guy321

Thats why you have no warranty :p

psteng19

So you learned to heel-toe before you were proficient with the day-to-day basics of shifting and clutching in/out?

That's like learning to run before you can crawl.
Props to you then.

Blaaz

I know how to heel-toe, but don't use it. I am never in that much of a hurry. I can shift 4-2, just takes a little longer to pull it into gear. I can even shift 6-2 if the situation warrants it. Maybe, it comes from riding a motorcycle where you don't heel/toe or skip gears.

Mazdaspeedgirl

Most of the time I heel/toe, unless I am being passive. In those cases I always at least rev match.

mmmm....need closer pedals for my tiny feet....

guy321

Hmm good point, I guess it was about 4 months after I was driving stick every day.

KuzuRyuuSen

isn't that burning the clutch out? since i learned how to drive a car at 11, i used MT all the time. but once i got into college in US, i used AT. my problem with rx-8 is the lagged response at very low rpm (1-2k). i need to wait like half second or something to get to 2k rpm, but once it hits 2-2.5k, it starts revving like crazy if idepress the gas pedal too much. that's why i'm asking the rpm you guys using without putting too much concentration in depressing the gas pedal and of course also not to wear out the clutch too much. usually i use 2.5-3k to start at 1st gear though with my rx-8...

Blaaz

2.5-3k sounds about right. Clutch should be fine as long as you don't ride the clutch or do too many burn outs.

MI_FamilyMan

You shouldn't even be watching what your RPMs are -- you should go on instinct and feel. Keep your eyes on the road...

prncesmarmar

Ok Guys What Does Heal Toe,rev Match And Feather The Clutch Mean?

guy321

heel toe is braking and applying gas at the same time with the clutch in to allow you to maintain a certain RPM.

rev match is applying gas while clutching to maintain a certain RPM

Double clutching is a method of rev matching so that you have the car in neutral when you're reve matching. Most people don't do this because of modern synchros blah blah blah ( they're too damn lazy to do one other step) :p

Feather the clutch is letting the clutch out slowly while applying the gas , as opposed to dumping the clutch which is releasing the clutch quickly.

pcimino

Downshifting for a turn is a whole other discussion (search for "heel-toe")

Generally speaking, especially for a new manual driver, don't upshift or down shift in a turn. If you're near the traction limit you can spin, although the DSC should offer some protection.

For normal driving, you shouldn't need to down shift unless the engine is "lugging", that sound/feeling that the engine is chugging and might stall. For the RX-8, probably anything under 2K rpm, you can think about a lower gear.

Once you get comfortable. The next thing you might want to do is downshift when passing. For good gas mileage etc you want to keep RPMs low on the highway. But the renesis torque doesn't really pick up until 4.5~5K rpm. So if I'm traveling 65-ish in 6th gear the RPMs are around 3.5K, I might put it in 5th to get the revs over 4K to pass.

Also:
Do NOT get in the habit of keeping your foot on the clutch pedal, use the "dead pedal" on the left firewall to rest your foot.
Do NOT get in the habit of keeping the clutch in at a light, you should be in neutral and foot on the brake, left foot on brake or dead pedal. When you think the light should change in the next 5 or 10 secs, then depress pedal and put it in first.
Do NOT get in the habit of keeping your foot on the clutch pedal
Do NOT get in the habit of keeping your hand on the stick unless you intend to use it, it's not an arm rest.
DO get in the habit of depressing the pedal FULLY to the floor.

did I mention "Do NOT get in the habit of keeping your foot on the clutch pedal"?

Slipping the clutch to start or shift should be minimal, you want smooth transitions without taking too much time to shift. As you get better and can add more revs, your shifts will get shorter.

Up/Downshifting : Depress the pedal fully to the floor before moving the stick, this gives the synchros time to work.

Most of this advice should help preserve your clutch, which ain't cheap to replace.

Most importantly: Have fun!

pcimino

Rev match means you match the revs to the gear your shifting into. This is most important with cars with no sychronizers (Formula Fords come to mind). So (fictional example) your in 4th at 40 mph and your revs are at 4k rpm. You want to downshift to 3rd, but you're still going 40 mph, you need to know approx what rev the engine will be at (say 5k), so clutch in, rev to 5k, gear 3rd and release clutch. If everything worked out, you don't throw the car into a skid. Big reason for this is downshifting in preparation for a turn, so the car is in a lower gear at higher revs when coming out of the turn. Search the threads for "heel-toe" one of them has a really cool link to a video clip showing exactly how to downshift under braking.

You can get away without synchros and double clutch on an upshift (but it won't be smooth), but if you try to downshift without double clutching, you'll just grind the gears into little metal bits.

slllygrl10

Ok now I really need to learn how to drive a stick. I'm trading in my car for a 350z. I hope you guys don't hate me.

\\Konig\\

iTrader: (4)

dont do it!

:O

are you going to trade it in with all the parts you have on atm?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

i'm gonna steal yer new car and drive teh bejesus out of it!!!

slllygrl10

No I decided to sell the car privately. I'm parting the car as of now. Click on the link below you might be interested on some parts I have for sale.

BlueSky

The RX-8 is my first manual tranny car. I learned a bit on a few others before I got the RX-8 but I still needed at least a week to get accustomed to getting the car off smoothly.

I've found that learning to drive stick is like learning any other art form. To me, it is very similar to when I first started out learning to play guitar. You'll feel like a total idiot at first, and you'll feel like you'll never learn. But all it takes is patience and perseverance and it'll become easier. But mastering it will take more time just as mastering the guitar takes alot of time.

The main thing is finding where you're clutch catches. Once you have that spot mapped into your brain then launching and shifting will become much easier.



On the 350z, I'm not gonna say "Noooooo! get an 8!" because I havn't driven a Z yet. But I have driven a G35 coupe and it felt like a battlecruiser compared to my light and nimble 8. Also I've heard bad things about the tranny that its "rubbery". But if you test drive it and like it then good for you. But if you're in the market for a 350z, might wanna also check out the S2000.

slllygrl10

I dont like convertibles.

puch96

There is no need to start in 2nd gear, nor 3rd for that matter. If someone is learning, they should lear to drive correctly.

cjkim

The Z is a great car. Loads of torque.
There are a few things to consider though... the Z has a pretty heavy clutch and shift, bigger blind spots than the 8, almost a non existant rear window and the driver bucket seat is considerably more snug than the 8 and the ride is a bit more harsh than the 8.
Great car though if you're willing to live with some of the downs. Lots of ups
I think that exercise is more about controlling the clutch than actually learning to start in those gears.

Captain Amazing

Taken from another board.

Why drive a manual when an automatic is so much easier to drive? Good question. Driving a stick shift is not for everyone. If all you want out of a car is simple transportation to take you from point A to point B then an automatic is the best car for you. If you do a lot of stop and go driving then an automatic is the way to go. If you live on a steep hill in San Francisco then an automatic makes more sense. However, if you want to be the one making all the shifting decisions when you drive and you want the flexibility of a manual shift then working a clutch and maneuvering through the gears is for you.

I have been driving stick shift cars for 40 years. You have not. However this doesn’t mean that I know more about driving than you, simply that I have more experience driving different manual shift cars. Each car is different, each car feels different. The basics however remain the same.


The clutch.
All manual shift cars have a clutch. It’s always located just to the left of the brake pedal. The clutch is operated with your left foot. The purpose of the clutch is to disengage the engine from the transmission while you are stopped or changing gears. When you push in on the clutch all the way to the floor, the engine is fully disengaged. When you ease off the clutch, power is added slowly to the transmission and from there to the drive wheels thus moving the car. Each car’s clutch has a "release point", that is a point where the clutch begins to engage the flywheel, providing power to the transmission. Every car has a slightly different release point. On some cars, the release point will be a fraction of an inch after you begin to ease off the clutch. On others, the clutch may not release until 2 or 3 inches after you begin to ease the pedal. Learning to drive a car with a release point that comes sooner than later is generally much easier.

The gears.

Your car will have either five or six gears. If it’s a really old car, it may only have four or even three gears. The purpose of these gears is to power the car at various speeds while keeping your engine revolutions at the desired output. 95% of the time you will start from a standing start in first gear. Occasionally you can start in second gear if your car is on a downhill incline.

Your car will quickly accelerate to about 15-25mph in first gear at which time you will then shift to second gear. When and why to shift at various speeds and rpms is discussed later.

The first time.
The first few times you attempt to drive a manual car you will either stall it, jerk it with a bone jarring stop/start motion or peel out in a cloud of tire smoke. This happens to everyone, despite what you read on the internets.

Slowly releasing the clutch while simultaneously giving the car gas is the magic of driving a manual car without jerking it. It takes practice to get the hang of it so don’t worry if you don’t get it right the first few dozen or more times.

The real trick to getting the car to move forward smoothly is achieved by feeling for the engagement point of the clutch, holding the clutch there for a fraction of a second while adding enough gas to get the car moving and keep it moving, then releasing the clutch the rest of the way. This is similar to "feathering" or "riding" the clutch however true "feathering" is discussed later. When the car is on a slight uphill incline you will have to give it more gas. Conversely, when you are on a slight downhill incline you don’t have to give it as much gas.

Speaking of hills, starting from a standing stop on a steep uphill incline is the hardest thing to learn about driving a stick shift. This is because you have to use your right foot to hold the brake down. As soon as you let off the brake to give the car gas, the car will roll backward into the front of the Porsche 911TT right behind you. The trick to do this without rolling backwards into a $100,000 car, is to pull up on the e-brake handle, thus freeing your right foot from having to hold the car with the brakes. As you let out the clutch and give the car gas, slowly ease off the e-brake and the car will move forward without rolling backwards.

Easing out on the clutch to the engagement point then holding it there while giving more gas will also keep the car from rolling backwards. This technique is called "feathering" or riding the clutch. It will also hasten the departure of your clutch from its earthly life as it wears out the clutch faster. Still, this is a good thing to know and to practice. A good trick to help you learn how to feather the clutch and especially feel for the engagement point is to find a perfectly flat section of road or parking lot with no other traffic. Put the car in first gear and without giving the car any gas, s-l-o-w-l-y ease out the clutch until the car is moving. When the car is moving along at 10mph, without giving the car any gas, shift into second. When you can do this all the way through the gears without stalling the car or touching the gas pedal, you’ve mastered the art of feathering the clutch. This is how my dad taught me to drive 40 years ago and it’s still a good way to learn the ways of the clutch.

Shifting gears.

Congratulations. You’re now driving. However you still have to work your way through the gears to increase your speed. Once your car is moving in first gear you’ll hear the engine rev up rather quickly. Two or three seconds after you start off in first, it will be time to shift to second. To do so, simply let off the gas, depress the clutch and move the shift lever from first to second, then ease off the clutch and add more power. It’s easier than it sounds because the car is already moving. Inertia becomes your friend and helps the car to transition smoothly between gears. A few seconds later, you’ll do the same when you shift from third to fourth, then from fourth to fifth. Now you’re moving at highway speeds and all is good.

When to shift.
As I mentioned earlier, you shift when it’s desirable to maintain a certain engine rpm. If you want to save gas, shift when the engine is between 1500-2200 rpms. If you want normal shift points, shift between 2200-3200 rpms. If you want max power, shift just before your tach reaches redline. Redline, as you undoubtedly know, is maximum revolution for your car’s engine.

Disclaimer: some cars, like the Honda S2000 have extremely high redlines and benefit from shifting later as this car makes best power in the upper reaches of the rpm band, somewhere around 8000 rpms. Other cars, like big V-8’s make their best power around 5600 rpms so you will shift much sooner when driving a Mustang GT for example.

It is neither advisable nor healthy for your car’s engine to shift too early (before 1500 rpms for example) as it puts a strain on your motor. If you hear your motor making a "knocking" sound, you’re shifting too soon.
I rarely ever look at my tachometer when shifting. You can easily hear the sound of your engine at certain rpm’s. I shift by ear, as do most experienced drivers.

Downshifting.

Congratulations, you’re now moving along at 55 mph. However you see an old geezer in a purple 350Z fly by and you give in to the urge to give chase. What do you do? If you simply step on the gas, you’ll increase your speed, but slowly. The geezer will be long gone by the time you reach 75 mph and you’ll be the laughing stock of OT. What you need to do is to downshift. Why? Because you want to quickly increase your engines rpm’s in order to make maximum power. If you simply reverse the procedure of upshifting, shifting from fifth gear to fourth or even third, you’ll make mad power yo. This however puts a strain on the engine as you suddenly dump the clutch and the lower gears force the engine into a higher rpm range. You’ll also run the risk of losing control of your vehicle as your car’s transmission and drive wheels suddenly have more torque than you can handle. The solution is to "match rev" your rpm’s so that you lessen the shock of adding all that extra power and ease off the clutch as you downshift. Rev matching is simply giving the throttle a quick blip of gas while you depress the clutch and downshift. Then when you gently release the clutch you can take advantage of the extra power you have due to the higher rpm’s your engine is making. You still won’t catch the geezer in the Z but hey…at least you tried.

Rev matching is not necessary when you are simply slowing down and you want to downshift to a lower gear in order to keep the car moving however it won’t hurt to rev match and it makes you sound cool to all your pimply faced buddies.

When coming to a stop, you simply depress the clutch as the car slows to 15-20 mph and put the gear selector into neutral. It’s not desirable to downshift through all the gears as you come to a stop. Replacing brake pads is a lot cheaper than replacing a clutch.

That’s shifting 101. There are other circumstances such as driving on slippery conditions, speed shifting, double clutching an old truck, etc, but this will get you started.

slllygrl10

Wow Thank you Captain Amazing!

saturn

^^ That was surprisingly entertaining.

"You still won’t catch the geezer in the Z but hey…at least you tried."

slllygrl10

Whew I finally getting the hang on driving a stick. Yeah manual is way fun to drive than an auto. If i dont get at least get it up to 2rmps at 1st gear I'll start jerking but not too bad. So always 2000 to 2500 from now on. YES! I CAN DRIVE STICK!!! YOOO HOOOO

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

uh, no, you have torque, you should be able to start smoothly from 1100-1500rpm

you have much more to learn young padawan