DLASH15

Hey everyone, I was posting under the 8/100,000mi. thread and decided to post a new thread for this situation. My car is an 04 with 64k miles. I lost compression in the rear rotor a few weeks back. The dealer submitted the warranty claim and it was denied by Mazda. The deciding factor was due to Bridgestone using full synthetic oil in Sep '08 at ~51k. I tried to reason with Mazda numerous of times informing them that my owners manual doesn't say anything about not being able to use synthetic. In my manual it states "SL and GF-III" on page 8-10 it states a "recommended 5w20" but also to use oil based on driving temps and to use an energy efficient oil. They then printed out a page from a drivers guide(wouldnt give me the year) that states do not use synthetic due to starting problems could worsten for cold starts. I called mazda and asked them to show me anywhere on the warranty guidelines or in my manual where is says to not use it and they informed me "it is not recommended." I asked for clarification and I was informed that they did not have to inform me of this and it was my job to call and ask them. I was then told that this was not an automatic warranty and it was more like a "good gesture from Mazda."

Basically, I'm looking for all the information you bloggers have that could help my case with the Better Business Bureau. I find this matter quite unfair. Also, has anyone used synthetic and had the engine replaced under warranty? Thank you all for the help. I'm hoping to solve this with the BBB so further legal action is not necessary. God Bless

DLASH15

please someone.... I am losing my mind over this issue

Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

so one time they used a synthetic and they wont honor?

Just tell them you are going to the BBB or a lawyer. Maybe that will work. Try another dealer and don't tell them about the synthetic?

Marklar

The owner's manual for my '07 does say "Do not use either synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil. Otherwise starting performance could worsen."

But one oil change and they are denying warranty coverage? The "good gesture from Mada" stuff is crap, a warranty isn't something they can just decide to honor if and when they feel like it, it's their obligation. But the synthetic oil thing gives them an excuse to void it.

Have you called Mazda North America, or just the dealership? If they didn't include that warning in the '04 manual then it seems ridiculous to expect you to have known that. That angle is probably your best bet.

This is why I've decided to have the stealership do all of my oil changes, just so they can't jerk me around like this. Good luck to you.

ken-x8

That doesn't make sense. Do you have the original warranty booklet for your car, and the notice of the extended warranty? That's what Mazda has to go by.

But the earlier owner's manuals had no such statement.

Look up the Magnuson-Moss Act. To deny warranty, they have to prove that what you did specifically caused the failure. The revisionist document they produced talks about starting problems, not engine failure, so they're barking up the wrong tree.

Anyway, when you file your complaint submit a copy of your owner's manual and warranty. Those are the rules that matter. Also, make sure that pursuing this through BBB does not waive your right to take legal action.

Good luck.

Ken

buteman

I really wonder if Mazda would hide behind a minor technical issue like this and refuse a warranty claim. That being said I purchased my 8 about a month ago and being a big fan of synthetic oil my intention was to have the Mazda dealership change the oil, flush the system then replace the oil with the synthetic of my choice.
I mentioned this to the service manager and he immediately told me to forget it ! he said not to use synthetic oil as Mazda can ( and have ) denied warranty claims based on the " use of non approved lubricants " so be careful out there, they do have a legal right to deny warranty claims. Good luck.

ken-x8

It looks like they made the "no synthetic" rule formal in '07. But Dlash has an '04, where they just specified the API/ILSAC grade and also allowed flexibility on the weight. If synthetic is not approved, it's got to be stated in the owner's manual and warranty.

Ken

Bigbacon

iTrader: (4)

i have to check but I swear the 06 book says not to use synthetic also.

tmak26b

In the 06 DVD, they say synthetic oil was not tested, so they are not sure what it will do. I don't recall it saying synthetic is banned

ken-x8

I just checked the pdf versions of the '06 owner's manual and quick tips guide. Neither one says anything about synthetic. As far as I know, the only material Mazda provides to ownere that says to not use synthetic is the DVD. Did they even distribute that DVD to '04 owners?

Ken

MICHGoBlue

Mazda will win the BBB claim dispute, if they decide to play hardball.

I feel for you OP, but they will win.

It's YMMV when it comes to this kind of situation, some dealerships will cave in if you threaten them with a BBB claim or attorney, some dealerships will cave in if you overwhelm them with niceness and courtesy, it's your call how you approach this situation.

Razz1

Have you talked with MNAO?

or just the dealer?

TZ250

Contact MNAO first, and get a letter from MNAO denying the claim and stating the reason and basis for the denial.

If your manuals and warranty make specific statements about not using synthetic, you're done. But if they don't your claim will stick under Magnusson-Moss. One letter from an attorney will put a new engine in your car.

Don't mess with the BBB. They are supported by local businesses.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Check out this thread and talk to the OP of it.
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/dealerships-pushing-synthetic-oil-now-191095/

See if you can get someone from the dealer/MNAO who tells you that it isn't allowed, and then call up the dealer from this thread on conference call so they can hear another dealer pushing the synthetic. Record it if you can. Shake their ground a bit.

chaudrx7

Which dealership did you use? Is it being serviced here in Charleston SC? (I'm in North Charleston)

I've been using Stokes Mazda in North Charleston, and they've been fairly helpful. I just had mine in for some electrical issues, and they did a reflash and deflood with new plugs under the extended-extended warranty. I just put new plugs in and they even remembered to give me the "old-new" plugs back.

I agree with the others: deal with MNAO and use the language of the 04 Owner's Manual and the follow-up Extended Warranty. You'd think they would "haggle" a little. It is a "powertrain" warranty, and I do not believe they've done their diligence in proving negligence on your part.

DLASH15

Thanks for all the replies. Well I did talk to the Mazda 1800 line and the guy covering my case is named Al. There must only be like 10 people who answer the phones because I always get the same 3 people answering. Well I spoke with him, his supervisor, my regional service rep, the dealer and thats about it. All of them said they will not cover it and that I'm SOL and to go ahead and pursue legal action if I feel like it. I informed them that it doesn't state anything about synthetic being not allowed in my manual. They still told me that it's not recommended therefor I am denied. When I spoke with the service rep, he was very uneducated. I did inform him that under the magnuson-moss warranty act he has no right to do this. He said that that law is doesn't deal anything with this situation and that I'm misinformed. When I asked for documentation stating that this oil is not allowed and that I am denied Al told me that he can make me a header letter stating this. I told him I do not want a made up document, I want official already outlined papers. Apparently, Mazda has no such thing for owners because he told me that he doesn't have this.

MICHgoblue, How do you suppose that mazda would win the BBB claim? I cannot see any reason that they could. You cannot treat a customer like this. Especially when they follow the guidelines of their owners manual. I think they would be smart to settle now, or else I will take them to court for alot more than what I am asking for and I don't think they would have a leg to stand on.

Chaud, I am no longer in Chucktown. I did a lot of work with Stokes and I have had nothing but great experiences with them. I am currently in VA at Cavalier Mazda in Chesapeake. I didn't realize my location was still SC, sorry.

Another side not from the Magnuson-Moss, I also asked if they could show me the damage of the rotor housing so I can take pictures. The dealership told me that they are not aloud to to take it apart because the dealership nor corporate is not paying the labor hours for it. So tell e exactly how can they verify the actual problem is due to synthetic? hmm...

Razz1

Time to get a lawyer.

ZumnRx8

+1. & Good Point on your last post. How can they tell if they cant rip the engine apart. Also, dealers never take anything "apart" to fix it. All they do is read codes & "replace"... its more cost efficient for them to replace an engine rather than rebuilding which would be more time consuming + thier techs are probably not educated on rebuilding rotary engines.... only swapping. I have had a million things "replaced" in my 04...never "fixed". They send all swapped items back to JAPAN for rebuild.

Back on Track- I suggest a lawyer. Better to lose $$ on a case & at least try, than to take the Loss Not knowing if you could have won. If hiring a lawyer is going to put you in a DEEP DEBT you cannot afford then i suggest not to. GOOD LUCK.

The dealer is trying not to take the loss of replacing the engine + $$$ for Tech Pay....thats why they are Dicking you around.

MICHGoBlue

They'd be smart to just do the service, but in the court of laws, if it's in the manual that says do not use synthetic, then they have every right to deny a warranty if you indeed use synthetic oil.

If it's only on certain years of manuals, then you've got a fight. If it is indeed on all years, you're screwed if Mazda is persistent.

Since it's in the manual, it's not up to them to prove the engine lubricant caused the engine failure, but up to you to disprove the engine lubricant caused the engine failure.

I think you're confusing the logistics of warranty denial of DOT-Legal aftermarket parts with this matter, this matter is written and printed in the user's manual, while aftermarket parts aren't forementioned.

If this is really brought to court, and the judge orders you to choose an auto shop to get this issue examined, you will only be reimbursed if the 3rd party auto shop can prove the engine failure is caused by something else, which might be difficult to do. The failure to do so will end up with a much bigger bill that consist of an attorney, 3rd party auto shop bill, and your engine repair bill.

I hope it works out to your favor whichever way you decide to pursue this.

MICHGoBlue

Quiet the opposite, the dealership gets reimbursed by Mazda North America to do warranty work, everything from parts to labor.

The only times they deny warranty would be they're not sure if the claim is legitimate.

ZumnRx8

^what he said- thnx

ken-x8

IMHO, getting that letter from Mazda, saying the claim was denied because of synthetic oil, would be useful. Then your lawyer can reply with "Where does my client's owner's manual and warranty book say that?"

Yeah - I think it's lawyer time. BBB is kind of a crap shoot. Do you even know whether the local one is impartial and gives consumers a fair shot?

Ken

YaXMaNGTO

Make Bridgestone pay for your new engine? I'm kidding.

To be honest, you pretty much hosed yourself, man. Live and learn. Before going into a situation where you have to show proof, and there are a couple thousand dollars on the line, I would have researched the crap out of it, and found out others have been screwed over by showing that they used synthetic. Once you "rat-hole" to this point, and play the "lawyer-card", and start quoting the Mag Act, you can kiss your chances of negotiating this thing good-bye. You're now a liability, and you've popped up on enough radar screens that they won't back down.

I'm not saying you're not getting screwed. I think you are. It's ridiculous they're not honoring it. It's just you pushed them into a corner, and now it's easier for all involved to defer this to the lawyers. Now the lawyers will make the money.

Razz1

Case is black and white.

Its not in the owner manual. I have a 2004

Get a car lawyer and it will never go to court.

They will replace your engine.

YaXMaNGTO

Pretty much dead on... just negotiate with your lawyer up front how to MNAO will pay for your legal fees.