tmak26b

They wish it was 300lbs lighter, I don't think it is.

Kafka

The R3 is HEAVIER than the older 04-08 model Rx8 by 10kg or so...

http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/1...mazda-rx-8-r3/

Are-Ex-Eight

iTrader: (1)

It is probably lighter than the other 09's due to the wheel alloy.

Also the gear ratio allows a higher speed to be reached in 2nd gear thus only 1 shift required to hit 60 (but I'm pretty sure 2nd in all models will do a few mph above 60).

Raptor75

Similarly equipped cars showed about a 300lb difference according to Consumer report wieghing both cars on the same scale and later model Z's were heaver. Not sure about the 370. Pretty poor when you consider the Z has 2 less seats and 1/3 the trunk space. In other words the 350Z is 10% heaver, in the world of Sports cars that is a big deal and why the 8 can out handle the Z with out rattling your teeth loose. Just saying.

tmak26b

I had a 2004 350Z and a 2004 RX-8, they were within 250lbs of each other. Given the fact that the VQ makes almost 25% more power, it's not uncommon for cars to suffer weight penalty as a result of power increase. If you are so concerned about weight, you might want to think about the Lotus. The Lotus might be light, but I can still do circles around the car in my 3500lbs car. You can keep telling yourself how wonderful your car is, but the fact is that the Z is still a faster car. I don't mean it as a knock on your car. I know you love yours more, but it doesn't mean it is a faster car. It's just a fact unfortunately.

Spirograph

Watch this Top Gear episode:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/R...ear_209463.htm

I just got an '04 w/ Nav/Xenon/DSC, 36k for $10k. I doubt I could get a 350z anywhere near that with those miles. I'm not at all thrilled about the reliability of the Renesis, but I'm taking good care of it from here on out and hoping for the best.

Flashwing

I didn't mean to turn this into a 350/370z vs. the RX8 debate so I'm sorry if I crapped in your thread. I guess the two points I wanted to get across is there is always compromise with cars in some manner. It comes down to your particular driving style and your needs from the vehicle.

I've ran circles around my fair share of 350z's but because the drivers were slow and not the car itself. In the end it comes down to the person behind the wheel. That's the beauty of racing.

tmak26b

I wasn't trying to say what is a better car, that would be up to you decide. I am just saying from pure performance point of view, the Z wins. If Mazda would step up to the challenge, it would be way more interesting

Are-Ex-Eight

iTrader: (1)

What challenge? And how does the Z win? Seems 50:50 everywhere I look, every comparison video is different, some pick the 8 for fastest track lap, some pick the Z. Bottom line most pick the 8 on an overall basis.

Kafka

That was back in 2003-2007. Bottom line is, the 370Z is better from pure performance point of view. Its a fact.

The guy is just saying based on the performance and even overall basis, the R3 MSRP is overpriced.

I agree. You may not. But please don't keep moving the subject and using old comparison results.

Fanbois are ghey. Are you ghey?

Chris

iTrader: (10)

I know that if you already have a mazda they give some kind of "loyalty" discount. not sure how much it is but I could trade and take the discount and easily have the same car payment that i have now if not better

Kafka

In Canada, the "loyalty" discount is only -1% on finance/lease.

Better wait for a previous year model...

Raptor75

Hmmm, a well respected national magazine that receives no revenue from the manufactures and does these types of comparisons and analysis as their primary function stated closer to 300 lbs and I noticed your number jumped 50 lbs from your first quote on their difference but, whatever.

Now I didn't mean to hit a nerve with you, the 350Z is a very nice car, I might own one myself one day. A 370 not the 350. I also don't believe I said anything about it not being faster and even said that was its advantage so I'm a little confused were you came up with that idea that I was knocking its power but, whatever.

Now what I did say is that the RX-8 is a better handling car that is more fun to drive. This is pretty much a given and don't take my word for it just read any comparison of the 2 cars. The RX-8 is always selected the winner of the two for these and other reasons. The Z is nice but heavy and unrefined and only beats the RX on the track where raw power would rule. In auto X where handling dynamics rule the Z is out classed. Now if you buy the car for only the track you really can't go wrong with the Z but if you also like a refined, fun to drive, livable car that won't rupture a kidney the RX is the way to go. As you said these are just the facts. Enjoy your car and remember it is just a car.

tmak26b

I have owned and raced both cars, so I have to disagree with some of what you said. Regardless, I don't want this to become a bashing as that wasn't my original intend. At the end of the day, they are all nice autos. Each cars have their own pros and cons, there is going to be trade off in every car you buy! Trust me when I said the Z can go just as fast on the track in the corners as the RX-8, they might not be as nimble, but it can more than hold its own in the corners. You are right about them delivering a harsh ride, I believe I mentioned that in my first post about how the RX-8 can handle without the harsh ride.

Anyway, I think I am going to skip on a new one as I just found an 06 for less than $14K. Woohoo, I am going to have extra money to install central AC on my house now. I will be tracking this RX-8, so it will be interesting to line up the GPS datalog from this car vs my 04. I also have data from Corvettes, Lotus and EVOs to compare at the tracks in the Northeast

Chibana

I recently purchased an 09 RX-8 (GT). I had planned on getting the R3, but decided against it because the seats were just a little too snug for my hips to be comfortable for longer drives. I have no problem with the price, and don't understand people who do. The cars I considered as alternatives, mainly the 370Z and Mustang GT (probably would have waited for the 2011 year when the new 5.0L V8 comes out, supposedly) would have been considerably more expensive (comparing sticker to sticker) than my RX-8 with each configured as I wanted.

Although either would have been much faster in a straight line, that's where their superiority ends. In order to get the Mustang to a respectable level of handling, I would have had to have purchased the Track Pack. With the Track Pack, the Mustang GT would have been considerably more expensive than my RX-8, and when it comes down to it, I just don't think I could live with the live axle, no matter what suspension work is done to the car to mitigate the situation. The Mustang's brakes are also vastly inferior to the RX-8s, and I would have wanted to upgrade those, at significant cost.

For most people who don't need rear seats (I preferred to have them, but it was not a requirement), I would say the 370Z is the all-around better sports car, but it depends on what you want. For what I would have wanted, it also would have been more expensive than my RX-8. In addition, the NVH at high RPM would be a huge turn-off for me. I'll take the RX-8s superior steering and handling and lighter weight (and the R3 does not weigh significantly less than other 09 RX-8s) over the 370Z: I wanted as much of a "pure" sports car experience as I could get within a reasonable price frame, and reasonable practicality. I might have gone with the MX-5 (which they were practically giving away for an 08) if I had fit comfortably.

For me, what it came down to is that I've always been in love with the RX-8, and I love the rotary engine for what it is. The Series II RX-8 has quite a few mechanical changes that are clearly designed for improve reliability, which was also something I considered in my choices. I wanted a car that had been around long enough to have most of the bugs worked out. Ultimately, this kind of car is about passion, and the RX-8 is the one that "does it" for me. I'll leave the rational choices for my commuter car and the family hauler.

On a side note, I agree about the spongy brake pedal. I was surprised to find that the brakes on my RX-8 are so spongy, when the brakes on my 05 Mazda3 have probably the best, firmest feel of any car I've ever driven. However, as I discovered this past weekend, the RX-8 sure does stop, and it does so with very little nose dive! Maybe I'll pick up some stainless steel braided brake lines to see if that helps the pedal feel.

Raptor75

Sounds like a good plan plus I really don't care for the new styling but that is my personal opinion. Would you be so good as to post this data from the RX and the rest. Your interpretation of the data would also be insightful so if you have the time we would be interested in the comparison. Data is worth a 100 opinions.

tmak26b

I personally hate SS brake lines, you lose any type of modulation feel with them.

Rather than just going off of magazine, I have been testing cars that I own or my friends own for 4 years now. I have data to compare the RX-8, STI, EVO, Corvette, 350Z, Lotus and 911 at four different tracks. I can tell you the RX-8 is a great handling car, but it is not the best.

Chibana, I don't think paying the 27K would be this painful had they didn't make pretty much the same car the past 4 years!

Razz1

Your not going to find a STI or 370 Z at 21 to 23 k

tmak26b

They have better performance, I expect to pay more for them. If they don't perform, why should I pay a premium for it?

shazy

That's true also... but it's more than just performance. It depends on comfort, styling, and just the all around quality of the interior and the car. I do understand when getting a sports car you have a couple of compromises like being comfortable, but not terribly so where it just rattles all the time.

Everyone has different preferences and wants a car that fit their certain needs, that's why everyone has their own opinioon It's not good to change them unless they are making a mistake

tmak26b

True, that's why people are paying 200K for a Ferrari... If i have the money, I would too!

Raptor75

So does this mean you plan to post the data???

I think it was Motor Trend that had a pretty interesting comparison of about 12 sports cars of various cost. Even though the 8 wasn't the fastest (finished pretty low in the order through the course) it rated in the top four best handling cars. The cars that rated better were significantly more expensive.

tmak26b

I posted in various forums. What do you want to see?

Chibana

That's kind of the whole point: the car has only improved, why should the price be lower? Did they remove the carbon fiber drive shaft? No. Did they remove the forged aluminum suspension pieces? No. It would be different if they decontented the hell out of it like Ford always used to do, and continue to charge the same price, but they have not. Like I said, the other cars I considered were considerably more expensive. This price is reasonable for this car.

When *all* of the good enthusiast magazines (whose drivers have driven far more cars than you list, and performed very detailed testing) agree that the RX-8 is one of the best steering and handling cars, there's good reason to believe it's true. Not to mention that my favorite race driver, Randy Pobst says pretty much the same thing. However, having said that, different people have different ideas of what "good hanlding" means. As I stated, I prefer light and simple. I'll take the lower center of gravity, and mid-engine configuration of the RX-8 over the 370Z (besides, I personally think the RX-8 is one of the best looking cars, inside and out, ever put on earth). But, like I said before, for most people, the 370Z is probably the better sports car, but it's also more expensive.

I didn't even bother to test drive the other cars because I knew which car I was passionate about. I tried very hard to feel that way about the 370Z, especially after reading how fast the damn thing is! But I just wasn't feeling it. All the others on my list (Evo, STI, Mustang GT, 370Z, BMW 135i) would have been more expensive (MUCH more for some of them), and didn't offer what I was looking for in most cases (true sports car ideals of light weight, low center of gravity, excellent weight distribution, and RWD). The only other car that isn't a true exotic and that isn't a niche vehicle that I would say is even in the RX-8's class is the Porsche Cayman, and that was out of my price range by a great deal.

As far as I'm concerned, this car is a raging bargain.

tmak26b

Given the true selling cost of these cars are in the 22-27K range, why are they sticking the car with close to a 30K sticker? At the end of the day, they have to use rebates and discounts to get people to buy the car. Rather than selling it at a lower price to begin with, they chose to play the game of list it high and sell it low. It does nothing but hurt the value of the vehicle in the used car market (see people who has trouble selling the cars or people who took a blood bath after 3 years). Mazda discounts their car quite a bit, see the $1K-$3K rebate they are offering on their website. If you can justify spending 30K for the vehicle, more power to you. I am just saying from my point of view, the car should be more around the $20-25K range.