car but I will never desire one as it looks like a shoe IMHO. I want "Show" and "Go" and "Quality" all for $30k...

wakeech

let's not also forget that "show" is oft a byproduct of an inherently "go"ey design: case and point, any sexy sports car you can think of. they look good, because they look like they're fast, and they're fast because their design allows them to (and we think that's "good").

ya, i know the motor counts for a lot, and the 8 has a good one, one that will always have a special place in my heart for the truly amazing things i witness in life. anyhoo, this car looks good because it was designed to go quickly, not really really tear-your-hair-out-by-the-roots-acceleration quick, but still wow-that's-pretty-darned-quick-for-a-four-seater quick... so it's alright to just like the way the car looks... Mazda's not abandoned the fundmental philosophy of making it very very very sporty.

Red Devil

Comparing the RX-8 to the PT Cruiser or VW Bug seems rash.

The RX-8 will be considered a performance car in every respect. It will be both "show" and "go." My two friends are from the sect that want it only for show. They will never autocross or race, they simply like the way it looks. Thousands of people buy Porsches and Corvettes because of their looks and brand name, not their performance. I believe the RX-8 will fall into the same category. And no one can honestly claim either the Porsche or Corvette as not being performance machines.

Pelucidor's interest is exactly the market I'm referring to. The "joe-blow factor" at work. And Mazda will need every "joe-blow" they can get.

Macabre

It's easy to say it compares favorably to everything when it isn't here yet. The worst mistake a car-maker can do when bringing out a new model is set the expectations too high.

Reallisticly, it will not be as nice inside as a BMW or Audi. It will not be as quick as a 350z. It will not handle better than a 3rd gen. Those are not realistic expectations for this car. I'm just hoping it has enough of the all-around characteristics at the right price point to make it the car I want in my garage.

Hercules

I don't see how you make YOUR assumptions..

I am hoping that it will out handle the 3rd gen, will have a nice interior (not as nice as Audi's but maybe BMWs), and might be just as fast as the 350Z.

I don't see how that's unrealistic.

zoom44

ask the people who saw the vid at the sevenstock dinner about that:D

Macabre

The 3rd gen RX-7 pulled .95gs stock and ran a very quick slalom. The RX-8 isn't likely to be in the same league, mostly because it won't be as light and no doubt will be much more softly sprung. It's nice to embrace parts of the Autoweek article (the comments on feel and handling) and ignore other parts (weighing 2970lbs), but not a good idea if you don't want to be disappointed when the final specs come out. I'm sure it will handle very well, almost surely better than a 3-series or A4, but this is not a raw sports car. It's a sports sedan to appeal to the masses. If a new RX-7 is released, that will be your raw sports car, and I'm sure will live up to it's predecessors' legacy. If you want to go on thinking it will be an exotic sports car for the next few months 'till it's out, I won't try to stop you

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

Performance to dollar ratio: That's what it's mostly about. For me, I have to justify paying 4 to 5 grand more than an RSX type s. So overall performance--to definitely include straight line performance--is important. The overall package is definitely there in the RX-8. Sure you could get a Mustang, Camaro, or WRX that may be able slightly outgun a RX-8 at the stoplights (even though it will probably come down to the driver), but do you think any of them look as good as an RX-8? Do you think any of them will be able to outhandle a RX-8? What about reliability of the competition? Combine that with the functionality of the RX-8 and you have a winner. Bragging rights are definitely important and in order for the RX-8 to be really successful, it has to outshine the competition in more than just handling. It has to topple the big guns like BMW, Mercedes, and Audi (the G35 did it to the 330ci in the most recent issue of Automobile).

I remember about 15 years ago the RX-7 was called the "poor man's Porsche", maybe the RX-8 could be considered a "poor man's M3", considering the expected level of performance of this car.

Hercules

Yea I'm sure that the "Automobile" publishers sold a few more mags with articles saying that a car beat the 3 series...

I've driven the G35 and it doesn't come close to the 3 series.. regardless of what magazines say. For the money though, the G35 is great, but it's not in the same league as the 3 series.. too cheezy and it's a tad bulky for that market. It's just the price that helps the G35.